Have a 7mm-08 that I'm considering having bored to AI if the improvment is substantial enough. Anyone have one, or have knowledge of how much bang for the buck?

Thanks

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if the improvment is substantial enough.

It's not!

I don't know what parameters would go into you decision.
Worth is relative. If you've got money to burn, why not.

Do you expect to get better accuracy, rather, you might look at bedding or a trigger job, or reloading, or better dies, or better die prep.
Are you looking for greater velocity, why not go with a 280AI, 7mag, 7rum.
A 7-08 shooting a 140 gr. bullet is hard to beat on medium game. Twenty-eight hundred fps or so, is a fine velocity for shooting game. 3000 fps and above you'll see a lot of blood shot meat.

Recoil can be a factor as powder charge/velocity increases.

It may not be perfect, but there is a lot to like about a plain jane 7mm-08.
GWB

Not at all. The best candidates for benefiting from an AI change are ones with a lot of taper like the 7X57 and 257 Roberts. I have a 257 Rob AI and it definatley has a leg up on the standard case, it is every bit the equal of a 25-06. But I kind of wish I wold have just did a standard 257 sometimes. Anything based on the 308 will benefit very little because it is already too close too the same. I wouldnt bother.. You already have a great cartridge..

Not worth it because the 308 case is already fairly straight.

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Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
Not worth it because the 308 case is already fairly straight.

Moreso that the 7-08 SAAMI spec is already 61,000 PSI and increasing pressure in an AI case won't achieve much more.

In the case of the .257 Roberts the SAAMI spec for factory loads is 54,000 PSI and loading the "AI" verson to 65,000 is actually where the gains are.....not the increased capacity!

I agree with previous comments, to the effect that the 308 'family' of cases already has minimal case taper and a fairly sharp shoulder angle and reasonably high SAAMI pressure spec, so there's little to be gained.

Totally agree with the other posters. I have a 30-06AI, 35WheelenAI, and a 223AI. Happy with them. BUT I didnt have to pay much as my smith had the reamers and charged me an annotance fee to do it. Don't get me wrong. I like them, but at times it's a pain in the ass to form the brass. Standard loads in mine shoot very well. So thats a plus.

But really, there is nothing to gain in the 7-08 except maybe case longevity.

I appreciate all the input. I've been reading all I can also, and agree that the gain is 100 to 150 fps at best. No longer a consideration.

I have a 338-06 AI, and a .280 AI. Really like benefit in both of them, and will probably always want to tinker as long as it makes some sense. Not on this one!

Thanks,
TC

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nd agree that the gain is 100 to 150 fps at best. No longer a consideration.

It always amazes me when one discovers that the actual difference between the .30-06 and the .308 Winchester is 100-150 FPS that folks actually think by the addition of such a minuscule amount of capacity that they can gain the same.....and the difference between the .30-06 and .308 is significantly greater!

Even when one finally convinces someone that the "AI" version of just about anything is bogus we get the argument of case life.....and there's no data to justify this either!

Have you considered the .284? I bought a 7-08 to make that re-chamber, but it shot factory Hornady light mags into less than an inch and I lrft it alone. just an idea, capt david

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Originally posted by vapodog:

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nd agree that the gain is 100 to 150 fps at best. No longer a consideration.

It always amazes me when one discovers that the actual difference between the .30-06 and the .308 Winchester is 100-150 FPS that folks actually think by the addition of such a minuscule amount of capacity that they can gain the same.....and the difference between the .30-06 and .308 is significantly greater!

Even when one finally convinces someone that the "AI" version of just about anything is bogus we get the argument of case life.....and there's no data to justify this either!

As a AI fan I should disagree with ya...but I don't. For me it's just an extra bit of fun tinkering with a not so wildcat and a touch more velocity. Case life isn't an argument to go for it...but just a mere plus.

If my smith would have done my AI's (223, 30-06, 35Wheelen) for the pittance he did, I wouldn't have done it myself.

But, having them and shot them, I do enjoy.

