I'm posting this in the Medium Bores so as to avoid the ".700 N.E.!" responses.
In your view, which is the smallest caliber that can reasonably be considered a "heavy" to be taken against thick skinned game such as buffalo, giraffe, and elephant, ignoring the legal minimums?
Better yet: which is the smallest caliber you have taken against the bigger game?

My smallest against biggest was the .30-06 on eland.
The general consensus here seems to be the .375 again; or at least a .300 magnum.

My view on the smallest caliber to be realistically taken against bigger i.e. thick skinned game is the 9,3x62 (or 9,3x74R). I know this has been used plenty of times with success against all the big game up to and including elephant.

The .338 magnum(s) could probably be considered to be in about the same class at least energy-wise. The bullet diameter and weight are quite a bit less, however.

In Safari Rifles (1st Ed.), Boddington recalls a fella asking about taking the .35 Whelen against buffalo as his wife was looking for a buffalo rifle with little recoil.
Although Boddington didn't really advocate it, he thought it to be sufficient.
Personally, this is exactly where I draw the line: the 9,3x62 is still adequate, the .35 Whelen is not. The limit goes somewhere and in my uneducated armchair-theorist's opinion it goes right smack inbetween those two.
The .358 Norma magnum is a different story altogether being rather closer to the .375 H&H in my opinion than to the 9,3x62.

To elaborate on this thought: with solids or very premium bullets like Barnes TSX, would you go so low as to the .338 magnums as "heavy" rifle?
I'll tell you, when shooting my giraffe I used the PH's .416 Rem.mag and I was very happy I didn't opt for the .375!
Basically, though, I'm recoil-shy and I'd like to have some views as to how low one could go (legal limits aside) if one wanted to take buffalo or even elephant.

- Lars/Finland

quote:

In your view, which is the smallest caliber that can reasonably be considered a "heavy" to be taken against thick skinned game such as buffalo, giraffe, and elephant, ignoring the legal minimums?

Assuming I can get the correct bullet for the cartridge, IMO it's the .338-06....not that that's my choice.....but that it's as small as I'd go.

We all know that DG has been had with less..... However I've been there.....and I won't go there again with anything less than a .338-06 and would far prefer a .375! I doubt any PH would guide you with anything less than a 9.3 X 62 however!

I'm not really interested in using the smallest cartridge that I can for anything so I'd say the 375H&H

I remember Robert Ruark's quote to "Use Enough Gun".

So I, like Fjold, am not intersted in using the smallest possible! Think, with the proper combination of solids and expanding bullets, my 9,3x62 would be my lower limit.

quote:

In your view, which is the smallest caliber that can reasonably be considered a "heavy" to be taken against thick skinned game such as buffalo, giraffe

You noticed I quit your quote at Giraffe although they're not particularly hard to kill; just hard to place the bullet in the correct spot ..... and Buffalo is another Kettle of Fish altogether.

I've been to RSA & Namibia 11 times total and that also qualifies as a "helper"/"guest" at Ranches/Farms for up to several months at a time. I'm not a Professional by any stretch of African imagination but have been in on the taking of LOTS of African game. Funny, most of the locals use whatever-the-F**K they have on hand; 308 Win., 270 Win., .30/06 Sprg., 8x57IS,

I've been party to good hunters (both Men & Women) with .308 Winchesters, .270 Winchesters & 7x64 Brennekes who take all manner of game (legally). It's just a matter of where they stick a good bullet (premium brand or not). Good game shots do well and "All Others" don't; regardless of the size of the Bore.

For heavy game; .375H&H, or a 9.3, either 62 or 74R is IMO the minimum for the average Mr. Big Game Shooter. If you can handle & shoot the rifle - bigger is (always) better.

If you're considering yourself a "One Rifle" kinda fellow; then a .30/06 Sprg. may be right; just not legal. IMO this may also not be legal and also implies that a "Hunter" can put the bullet-oe in the correct spot.

The biggest caliber I have any real interest in is 9.3x62. It packs a good punch on game without getting meat on both ends.

