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I have been a fan of the original M98 Mauser, it has to be about the safest bolt action designed, and has been for me, one of the most reliability (in terms of parts breakage) ever built. So, I am interested in getting one of those Zastava Mausers. But I would like to know, how many Mauser features are still left in Zastava of Serbia Mauser actions? Let me tell you what features I would like to know about: Mauser inner collar – Is there one? Is it cut on either side like the FN Mausers or is it only cut for the extractor like the M98?. Third safety lug. Still got one? Cocking piece. Still three rows of interrupted threads on the cocking piece? Firing Pin shaft: Does it have the flat sides half way like the original Mauser?. If you have gas escaping into the bolt the firing pin will be blown back. The flat sides of original Mauser firing pin would allow only about half of the firing pin to stick out of the bolt sleeve. Also this pluggs up the bolt sleeve limiting the gas that would follow the shaft and come out the bolt sleeve into your eye. Firing pin front: The M98 firing pin cannot touch a primer unless the bolt is fully closed. The original firing pin is ?flanged? at the front. The inside of the bolt has matching grooves. When the flanges and grooves are aligned, the firing pin can go all the way forward. I have had at least three firing pins break on M1903’s, and one break on a M1917. I was lucky that these firing pins did not ignite a cartridge held on by the bolt face, or the bolt would have been blown back into my head. No commercial actions have this feature as far as I know. Are there feed ramps cut into bottom of the action body, or are side of a cheap sheet metal magazine the only guide ramps for a cartridge.? All the old military bolt guns had cut feed ramps, and so did the old Pre 64. Later guns just rounded the contours and used the sides of the magazine box for feed lips. In my opinion (and experience) feed reliability was reduced. I would appreciate any knowledge about these actions before I go out and buy a rifle. Regards | ||
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I don't have one in front of me(at work), but I believe it will have all of these except is a h-ring, not a c-ring breech as are later FN actions. Definitely has the third lug, not sure on the pin, been a while since I've stripped the bolt on one. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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It is exactly the same as an FN the only difference between the 98 is the "h" instead of the "C" and the side safety. All other 98 safety features are there. Feed ramps in the action. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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So what does having the H cut give-up over the C ring? | |||
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With modern steel and Brass in my opinion nothing. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Unless I got my extractors mixed up. The Extractor on my magnum Daly had the notch cut like the old 98. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Sounds good ramrod. If only Remington can hurry up! | |||
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Gentlemen: Thank you for the answers. This is most definitely encouraging. I would love to get one in 375 H&H, but failing availability, a 300 Win Mag would be my second choice. I would be very happy if they made that action with a M70 type three position safety. I have an JC Higgins M50 in 30-06. This rifle dates before 1955. The action on this rifle is an early FN and has all the M98 features (including the military buffered bolt stop) except H-ring internal collar, rail cut, clip slot, and trigger mechanism. The trigger mechanism was an override type mechanism instead of the direct pull military two stage. I managed to bust the override trigger mechanism when I stuck a military bolt in the action and pulled the trigger. The military cocking piece has a milled out section, something the override cocking piece did not have. The override sear was supposed to stay depressed until the action was fully cocked. Unfortunately with the military cocking piece above it, the override sear was able to rise up into the milled out section and the override mechanism reset. Opening the bolt broke the override mechanism. Now I have a Timney trigger in the rifle. It cost about $100 but it least it was adjustable. This rifle has a chromed bore. And it copper fouled badly until I paid a gunsmith to lap the barrel. The stock is plain walnut, the whole gun is plain jane utilitarian. With the exception of the action. The workmanship and quality of this early 50’s FN action is superior to later FN actions I have handled. They just got cheaper and cheaper. The later actions dropped many of the original M98 features and the machining is not as sharp. These M50 rifles sell at a discount compared to the Browning FN Supreme but have better actions (in my opinion). Ramrod: Let me state an opinion based without any real data on the inner collar. If I had a finite element model of the M98 I could tweak the parameters and see if a C type collar actually improved the structural strength of the receiver ring in the axial (radial?) direction. But I don’t. But I think it the C collar is stronger than the H collar. I can say that I have seen a bunch of web posted gun blow up pictures. Something I have noticed is that most of them have busted receiver rings. Take a look at this article, http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb/762d2.html, and this picture http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/blowup_images/kaboom2.jpg Even though these are different mechanisms, notice that the receiver rings are split. I think the mauser inner collar reinforces the ring, and the more inner collar the better. And maybe a lucky rabbits foot thrown in too. I managed to get on the CZ web page and download a manual of their action. http://www.cz-usa.com/data/product/InstrManual%20CZ550.pdf. About the only thing mauser on the CZ action is the extractor. The action clearly has a round firing pin, a pinned multiple piece firing pin, no third lug, no gas vents in the bolt, none buffered bolt stop, etc. By the way look at how many pieces it takes to make one of these override trigger mechanisms!. I much prefer the simplicity, ruggedness, and reliability of a military two stage. I really do. Regards to all, SlamFire | |||
