I was planning to try some 150gr Nosler BT in my 7mag, but read some reviews which suggested they might be too frangiable. I have no personal experience with Ballistic tips on paper or game and I am looking for a flat shooting load for deer only. My rifle (Ruger 77) doesn't like the 140ish bullet weights. Any experience with ballistic tips or alternatives would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
I was planning to try some 150gr Nosler BT in my 7mag, but read some reviews which suggested they might be too frangiable. I have no personal experience with Ballistic tips on paper or game and I am looking for a flat shooting load for deer only. My rifle (Ruger 77) doesn't like the 140ish bullet weights. Any experience with ballistic tips or alternatives would be appreciated.

Why not try the Hornady 154gr Interbond?

This .284" 139gr Interbond struck a large (42" heart girth)doe quartering on @ 25yds. The mv was 3250 fps. It stuck & penetrated the scapula, penetrated the lungs, liver, stomach, intestines & hind quarter coming to rest next to the femur just under the skin.

Weight retention was 86% & the mushroom was nearly 3/4" across.


In this shot you can see that the lead core remanied bonded to the jacket to the edges of the "petals".



Notice the concave base where the violent impact/expansion tried to pull the bonded core out of the jacket.



It appears that the angle that the bullet struck the scapula may have resulted in the lopsided mushroom.

IMO, this is perfect bullet performance. Had it not had the penetrate the nearly 3' diagonal body mass after srtiking bone on impact, it would have been a complete pass-through.

The bullet still expands well @ longer ranges & I have shot several bucks @ 240-275yds & they haven't went more than 10yds after being hit. Most are DRT on broadside hits & drop in there tracks

I have shot the 150 gr. nos BT for a couple of years, in a fairly mild loading of 59.5 grs. of 4350. In my opinion, the 7mm mag shoots too fast for these, and I'm currently looking for my next bullet. (I also shoot the 140 gr. BT in my 7mm08 with much less meat damage). In the 7mm mag, they do break up to some degree, but all have had an impressive exit despite this. What does bother me is the massive meat damage that they cause. I am also used to animals being DRT, but the BT has dropped only two of ten or so, in their tracks, both were does with one head and one neck shot. The rest haven't gone out of sight (50-100 yds.) and no way they were gonna get away, as they had massive internal damage and extreme blook trails with very large exits. If I had a shot at a trophy buck, I would not hesitate to shoot him through both shoulders, and expect full penetration, but I'd also expect to pick a few copper and lead shards out of him, and throw away a bunch of meat. My .02 FWIW.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
I was planning to try some 150gr Nosler BT in my 7mag, but read some reviews which suggested they might be too frangiable. ...

Hey Westernmassman, I've used that exact Bullet from the first 3 generations of B-Tips in a couple of 7mmRemMags on a good number of Deer. Each generation got a bit tougher than the previous one, and could withstand more Bone contact.

Can't speak for the 4th generation, but the first ones did right well if you placed them directly into the Chest or directly "behind" a shoulder blade so it was headed toward the off-side shoulder. The farther out the Deer happened to be, the better the chance of an Exit through that off-side shoulder.

On closer shots, it was not uncommon to locate some Bullet pieces when cleaning.

They are normally very Accurate for me. But, I've used a lot of various "Standard Grade" Bullets on Deer and also had excellent results.

If you might be shooting through a row of Beans(which are being combined right now), a small amount of weeds close to the Deer, or want to be able to include both Shoulders in the shot, it would be difficult to find a better Bullet that the old Partition. Speer Mag Tip or Speer Grand Slam.

But the B-Tips work fine when used as I mentioned above.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I would look at the Nosler 140 gr AB or the 160 gr AB in your 7mm RM. Both are very tough and very accurate bullets.

JD338

Short of shooting Coyotes/varmints, I personally wouldnt use a Ballistic tip for anything.

IMO with the velocity the 7mag produces, you may be better served with a bonded bullet of some sort.

If it 'twer me, I'd see if I could work up an accurate load with a 140 Accubond.

Use them. The deer will die, and soon.

You can't inflict lethal trauma without damaging animal tissue. If you want to kill deer without damaging any meat then smother them with carbon monoxide or arrange to electrocute them. Bullets that "don't damage much meat" also mean uncertain kills and/or long and sometimes unsuccessful tracking forays.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Use them. The deer will die, and soon.

