Everything on the planet has been killed by the 7x57 by someone somewhere at least once. And a .30-06 will certainly kill elk.

But I decided some time ago that for anything in this size range I would always opt for a .338 Win Mag or 9.3x62 depending on the terrain and likely max shooting distance.

On game over 600 pounds, a less than ideal shot with an '06 will lead to a long tracking job with what may be a minimal blood trail. A caliber that makes a bigger hole will lead to faster bleed out, shorter distance traveled, and much easier to follow blood trail.

I've witnessed 4 blue wildebeests shot in South Africa. All similarly hit through the front shoulders 1/3 of the way up into the chest. One was hit with a 9.3x62. It went about 60 yards and left a blood trail Ray Charles could follow. The other 3 were killed with 180gr '06. One went 200yds, one 400yds, and one was never found. None of the blood trails were generous enough for easy tracking.

I have also killed zebra and greater kudu with the 9.3 and neither made it as far as the wildebeest.

So, do what you want - but I will save calibers .30-06 and down for game like mule deer and down (<600 lbs).

quote:

Originally posted by Norseman:
I need it, ...bigger is better and faster is even better.

Amen and pass the ammunition.

SmokinJ you did not get involved in this conversation till you saw a chance to poke at me using that mention of the 44 in your response.

I don't blame anything on you, you are a waste of space.

Too funny!!

Give me a shooter who can handle the fast .338's instinctively and shoots enough with them to maintain those skills, I will pick them everytime over the smaller chamberings shot by the same man. Particularly in dangerous game country, whether he is hunting that dangerous animal or not. A fast .338 bullet 225 grain up to 250 grains pushed from 2900 to 3100 fps used by someone who can truly handle it is a better killer than a smaller slower bullet given the same placement. Good shooting.

[quote]On game over 600 pounds, a less than ideal shot with an '06 will lead to a long tracking job with what may be a minimal blood trail. A caliber that makes a bigger hole will lead to faster bleed out, shorter distance traveled, and much easier to follow blood trail.Brazos Jack---If you have less than an ideal shot--you PASS the shot. A bigger gun does not make the kill zone larger. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter the size of the magnum. The guy at the gun counter that told you otherwise was lying.

quote:

Brazos Jack---If you have less than an ideal shot--you PASS the shot. A bigger gun does not make the kill zone larger. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter the size of the magnum. The guy at the gun counter that told you otherwise was lying.

Carpetman1,
Please read my post again. All shots I described should have hit the heart but did not. Lung only but mortal wounds. Any meat hunters who shoot just behind the shoulder to save meat damage, guarantee that they won't come within 6" of the heart. A large, tough animal 6 or more times larger than the average 125lb white tail may travel a long way with an '06 (or .300 mag) hole through its lungs. A larger caliber hole will lead to more rapid bleed out and a shorter death run every time, all else being equal.

Being an Elmer Keith type, I'd rather be shooting a 338 than a 300 mag when Elk, Moose, or Bear hunting.

quote:

A bad shot is a bad shot no matter the size of the magnum. The guy at the gun counter that told you otherwise was lying.

You are absolutely corerect with that, but some times even what looks like a perfect shoot does not always go the way the shooter planned.

A few years back I hit a whitetail buck at a little over 40 yards with a 250 grain Barnes "X" out of my 375 H&H.

At the shot chunks of tissue flew all over the cedar bush the deer was standing in front of, he clamped his tail to his ass and took off.

He ran approximately 60 yards, went off a 20 foot+ high bank and ended up with his nose in the water of a small creek.

When I cut his chest cavity open the whole top third of his heart was gone as was a signifigant portion of both lungs, but the animal was dead and there was a damn good blood trail for me to follow.

Too many hunters these days are hooked up with the so called DRT crap.

In 40+ years of hunting, the only DRT's I have made or seen were ones where either the neck/head or spinal column were hit.

The larger rifles allow a person that knows how to use them to take less than perfect shots.

I don't care what other peoples goals are, but when I pull the trigger I want to try and get the animal down as quickly as possible so I can finish the job and tracking something a few yards or even a hundred yards does not bother me.

In that 40+ years I know of only ONE animal that I hit and lost.

I LOVE the way a .338 WM works on elk. A good 250gr load works incredibly well.

I would give up several others before I'd give up the .338.

quote:

You are absolutely corerect with that, but some times even what looks like a perfect shoot does not always go the way the shooter planned.