There is nothing wrong with the 30-06 if one remembers its reputation for penetration was made with 220 grain bullets, however, it falls short where frontal area is concerned. The 35 Whelen doesn't come anywhere close to the 30-06 or 338s in regards to sectional density, but it does have frontal area approaching that of the 9.3.
That said, the 9.3X62 is about the smallest biggie I'd place confidence in. I would feel much better with a 338 Winchester or 375 H&H when hunting under conditions where I could become supper, but my personal choice would be the 416 Rigby.

legally? 9,3x74 or 9,3x62
376 steyr..

so, .366

seriously, not being a numbshoulder bigbore shooter .. a 375 (ruger, hh, steyr, whelen) doesn't kick very much .. less than a light 12ga, for certain

another 375 H+H as the smallest heavy.

I would say for anything dangerous, the 9.3x62 should be the smallest you take. Best for the recoil would go to the 404 jeffery.

If someone has downed a few elephants, and is really good under pressure, you could get away with a 308 with a 147FMJ. Seems to work in Kenya.

John

35 whelen is what i'd look at.

Just my 2cents

.35 Whelen good for most big N.A.game anything larger, .375 Cheytac for the rest out to 2500m effective kill zone.

I'm not a big 375 Ruger fan, but for a light heavy that is what I would go with. Fits in a 30-06 length action, medium weight, can be loaded down for practice and deer/plains game but when loaded to normal velocities is legal everywhere for DG, has a bit more punch than a 9.3 and it's doubtful the added recoil would be noticed.

On the theory that one should always have a rifle that is capable of "takin' care of business" if necessary, the smallest chambering I've taken to Africa is 9,3x62.

Rifle are light and handy. 9,3x62 is more effective than the numbers would indicate.

For DG only, minimum would be a .375 Ruger or H&H. Next time I go I'll take a .416 Rigby and a .458 AR or a .458 AR and a .470 DR.

(Was REALLY impressed by the effectiveness of the .458 AR!)

quote:

Funny, most of the locals use whatever-the-F**K they have on hand; 308 Win., 270 Win., .30/06 Sprg., 8x57IS,

The question in this thread is really upside down and this quote is accurate but needs context. Yes, locals use whatever they can get their hands on, 303, shotgun slug, etc. But they always take the BIGGEST thing that they can get their hands on.

For buffalo, I would grab the 416 Rigby before a 375 Ruger, assuming they were both accurate with good bullets.

How small depends on ability to pass up a marginal shot. If you can wait for a stable, perfect shot, no twigs on route to target, almost any calibre producing over 2000 ftlbs. will drop a buffalo. Locals can afford to wait for such a shot, though they don't always do so. The 303 has probably wounded more buffalo than any other calibre in Africa.

BAck to experience--I'm partial to the 338 WM as a 'can do if needed, and if careful' calibre. Jim Carmichael has referred to a couple of his buffalo with 338WM in several articles over the years (se his "three cartridges to hunt the world"). I've also dropped Mr. Nyati with a 338WM. But I recommend a 416 (any make, though handloaded Rigbys preferred).

I would say the 30/06 or the 257 wby. I mean your aiming for the heart.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Next time I go I'll take a .416 Rigby and a .458 AR or a .458 AR and a .470 DR.

(Was REALLY impressed by the effectiveness of the .458 AR!)

THANKS Mike .. I was amazingly complimented when the Ruger/Hornady line came out, along the same design concept as my ARs!

Jeffe,

You should be very proud of that work! Concept has very much been proven

.458 AR has a place in my TuffPack for sure.

Wish I could have built a .470 AR as well. The .470 AR bolt rifle and a .470 NE would be a wonderful combination too!

The smallest heavy would be the biggest,most powerful cartridge that I could comfortably and confidently handle, especially if it bites, gores, or tramples. roger

In my experience what locals use is irrelevant. They can come another day and aren't necessarily paying trophy fees on wounded stuff that gets away. There budget tends to be less than travelling sport hunters too. Also they usually aren't trophy hunters so volley fire is considered acceptable.

The PH I hunted with in the Limpopo used his 9,3x62 for buffalo. We only hunted smaller plains game, but I asked him if he would consider my 358 Norma adequate for buff, should the opportunity arise on a later occasion, as this is the heaviest rifle I currently own. He said sure enough, providing good bullets. For elephant, on the other hand, I would absolutely not consider anything less than a 375, even if I had to borrow one.

338 to 35cal ... both can scoot a 300gr out the barrel at suitable speeds in both solid/soft configuration. Once you drop below about 250/275gr in bullet weight, I feel the boundaries are being stretched excessively.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
The biggest caliber I have any real interest in is 9.3x62. It packs a good punch on game without getting meat on both ends.

That would be my minimum, but I prefer my 404jeffery.

9.3x62...