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As a AI fan I should disagree with ya...but I don't. For me it's just an extra bit of fun tinkering with a not so wildcat and a touch more velocity. Case life isn't an argument to go for it...but just a mere plus.

As I have said I have more AIs and my own blown out shoulder forward wildcats than factory. That said unless you simply want to fool with an AI for the sake fo playing take the parent case load it to 65,000 and spend the $$$$$$ saving on more shooting time.

I love my 7-08 AI. I bought it already rechambered and have shot it as is. It has a 3.5lbs trigger pull, factory bedding, wood stock and factory everything else. It shoots less than 1/2" group at a hair under 3000fps with a 140 grain bullet. I don't know if I spend the money the previous gun owner did on this rifle, but I sure to love it. This is in an Abolt.

Compared to my buddies in a remington which is not an AI. His shoots well and at 2850 with one less grain of powder, same bullet. He enjoys his too.

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group at a hair under 3000fps with a 140 grain bullet. I don't know if I spend the money the previous gun owner did on this rifle, but I sure to love it. This is in an Abolt.

Compared to my buddies in a remington which is not an AI. His shoots well and at 2850 with one less grain of powder, same bullet. He enjoys his too.

Don't want to rain on anyones parade. However you could just as easy have a 150fps difference between two rifles and the same cartridge.

Do to the larger case in theory it should take and 7-08AI 1.5-2grs more powder to simply match a 7-08 velocity.

3000spf from a 7-08AI with a 140gr bullets means you are getting all the good out of it plus some. As comparison Federal lists 2990fps for a 140 in the 280.

If you are starting out with a new barrel, go ahead, but I wouldn't bother with rechambering a factory barrel. While my 7-08AI will shoot 3075fps with 140gr bullets and H414, it shoots much better with 50.0gr of IMR4831, H380, or IMR4350 at 2975fps (22" bbl). Everything is just as dead as it would be 100fps faster.

waste of time, money, more money, and unsellable wildcat at the end.

if you want bigger, do 284

net results? 50fps

Ditto for the 284! It rocks.

I had a 700 SS/BDL and a BDL Varmint, BOTH chopped to 21", BOTH shot 2900-2960 using Varget and 139/140s.

If I need more gun.........gonna 'Biggie size' the case.......to an '06 case at least.

Not much I need getting done that the above won't handle, but so will my 260 w/130 ABs at 2850 w/.488 bc......

I would hunt ANYTHING in NA with either, up to 400 yds....save Grizzly.

Shot placement matters more than a few extra fps, and at any range beyond PBR, one must hold over, use a ranging reticle, or click.

250 and 243s make more sense to AI - IMO, but if more for case trimming..never had that issue in 7-08 std. nor in 260.

I partial size everything FWIW.

I'm able to push a Hornady 139gr SST to 2975fps in my 1989 7mm-08 Rem Mtn Rifle w/a 22" barrel. Have done it for several years now, with no pressure signs. Can't see any reason to need to AI this load.

I'm not going to do anything to it. One of the custom rifle mfg. co. (Jarett) talks highly of the 7-08 AI, but with all things considered, I'm gonna leave her alone.

The rifle is a Winchester Mod. 70 Extreme Weather, and I did order a custom stock from McMillan (the Sako Hunter with palm swells), and a Jewel trigger. I adjusted the stock trigger, and didn't get what I wanted, but will probably keep tinkering right up until time to put the new one in and see if I can get it lightend up to around 2.5 lbs. That's about where I like my hunting rifle triggers, but the book claims only able to get down to 3.5 with factory adjustments.

Think it's gonna be a great shooter. Zeiss Conquest 3X9 with 4A reticle on top.

I agree that if I can get 2850 to 2950 fps. Thats enough for any hunting I will be doing with it, and if I want to shoot heavier loads, I should be able to get 2650 to 2750. Great caliber, easy to shoot. I may try to find a good trigger man to tweak the factory trigger. Send the Jewel back and save some money if possible. Any suggestions?