Hunting Elk in wild country isn't the same as shooting whitetails, from a blind, off a bench, over a feeder.
They don't stand there with targets on them, begging to be put in the freezer. They are caution, wilie critters that have been bugled, poked, and smoked for 3 months before you hit the field with your rifle. This is a great combination for things to go not as you expected. When the shot does go wrong, and if you take enough of them in wild counrty, more then one will, that premium bullet with the large frontal area can be the difference between meat in the freezer, and several hours of tracking that end in disappointment.

With all due respect ANY Caliber will Kill eventually !. Some people have different interpretations of killing and killing humanely !.

Take a Hefty Buck Muley as an example . Some folks shoot them with .224 , some use .243 others use 6.5mm .270 7mm an on an on .

Which does a more humane killing ?..224 .243 7mm 30/30 .308 30/06 .338 Lupa or WM . Now a properly placed shot from a .22 rim fire from 3 Ft. away will kill it ,humanely not IMO . An I've only gotten within 20 Ft. of a Mule deer once in my life , an I'm sure quite by accident !.

I've seen a Large Elk take two 30/06 rounds to kill it an that first shot was on the money well within range . Would a .338 WM have killed it in one ? I'll never know as no one had one on that hunt ?!.

With today's optics an Rifle accuracy coupled with bullet selections ,I doubt anything except African DG can be brought down by a 7mm .308 30/06 . A need for .338 Mags ?

Just the same I'll keep mine along with my H&H 375 one never knows when Cans will need killing !!!.

True,but the lesser power rifles still do just fine for elk. It depends in part on how one hunts, and which shots they are willing to take.

I have not shot more elk than anyone else here, but I bave shot my share...including as many as 10 or more per year a couple or so years...none from a "stand" or bench. I have never used anything more for elk than a .30 pushing a 200 gr. NP at about 2,750 fps, and it has always been plenty. So has the 7x65-R and the plain vanilla .270 Win.

Nothing wrong with the .338 WM but I really have not found it necessary in my South-48 experience. As long as the cartridge is adequate for the ability of the shooter and his hunting situations, and is used responsibly, everything should be copacetic.

More power isn't bad, just not required.

Brazos Jack--Perhaps you were saying one thing and I was thinking another? By a less than ideal shot you meant it didn't hit ideally (plan didn't work). That's one thing happens to us all. If you meant the animal was in bad posistion--an iffy shot--you should pass. It is easy to believe so and so gun did the job and anything less wouldn't have. Pure speculation. Only thing certain is you don't know until after you pull the trigger.

338s are just a good excuse to not have a 35 Whelen....oh shit I own a Whelen and two 338s.

Let me rephrase that.

338s are just a good excuse to not own a 9.3.....but who needs a 9.3 when you can shoot a 375.

Let me rephrase that.

Buy what you want. Shoot what you want. Just make sure it can kill what you are shooting at in case it bites back.

Barstooler

Yep,

Shoot what you like, like what you shoot. But most importantly, hit what you are aiming at.

In my opinion, every responsible gun owner that lives in the lower 48 should own at least one 338 caliber rifle. Of course I live in Texas, and you need a big caliber to protect yourself from the Chupacabras.

I live and hunt in California. Do I need a 338? But I have one. The time will come and I will make a trip way up North. I will have confidence of having used it down here. I also think a 338 is like all the 458's sold. They are dream rifles.

I own a 338. Do I need one? No, but I think it is the best all around caliber. I think a 270 would kill anything in NA if you hit the right spot. The problem is that I don't always shoot as accurately as my equipment is capable of. In those instances the 338 makes up for my flaws. Now I may have to correct myself and ask, do I need one? In some instances, yes.

I hunted in Africa and one of the hunters was using a 270. He wounded a Blue Wildebeest and never recovered it. If he would have hit the animal in the same spot with a 338, he most likely would have recovered it. That is why I have a 338.

I know a guy that rolled over a grizzly with one shot at 400+ yards with a 308 winchester. Granted he was shooting full metal jackets and got penetration.