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Sorry, the first article URL does not take you direct to the article. The article that had relevant pictures is "A Scientific Report on the M1A kB!" on the gun zone http://www.thegunzone.com/index.html webpage | |||
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Remington knows this! | |||
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If Remington knew this they wouldn't have Zastava build their actions.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I can see how the C would be stronger than the H. I just don't see it as an issue with modern steel and brass. I'll also look at a couple other extractors. The only one I had loose is from a Daly magnum and it has the raised edge on the tab. I don't have the bolt to check to see if it has the lip. Either way I have used MKXs for 30 years and have never left a case in the barrel. Maybe I've just been lucky. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Sorry for the confusion. I'm talking about a std length magnum. 308 norma not a 375 length. As to an issue with the quality of the alloy I have no clue. All I can say is I've used them for years. I load most loads to the 62-63,000 range and have never had a problem of any kind. Would I use one for the base of a real high $$$$ custom. No. For a nice basic hunting rifle. Yep have and will continue. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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How does the Granite Mountain Arms standard Magnum action compare on the above features in .375? Allen It's a Mauser thing, you wouldn't understand. | |||
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Alf, Do you see this as a problem for standard length cartridges, say to the 9.3x64?
Are there any known examples of Zastava action blow-up? Were they ever traced back to the steel? I know this is a relatively cheap action. I'm just trying to work out if it's not a safe action. - stu | |||
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It's true that this action is seriously weakened in the foreward area of lug engagement but not to the point of safety problems. This point is vastly overworked as many "FN Type" actions have functioned safely this way for years. As a matter of fact I've never heard of a failure with this design. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I have a LH daly action in front of me. The notch is cut. So the opinion that it is not...............is wrong. I own two of the Zasatava left hand actions. The gunsmith I am using (GAry Stiles) is well know as a Mauser man. He really liked the action I took to him.....especially when I told him the price. And left handed........it is virtually the ONLY option under several thousand dollars. The BS about the steel......is just that. Internet BS. Yes.........it is a MAuser action. | |||
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Alf, You are incorrcet about this. My action has it. I will post a picture of teh bolt this weeknd. | |||
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All of the Zastava/Interarms/MarkX/Whitworth actions that I have seen had the self-locking extractor feature. I have not seen any of the Charles Daly actions, so I cannot comment. I view the C-ring to have been a critical feature in 1898, given the softer case-hardened steel that was being used to build the original model 98. I do not view it as being critical in the post 1930 era of modern steels, given the use of standard chamberings. If I were to try to stuff magnum or oversize cartridges into a standard length action, I would want a modern steel action and a C-ring. | |||
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Zastava also screwed up when they changed to the "speed lock" cocking system which makes lifting the bolt while the rifle is shouldered harder & in my opinion off sets the benifit of a faster lock time.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I had never compared the bolt lift between the two until this morning. Side by side the new style does seem harder to lift. But, in a hurry I have never felt the difference while hunting. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Aftermarket 3 position Model 70 type safeties are available. Look in Brownells Catalog. With regard to strength, my brother has been shooting a 7mm Rem Mag Mark X Rifle for the last 15 years. Lots of rounds through it. No problems whatsoever and it feeds beautifully. Barrel remains wonderfully accurate as well. | |||
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Phil Shoemaker has used a Mark X action 458 Win for 20+ years while guiding for Brown/Grizzly's and moose in some very tough conditions (See rifle No.208, July 2003, "Beauty and the Beast"). I like the "Pure" mauser myself. However, the Zastava seems to have an excellent track record, despite its "Cheap" price. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Here is the picture of my Left hand/ CD bolt. I bought this one when I found out Daly lost the distribution rights to Remington. Figureing that Remington would not offer actions. I have my first action with Gary Stiles. This one is still waiting to become something  I have narked the undercut area. | |||