Never had any issues w/old style triggers.

No advice to offer on the new ones - sorry.

I do believe you will have ample power and trajectotry w/smooth feeding, and no loss of speed w/factory ammo if you ever needed some in a pinch (as I believe you LOSE speed using factory ammo in the AI chambers).

Nice scope choice AND love the #4s.

Enjoy.

I've never seen a deer that could withstand a shot from my standard 7mm-08!

Therefore, I don't see the need to switch to the Ackley Improved version.

Ackley himself rarely liked the results from his improvement formula, especially so for cartridges that started with a short neck and nearly straight body. That would include anything based on a .308 case.

IF a .30-06 is loaded to the same pressure as a .308 the difference can be significant.

For rechambering your 7-08, have you thought about the 7mm WSM or the Rem 7mm SAUM? Both are capable of 3100+ with a 140 gr bullet.

I know nothing about the Winchester trigger but it they say the bottom limit is 3.5#, I think I'd not go below that. One of Remington's problems with their trigger was caused by folks trying to bubbaize it below a reasonable pull. IMO, a crisp trigger set up to break cleanly at 3.5# is an excellent start to a good hunt.

Do it only if you want to.

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7mm-08 vs 7mm-08 AI is it a worthwhile, or not?

Only if the barrel is shot out and you were going to rebarrel anyway.

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Only if the barrel is shot out and you were going to rebarrel anyway.

not even then!

Everybody has a different definition of worthwhile. For me, it is worthwhile and I am having a rifle built now in 7mm-08 improved. It's going to be a little different than what most people consider 7mm-08 Ackley. The chamber will have a 33 degree shoulder and have slightly tighter dimensions at the base (.470) and the neck (.315). I have a batch a Remington brass that has a base of .466 and a loaded neck diameter of .311, so the chamber won't be too tight.

I like tinkering with rifles and I'm looking forward to it being complete so I can start working up some loads and then take it deer hunting next season. It will be on a Remington 700 action and will have a 23" Hart barrel in the standard Remington sporter contour. I've got a Leupold 2x7 I will be putting on it.

Get yourself a 7mm SAUM think 280AI in a short action. Brass is still available and rifles are really cheap. Yeah its a dead cartridge but mine feeds really well and its very accurate

I have a 260ai, love the round, but the perf adv is very small, maybe 50fps. The only reason to consider it was I was having a rebarrel anyway, so no extra cost. Little downside to it, you can still use std ammo & load it on std neck dies.

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I've never seen a deer that could withstand a shot from my standard 7mm-08!

I've never seen a deer that could tell any difference between my .243 and .30-06!

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Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

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I've never seen a deer that could withstand a shot from my standard 7mm-08!

I've never seen a deer that could tell any difference between my .243 and .30-06!

Well, I know several hunters that would disagree on that one.

First let me say I have a 7-08 Ackley and am very pleased with it for a number of reasons. I like not having to trim my brass very often, and like the fact that it lowers the rearward bolt thrust, I like the fact that you can safely get a little more out of it, and I also like the way they look. Now there are some draw backs, you will be paying two, to two and half times more for your reloading dies, and unless you are going to have to rent or buy a chamber reamer anyway, you have that cost. I barreled up my action and was going to have to rent or buy a reamer anyway so I chose to build the Ackley Improved version of the 7-08. Now to take a standard rifle in 7-08 and pay someone to set the barrel back and rechamber it to 7-08 Ackley is going to cost you 150.00 or more, not sure of the going rate these days, and a set of dies for it another 70.00 and up I don't think it is worth it for the little gain you will get out of it in performance, but that is up to who ever is paying the bill to decide.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:

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group at a hair under 3000fps with a 140 grain bullet. I don't know if I spend the money the previous gun owner did on this rifle, but I sure to love it. This is in an Abolt.

Compared to my buddies in a remington which is not an AI. His shoots well and at 2850 with one less grain of powder, same bullet. He enjoys his too.