I haven't hunted grizzlies, but would prefer a tough 200 grain bullet moving about 3000 fps.

the 338 is fine for a lady's caliber .. heck, i've been known to use a 7x64 from time to time ..

facts being what they are, there is NO decernable recoil difference in a 30win vs a 338 win .. and a bigger bullet is always better...

of course, some recoil WHIMPS might complain about the kick .. but, frankly, you need to grow up and become experienced with what recoil is .. a 338 winmag.. or a 375 winmag (which I was shooting to sight in from the bench last weekend) kicks FAR closer to a 30-06 than any .416 .. and a .416 is just a heavy medium.

pull up your big girl panties and quit whining about recoil, roger

As I recall, Roger's question was about NEEDING a .338 Win Mag for use IN THE SOUTH 48, not in Alaska, Africa, etc.

So even though I have had a Sako Safari-Grade .338WM for the last 32 years, I answered that I don't need one where he mentioned, and I still feel that way.

Nowadays however I'm starting to re-think that question. I'm almost ready to believe that everyone who lives in a southern border state should be inducted into the military, given heavy weapons platoon infantry training, then issued a Ma Deuce and a couple of jeep loads of ammo, and sent home to protect themselves and their legitimate resident neighbors. Interlocking fields of fire...great border security... Oh, and that includes all the women too, not just the males.

I am truly weary of seeing my old southern AZ hunting areas littered with cowardly federal government installed signs warning that it is no longer safe for anyone to venture there, including U.S. citizens. I'm starting to like the idea of a reversed version of the Berlin Wall. To keep OUT of America everyone without permission to legally be here , not to keep them in.

And I wouldn't be too surprised if in the long run that didn't make America a hell of a lot safer than will bankrupting the country to pursue military adventures in Af'stan, Iraq, north Africa, and God only knows where else. Perhaps we should let them settle their own problems on their own dime and with their own blood, while we settle OURS.

AC, if we had more guys with your common sense in North America, the entire world would be far better off!!!

I just watched the rather overblown and historically falsified movie, "Passchendaele" the other night and what you have posted is exactly what was in my mind as I watched the quite good depiction of the horrific final days when we Canadians finally took the remains of the village and the ridge itself.

The B.E.F. lost 440, 000 of our finest young men there; my maternal grandfather was badly wounded and died young as a result. When I look at Canada and the USA now, with the demands by various groups of foreigners we have allowed into our nations, I am not sure whether to weep or puke!

WHY, should WE bleed for a bunch of foreigners in their own nations who cannot seem to solve their own problems? They did not want the advantages of British rule post-WWII, so, fu*k 'em all, let the bastards kill each other off!

Get out of the vile, corrupt UN and make NATO into what it used to be and not another version of the UN and look after our own problems!

Not to turn this thread to a political one but it looks like it might be headed that way. I really can't agree more. I've been bitching about this for 18 months to my friends. We spend all the time money and lives in the Middle East and ignore the drug cartels and corruption in Mexico that is spilling in to the border states and killing American citizens.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
...We spend all the time money and lives in the Middle East and ignore the drug cartels and corruption in Mexico that is spilling in to the border states and killing American citizens.

But..., 80% of them(Illegals too, with the Motor-Voter Bills) Vote for the DEMOCRATS, so why would the obummer fools want to keep them away?

You can get along very nicely without one. I use mine for everything anymore since I am a very busy man and don't have time for a lot of messing around. One well tuned rifle and load for me until my situation changes.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
You can get along very nicely without one. I use mine for everything anymore since I am a very busy man and don't have time for a lot of messing around. One well tuned rifle and load for me until my situation changes.

If you live long enough, God willing, it will change.
40 years ago I would enjoy putting 100 rounds through a 30-06 in a day at the range; NOT TODAY. Perhaps a 6.5 x55 at best. .338??? Shine it on. I guess Jeff is right about wussess.
AC! control what you can in life, express your opinion freely and than let it go. We want you around for some time and not have stress deprive us of your wisdom. roger

The big bears?...yes...you go "Ueberbewaffnet" for 1000 lb meat grinders....everything else, your 7x57 will do....JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
You can get along very nicely without one. I use mine for everything anymore since I am a very busy man and don't have time for a lot of messing around. One well tuned rifle and load for me until my situation changes.

If you live long enough, God willing, it will change.
40 years ago I would enjoy putting 100 rounds through a 30-06 in a day at the range; NOT TODAY. Perhaps a 6.5 x55 at best. .338??? Shine it on. I guess Jeff is right about wussess.
AC! control what you can in life, express your opinion freely and than let it go. We want you around for some time and not have stress deprive us of your wisdom. roger

No sweat, Roger. I expressed it and that is the end of it here. It is NOT my intent to hijack the thread. And I won't have coronary today, I hope.