You can't inflict lethal trauma without damaging animal tissue. Bullets that "don't damage much meat" also mean uncertain kills and/or long and sometimes unsuccessful tracking forays.

I used a 165gr BT (300 WM) a few yrs ago on a Mule deer buck. broadside shot @ about 140yards. Shot 3 times in the shoulder area. The 1st shot dropped him, but got back up, I hit him running, stumbled him, he ran another 20 yards and tipped over, I didnt want him moving anymore as he was real close to falling into the river so I shot him once more, finally killing him.

When I claimed my prize, I could put both my fists into the wound, and "the pieces" of bullets had only managed to pepper the one lung. I launched 495grs of bullet into that poor sukker & the biggest piece I found (from lung)was 40grs on my powder scale

Pretty good "deer type" performance there

Oh ya, I think I "damaged some meat"

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Use them. The deer will die, and soon.

You can't inflict lethal trauma without damaging animal tissue. If you want to kill deer without damaging any meat then smother them with carbon monoxide or arrange to electrocute them. Bullets that "don't damage much meat" also mean uncertain kills and/or long and sometimes unsuccessful tracking forays.

I agree with what you are saying about having to damage some meat, but these things will make you throw away the front half unless you just punch the ribs. They Damage Aplenty! Even staying away from the premium bullets, I think these and hollow points do far more meat damage than any basic cup and core, at least at 7mm mag velocities. And before someone talks about shot placement, I'll agree that if you don't hit any substantial bone (more than the rib cage), they don't damage too much meat, but if I'm hunting and may have to take a shoulder or frontal shot, I'd still like to have enough left over for supper.

quote:

Originally posted by JD338:
I would look at the Nosler 140 gr AB or the 160 gr AB in your 7mm RM. Both are very tough and very accurate bullets.

JD338

I tried the Nosler 140gr Accubonds out of my 280 @ 3150fps mv.

They blew the nose off doing a lot of meat damage on the way in W/a small exit wound & poor blood trail.

I switched to the Hornady 139gr Interbonds.

Nosler claims a large mushroom impedes penetration. The 3/4" mushroom of the 139gr Hornady Interbond pictured above penetrated about 36" after hitting the scapula. That's plenty of penetration in my book.

I don't buy Nosler's theory. I want the bullet to hold together (retain weight) & form a large musroom for more shock & tissue damage WHEN, NOT BEFORE the bullet has reached the vitals.

I use Nosler ballistic tips in my 7mm-08 because it runs about 250fps slower than my 280. W/a close hit @ 75 yds or less, the 280 is stepping a bit fast for a frangible bullet to hold together.

BTW: That's the only Interbond I have ever recovered.

I used to shoot the 140 gr. Nosler BT out of my 7mm Rem Mag with spectacular results. I made the mistake of shooting a Doe in the sholder once though, had to throw it away. Every other Deer I shot with that combo was shot behind the shoulder, and never lost one. You could pour the Lungs out of the body cavity.
Good luck, Doug

throttle the MV down to 2700 fps and it is a totally different animal..you won't see ruined meat...

OK, I guess the consensis is that the BT's can be a problem, and I will go in a different direction.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
throttle the MV down to 2700 fps and it is a totally different animal..you won't see ruined meat...

So when we "throttle down" maybe we should just have a 7-08!? Whats the sense of having a 7 mag if your gonna run it @ 2700?

I have several friends that are outfitters/guides, I honestly havent heard too many good stories about Nosler BT no matter what speed the clients run 'em.

I have had pretty good success with some 140 BT's from my 7mm08, but they are years old left overs. Not the new style that are so frangible.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Whats the sense of having a 7 mag if your gonna run it @ 2700? ...

There is no sense in it at all.

In Great Britain many places will "discourage" to put it mildly the use of Nosler or anybody else's "ballistic tip" bullets on large deer. As others have said the meat damage is just too much where these places sell on the meat to a game meat dealer.

I've shot thirteen deer with 140 BTs in a 22 inch barrelled 280.
Every one of them came apart.All of these were at 100-150 yards.All were either shot behind the shoulder or in the upper neck.
I'd be afraid of a shoulder shot on the buck of a lifetime with them.
I've switched to 140 Accubonds,stayed tuned for this years results.