Don't want to rain on anyones parade. However you could just as easy have a 150fps difference between two rifles and the same cartridge.

Do to the larger case in theory it should take and 7-08AI 1.5-2grs more powder to simply match a 7-08 velocity.

3000spf from a 7-08AI with a 140gr bullets means you are getting all the good out of it plus some. As comparison Federal lists 2990fps for a 140 in the 280.

I haven't pushed the velocity on this gun yet. I have plenty of room in the case for more powder but really, I am happy with what it's doing now. When I originally loaded for this gun I started at 41 grains of RL 15 and worked my way up to 44. 44 was the most accurate, so that's what I choose.

Last night I loaded up some Hornady SST 154 bullets and I plan on shooting them as well. Just for kicks and to see what kind of accuracy and velocity it gets.

I may try some H4350 or RL 19, but we will see.

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Originally posted by mad_jack02:
First let me say I have a 7-08 Ackley and am very pleased with it for a number of reasons. I like not having to trim my brass very often, and like the fact that it lowers the rearward bolt thrust, I like the fact that you can safely get a little more out of it, and I also like the way they look. Now there are some draw backs, you will be paying two, to two and half times more for your reloading dies, and unless you are going to have to rent or buy a chamber reamer anyway, you have that cost. I barreled up my action and was going to have to rent or buy a reamer anyway so I chose to build the Ackley Improved version of the 7-08. Now to take a standard rifle in 7-08 and pay someone to set the barrel back and rechamber it to 7-08 Ackley is going to cost you 150.00 or more, not sure of the going rate these days, and a set of dies for it another 70.00 and up I don't think it is worth it for the little gain you will get out of it in performance, but that is up to who ever is paying the bill to decide.

I would not spend the money to make my 7-08 rifle an AI. Mine came like that so I was lucky I guess. Some may disagree.

Dies cost me around $130 through RCBS. They made them after I provided them with 5 shot shells from my gun.

The brass does last a very long time. I loose it before I split a neck.

Last night when I was prepping brass I measured about half of the brass. They were all just short of MAX OAL with one being slightly too short. Don't know how that happened.

Complete waste of funds for that one. it's a great round just as is. If I wanted more from the 7, I would go to the .280 AI.

I have a 7mm 08 and a 280 AI. I love both rifles and shoot them very well. But I hardly use the 280AI now a days. I find the 7mm08 Kimber montana a real joy to carry in the bush thought it does not point naturally at the target like the Sako Finbear.

If you really want a flat shooting 7mm08, I would suggest going to a 120gr TSX bullet at 3100 fps or a bit more. That would give you adequate performance on large deer out to 400 meters if you can shoot accurately at that range.

The other option is to rechamber to a 7mm SARUM or WSM.

No doubt a 7/08 will run 120s at 3050-3100, and 130s and maybe 100 less, and 140s will run 2900-2950. I don't have #s in front of me, but the 'Need to chase Speed' I think is over rated.

I think a 140 will serve most very well if it has a decent BC as a good Noz BT or AB has, or even Hornady's fine 139s....for less recoil the 120 BT or TTSX work fine, but don't forget you sacrifice BC, and at some point, speed drops back faster and trajectory.

MANY rounds despite bullet wts. shoot w/in 1-3" of each other at 400 yds w/a 200yd zero.

Most game I believe is shot under 400 yds...likely 80-85% under 250-300, if not more.

I see a place for the 120s in the 7/08, but I think some underestimate how flat 130-140s fly, even 154-162s if launched in 22-24" bbls w/good powder. If shots VERY long are a possibility, I'd take the extra lead that carries momentum further, as it just might come in handy and not be much of any .... 'handicap.'

Think about it, ANY/ALL shots approaching 400 or + will often require Ranging and likely clicking turrets to be consistently hitting vitals IMO. Heavier wt. favors much better energy retention AND trajectory and wind drift...something to ponder.

Run the #s and decide what's best for your situation/needs.

http://www.biggameinfo.com/ind...page=%2fbalcalc.ascx