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The bolts on all of my MK X Mausers have the undercut bolt for the extractors. On my old .458 I added a M-70 style two position safety and slicked up the action until you don't even feel the loaded rounds chambering. They may not be as finely finished as Granite Mtn actions but they work and in my experience give up nothing in function to any action. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I am having trouble understanding the C versus H ring argument. I know it has been hashed over many times but how can there be a substantial impropvement in a C ring when it is behind the chamber? Every front ring failure I have seen or read about failed in the chamber area ahead of the diaphram where the ring (H or C) exerts no influence? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I don't claim to be an expert by any means. In a barrel/chamber failure I don't see that the H would help. If the case head fails then the H would provide a little more support on the left side. You would still have the right side open for the extractor. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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The C ring reinforces the receiver between the lug recesses and the threads for the barrel. I believe this served a purpose during the period of softer, case-hardened steel. It also serves to block gases during a catastrophic breech failure. The C ring might force gases toward the right side extractor cut, away from the shooters face. An H cut might allow gases down the left side, and since there is no thumb cut on commercial mausers, back towards the shooter's face. Again, I only feel this is an issue if you are chambering for a high pressure cartridge. | |||
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A case head failure would allow gases in an area even with the diaphragm and therefore it could not mimimize gas in the left raceway. Seems that only in a full chamber failure forward of the breech area (which is the least likely scenario) would any potential blockage occur. I think the thumb cut is of more value in gas control on the left raceway than the C ring. If anything, that should be reinstated. It certainly doesn't detract form the strength of the action. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I have noticed folks stating that a C ring versus a H ring is not that important today because of our improved steels. I don’t know that, it all depends on the load imparted to the receiver ring by escaping gas. There is a lot of surface area in there. Please note that the blow up pictures (URL's posted earlier) are modern actions. The M1a uses 8620 steel, I don't know what the Marlin uses. Most American actions use 4140 steel. This is a good steel, machines well, not too expensive, heat treats well. Good material properties. Go to Mat Web http://www.matweb.com/index.asp?ckck=1 and type in 4140 and look at the different heat treatments. Typically actions are heat treated/carburized to increase surface hardness in the load bearing areas. This is for wear hardness. Heat treatment will warp parts. Something like a rifle action with thin pieces and thick pieces all over the place, heat treatment of the whole part is very tricky. So you will find that the receiver ring is often the only part that is heat treated. You can see on a bolt, the lugs are heat treated, the body is not. I don’t know what is done for the cocking cam. With a good quality steel, such as 4140, the shear yield is acceptable in the normalized (allowed to cool without heat treatment) for the operating parameters of a rifle. The total load in a 30-06 or 308 is about 7000 pounds. The material safety factor in firearms is 2:1 for design purposes. (typically) Military Mauser actions used mild plain carbon steels, I suspect 1030 ot 1040. I would have to look at Hatcher’s Notebook to see. Even using “low grade†steels, the loads were acceptable. Steels today are more uniform , but material properties for the good stuff have not changed. I don’t know what Zastava uses. There is no reason to assume that they are using a higher grade alloy steel. It would cost more, why should they? Regards to all. | |||
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If possible, will someone post a pic of the safety on the Zastava of Serbia Mauser actions? A description would also help. ________ Ray | |||
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 how much better is the cz550 vs zastava, are they worth the extra cash? up to 9.3mm: cz 40% more expensive .375 and up: cz 67% more expensive | |||
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Put a 98 Mauser with the thumb cut to your shoulder and assuming you are right handed open your left eye. The thumb cut aims gas at the left side of your face. | |||
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No, it redirects gas AWAY from your face and what little does continue down the rail is further retarded by the bolt stop. | |||
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I have been around long enough though to realize the absolute genius of Paul Mauser's design and the M-98 was his final and most successful for a reason. He thought of everything and I'm sure had a good reason at the time for the H ring. However the Win M-70's and 1903 Spflds don't have any rings, C or H, so the argument of which type is better or worse is mostly theory. As for "real" Mausers, According to Speeds book, Mauser purchased Zastava made actions in the late 1970's - so I guess one could claim they are "real M-98's Mauser" Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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