The 150 NBT is one of my favorite deer bullets in the 7RM. I've killed piles of whitetails with them as well as some huge Russian boar.

I have NEVER had one fail period. Matter of fact, I have only recovered one in a whitetail. It was a shoulder shot and the bullet was in a nice mushroom under the off side hide. One of the boar was too large for a 300lb scale gutted! That one was shot in the shoulder at 50yds, fell over, twitched, and gave up the ghost. I can assure you that boar are far tougher than deer.

I run them over 66grns of R22 lit by 215MMs in two of my 7RMs for deer. They chrono 3120 from one and 3000 from the other(slow bbl abolt, but very accurate). Nearly every deer is DRT or very near by after impact and the exits are not horrific at all.

The NBT has a thick tapered jacket with solid base, much thicker than standard run of the mill cup-and-core bullets.

A few will claim they perform like varmint bullets, I can promise you I've shot more than enough to prove otherwise and know others that have as well.

Even on coyote sized vermin they blow a small hole. I remember looking at one exit in amazement as it was about 1/2" in diameter(facing me on strong qtr and exiting his ribs), he was drt

Have a Good One,

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
OK, I guess the consensis is that the BT's can be a problem, and I will go in a different direction.

I wouldn't base my decision on this thread. Only a few post were about the actual 150 .284 NBT in question.

If they shoot good in your rig use them with confidence. IMO you will find no other standard bullet that will do any better. Premiums, yes, but no other std bullet is going to give better performance IME. When it comes to std CNCs, they all perform nearly the same in identical conditions.

If you don't want an expansive bullet, you have no choice other than going to a premium.

Good Luck

Reloader

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I shoot the 150 grain BT in my Ruger 7mm Mag as does my son in law in his Remington and think it is the best bullet for deer without a doubt.

Unless you make a habit of shooting them in the hindquarters this bullet dosn't "waste" a lot of meat but it does save a lot of tracking. The difference is that they just seem to drop deer in their tracks. Have seen 2 way over 300LB live weight mule deer drop in their tracks, and several smaller pacific mule deer do the same thing.

It is very accurate in most rifles, have shot several 3 shot groups you could cover with a dime.

I shot a big bull elk on the run with the same deer round and it did take 3 shots to anchor him at 300 yards but the first 2 were too far back (liver, back of lungs) on the animal.

I've read horror stories too but only seen great results even at close range.

Shot deer with 155 bal tip in 308 win and it fragmented, will never use bt again.

I really like the BT as well as the A-Max for light deer, but do expect the possibility of fragmentation in both. For the most part I use them for target.

I have had great luck in many calibers and velocities on deer side game, with both Accubond and Interbond. Wholy different designs yet the both, IMHO work extremely well -- this si important -- when used as designed.

It sounds like the perfect bullet....,for a 7X57.

It sure seems like a lot of folks have problems with those fragments on their BT's ..............................Taken out of DEAD deer.

If you want a perfect mushroom - shoot ballistic gel with expensive bullets. If you want a dead deer shoot them with BT's.

Well, I dont know if I've ever read a post where there was about a 50/50 love hate for one bullet.

Usually a bullet that gets a good amount of praise should get the nod.........not the one that 1/2 the posters(guessing by the posts) will never use again!

Like I said, unless it was for varmintz, I wouldnt use them.

quote:

Originally posted by specneeds:
It sure seems like a lot of folks have problems with those fragments on their BT's ..............................Taken out of DEAD deer.

If you want a perfect mushroom - shoot ballistic gel with expensive bullets. If you want a dead deer shoot them with BT's.

IF you want a perfect mushroom @ over 3100 fps mv shoot a Hornady 7mm 139gr Interbond.



(That's a view from the base in my Avatar)

7mm BTs work fine from 7-08, 7X57, etc.

Push them over 3000 fps & they can be erratic @ close range.

I used to use the 150 grain ballistic tip in my 7mm Rem Mag. Yes it killed them but after having one completely fragment after a chest shot at a red hind from about 100 yards - no exit wound, I gave up with them. Bits of bullet all over the place, no thanks! Changed to Sierra Gameking instead, seems to be just as accurate but doesn't fragment.