I agree with Barstooler....338 is just a whimpy reason not to own a 35 whelen...just kidding guys...Like my 35 but my 357 mag rifle kills whitetail DRT so why the Whelen...fun
thats what it is all about....STRESS Relief that is FUN....my 2cents

Well I need mine...


It is my only bolt action rifle!

Sure, why not? I think the 34 bores are great for lek size game, better than comperable 30s. They also work fine on smaller game, little downside to using one.

The 338 and 35 Whelen have one important place not as easily filled by the 30-06 as many think and thats thick timber hunting for elk. I have used all three in this pursuit and the bigger bores leave better shorter blood trails.

No doubt the .338 WM is an effective elk round in heavy timber. Not required, though.

The last 6 elk I have killed in heavy timber were done in with .30 or smaller bores.

The biggest (a nice 340 typical 6x6) was slain with a 180 gr. NP .30 through the R front shoulder, on through the chest and out the other side. One shot; he ran maybe 15 yards downhill at most. The smallest (a raghorn 6x6) was shot with the same load while lying in his bed in a little patch of sun no bigger than he was...solid brush and timber completely around him. He was "ground sluiced" from the very top of the next ridge over. That's how that particular micro-area is most productively hunted. Sneak along the crown of one ridgeline early in the a.m., looking slowly and carefully at the tops and flanks of the ridges parallel on either side. One shot, he jumped straight into the air at impact, fell back in his bed, never even visibly twitched again.

The other 4 were killed on the dead run at maybe 25 yards, all with the 7x65-R (weaker .280 Rem equivalent) with heavy (ca 180 grs) H-Mantle bullets fired from a Ruger No.1 as they crossed through a small opening on another ridge top in a different state.

Yes, you CAN operate a Ruger No.1 FAST if you practice enough with it. Anyhow, all four were hit in the same place...right where the bottom third of the neck joins the chest cavity, thus ripping out all sorts of major arterial ductwork and putting blood everywhere.

All were one-shot kills...None of the 4 fell flat instantly, as they were running flat-out when shot, but they all were on the ground within 5-10 yards straight ahead of where they each had been when hit. No trouble finding them...you could almost have conoed to them up the river of blood they each lost.

ALL the meat, incidentally, went to poor families in dire need of the food. I got it cut, wrapped, and frozen, and delivered it myself to them.

I still like the .338WM fine, but I don't really NEED it for the south 48.

None of us NEED any more than a 270/308/30-06, but wouldn't it be one hell of a dull place if we were not able to have a choice?

How many of you are ready or willing to give up the ability to have other calibers to choose from?

Hell, if your a real hunter, gthere is not one single wild animal in ALL of North America that can not be killed with a single brain shot from a 243 at 50 yards or less. How much fun would this site be if all we did was talk about which bullet and what load to use for the perfect 50 yard brain shot on brown bears?

Isw a 338 or 340 Weatherby or 375 absolutely necessary for ANY north American Big Game, hell no, but is sure as hell fun to hunt with such rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Isw a 338 or 340 Weatherby or 375 absolutely necessary for ANY north American Big Game, hell no, but is sure as hell fun to hunt with such rifles.

10-4 & AC-2 roger

Just so nobody misunderstands where I am coming from...I never for a second was suggesting no-one should own or use a .338 WM. Was just addressing the question as originally phrased.

I don't plan on giving up MY .338 WM. Don't even plan to get a weaker-kneed version such as a .338-06, though there is certainly nothing wrong with one of those either. (Well, maybe I lie a little when I say that I won't get a weaker one...I wouldn't mind having a .338 Federal just for fun.)

And speaking of fun...maybe there IS a need for the .338WM in the south 48...to provide the warm, fuzzy, feeling I get out of having one, even though I almost never use it for hunting down here. Don't need any more justification than that, eh?

I hear they have some pretty BIG Rabbits where you are now. 338WinMag would work on them - with the right Bullet.

quote:

And speaking of fun...maybe there IS a need for the .338WM in the south 48...to provide the warm, fuzzy, feeling I get out of having one, even though I almost never use it for hunting down here. Don't need any more justification than that, eh?

Actually around these forums I find I need two of the 338's to survive the stress. One of the WM variety to say I have one and one of the '06 variety to do all my lower 48, Alaska, Africa and NWT hunting from hogs to brown bear, gotta luv the 338-06!