When folks say they had "spectacular" results, it means they blew the shit out of the deer.
Work up a good load with a 160gr bullet and use it for everything. Say a NP. Elk, mulies, WT, antelope. The meat damage will be pretty much like a .270 or such with a proper bullet.

I loaded up some 140gr BT for whitetail. Hit a buck in the ribs. The bullet blew up on the surface. Cracked the rib, but had zero penetration. Never used them again. I have some expensive varmint bullets now. I switched to Sierra and Barnes bullets.

I use several bullets in my 7MM RM, the 140 and 150 gr. Ballistic Tips, The 160 grain Accubond and Partition, the 175 gr. Hornady Spire points and Speer Mag Tips. If I use it for deer it gets the 140 gr. BT's loaded to 2800 fps. It's a big if because I also have a 7x57 in which I like the 150 gr. BT pushed to 2700 fps. I think there is good reason to own a 7x57 or 7-08 for use on deer unless your ranges are very long.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
It sounds like the perfect bullet....,for a 7X57.

You are correct. I have no idea how they perform in a Rem Mag, I suspect they would be too frangible, but they are wonderful in the 7x57. I have shot alot of them through mine and couldn't ask for a better bullet in that application. Just perfect for that speed range. I have shot BT's in other calibers/weights and wasn't so impressed, but the 150 at 7x57 and 7-08 speeds is great.

They work great on deer. period

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
They work great on deer. period

But do they work on a Deers shoulders "period?
How bout an inadvertant shot in the hip?

NOPE TO EITHER

I have shot a ton of game with the 150 gr NBT in a 7mm Mag. Using my detailed notes, here is what I have shot (the numbers in parenthesis are the closest and longest shots):

5 Dahl sheep (15/360)
7 caribou (30/370)
2 antelope (175/455)
Blesbok (225)
zebra (65)
4 gemsbok (40/100)
springbok (210)
ibex (265)

I never lost an animal. But today, there are better bullets that are just as accurate. Hint: they aren't SMKs.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
They work great on deer. period

Yeah, they do.

I'm going to turn this around and ask a different question. The biggest deer a person could possibly run into in North America would probably weigh 300 pounds if you're hunting in northern Canada. The average deer is probably somewhere around 150, maybe less.

Is there a bullet made (and I'll exclude FMJ's, as they're illegal in many states) that you can shoot at a deer out of a 7mm Mag that won't effectively kill it?

Deer aren't bullet proof. If you hit them in the vitals with anything from a 22lr to a 700NE they're going to die.

Pete

Okay, I got some real world experience on this one. When I got my Ruger 7 RM I started out using Nosler BT. After losing about three of the first 6 deer I shot with it (from an elevated tree stand) because I didn't get an exit wound or inflict enough internal trauma on the animal, it became apparent at least to me the the BT was breaking up on contact and I had little or no penetration and internal expansion. I switched to Nosler NP. Did not have any further issues and then switched to TSX which my rifle really liked before I sold it. Now in my 270 WSM and 300 WSM I shoot tipped Trophies with no problem whatsoever. I agree the BT are for varmints, not deer.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I have shot a ton of game with the 150 gr NBT in a 7mm Mag. Using my detailed notes, here is what I have shot (the numbers in parenthesis are the closest and longest shots):

5 Dahl sheep (15/360)
7 caribou (30/370)
2 antelope (175/455)
Blesbok (225)
zebra (65)
4 gemsbok (40/100)
springbok (210)
ibex (265)

I never lost an animal. But today, there are better bullets that are just as accurate. Hint: they aren't SMKs.

It just dawned on me that I have shot 22 animals covering 8 species with this exact combination. Like I said, I never lost an animal.

I have only lost two animals, both with a different bullet that I think is too soft. To say this is suited for varmints only is a little tough for me to swallow.

I've killed a lot of deer with the 140 BT, but I now use the Partition and the 160 TSX. Didn't have any real reason to change. Just curious and my Dakota will only shoot the 160 TSX. Absolutely nothing else. The Browning loved the old 140 grain Federal TB load, but they don't make it anymore and I've never tried to handload it. I don't know if the 140 TB is available.