Are the Weatherby vanguard rifles made as well as the Mark V rifles?
I may have a chance to buy one from a friend for about $300.00. It's in .300 Weatherby Mag. and in excellant condition.

Is the difference in price because of the 'glass stock versus the nice wood on the other Weatherbys?

Is this worth getting, or would a nice Remington or Savage be a better choice?

I will be going after Texas deer mostly.

Jim

In my opinion the howa made vanguard is equal in quality to the mark V as far as fit and finish are concerned.I also find them every bit as accurate.However,I wouldn't bother with the 300wby in a rifle with a 24" barrel.It really needs a 26" barrel to gain much over the 300win mag.

OK, now I am really going to expose my ignorance.
I am not sure if it is .300 Weatherby Mag or .300 Win Mag. I thought all Weatherby rifles were chambered for Weatherby's calibers only.

I'll ask tomorrow.

Jim

I have a Vangard in 300 Weatherby Mag I bought at WalMart for $369. It shoots a 3 shot group of about .40". The trigger is creapier than the Smith & Wesson Howa in 300 Win Mag but the Smith labled rifle is not as accurate-only .75" groups.
I did have to put a stock on the Weatherby. The tupperware stock on it was really bad and the rifle would not shoot up to par.
I have 2 Weatherby Mark V's that don't shoot as well.

Jim, I have an older Vangard with a nice wood stock in 270. I shoot my brother-in-laws handloads in it. It's my whitetail getter. The stock is not much off MK 5 grade, too much gloss.

The Vanguard is every bit as good as (if not better than) the Savage or Remington. I have one in 300 WBY that shoots one ragged hole as long as I pull the trigger. Speaking of the trigger they are pretty crappy but an easy fix. I just wish I had a use for the .300WBY round. It would definately be my "go to" rifle if I needed to make a long range shot (over 200 yards). Mine'll become a 416 Taylor when I get back from Afghanistan in 2008.

For $300 I would go for it.

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Are the Weatherby vanguard rifles made as well as the Mark V rifles?

In my opinion they are better.

If they sold new for $369.00 I may try to see how firm his $300.00 price is. It's not the steal I was hoping for, but is still a decent buy.
Now, I need a buyer for my Swede.

Jim

Make sure on the 300wmag or 300wby. I believe they did both. I've seen a lot of funny cases at the range from people firinga 300wmag in a 300Wby
If the gun is in good shape $300 is a good price. Check the various sites. the going price is $350 up

I think $300 is a good price. The one I got at Wally World needed a new stock to make it shoot and that was $150 from Brownells on special. Go for it.

+1 on the Vanguard in 300 WBY. Mine was on clearance at WallyWorld for $299.

+1 on a replacement stock. I bought a Bell & Carlson Medalist.

The 24" barrel does fine. Never ran it across the chrono on purpose. It's accurate, fast enough, flat enough and easy to handload. Not going to chase down the last few fps.

ZM

I've had one for 3 years - .300 Wby - 24" barrel - shoots great.

Hated the plastic stock - restocked it with a nice blank of maple burl that I had shaped by Richards Microfit - classic Weatherby lines.





The trigger still sucks - I will replace it this year.

The vangard is not in the same class of the Mark V for fit & finish but,

All in all I love this rifle and would recommend the Vangard to anyone.

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The 24" barrel does fine. Never ran it across the chrono on purpose.

With a 24" barrel you will only gain about 100fps over the 300win mag.Even less if you consider the hornady heavy magnum load for the 300win mag.Hardly enough to justify the much higher cost for factory loads for the weatherby.

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Originally posted by stubblejumper:

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The 24" barrel does fine. Never ran it across the chrono on purpose.

With a 24" barrel you will only gain about 100fps over the 300win mag.Even less if you consider the hornady heavy magnum load for the 300win mag.Hardly enough to justify the much higher cost for factory loads for the weatherby.

If you BUY factory Weatherby ammo, then almost anything else is a better deal.
I handload the Weatherby. If I didn't, rent and food would be a problem.

ZM

I just can't imagine why anyone would even place the Vangaurd even in the same category as a Mark V. Maybe they've seen some better Vanguards than I have but, from the Vanguards I've shot and handled I place the Vangaurd in the same category as a rifle such as a Savage. Not pretty by any means but functional. The Mark V is a much much better rifle way above a Vangaurd.

I'm not saying the Vanguard is not a descent rifle, Just saying they compare w/ the cheap Savages and the like IMO.

Good Luck

Reloader

Opinions are like "noses", everybody has one. Pepperbelly, I think initially you may have confused the Vanguard as a plainer Mark V, which it is NOT. I have my opinions of the Mark V but will leave them unspoken. The Vanguard is a copy of the the older SAKO and not quite as nice but certainly better than some other brands. The Vanguard was/is chambered in at least three .30 cal. magnums, 300 Weatherby, 300 Wnchester and 300 WSM (I have one of these). I walked out the door of "Wally World" with mine for $396 bottom line. They are well worth $400 new and I would try to talk him down a bit on the $350 but it's still worth the price. I replaced the trigger on mine with a Timney and will be replacing the tupperware with wood.

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I just can't imagine why anyone would even place the Vangaurd even in the same category as a Mark V.

Perhaps because I have owned two mark Vs as well as a couple of the howa made rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:
I've had one for 3 years - .300 Wby - 24" barrel - shoots great.

Hated the plastic stock - restocked it with a nice blank of maple burl that I had shaped by Richards Microfit - classic Weatherby lines.





The trigger still sucks - I will replace it this year.

All in all I love this rifle and would recommend the Vangard to anyone.

midway has the trigger

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:
I've had one for 3 years - .300 Wby - 24" barrel - shoots great.

Hated the plastic stock - restocked it with a nice blank of maple burl that I had shaped by Richards Microfit - classic Weatherby lines.





The trigger still sucks - I will replace it this year.

All in all I love this rifle and would recommend the Vangard to anyone.

I've never cared for the look or lines of the Weatherby style stocks but that sure is one BEAUTIFUL piece of wood. Very nice!

I've got a .300 Weatherby Magnum Vanguard that I bought from Wal-Mart for $389.95 in 1998, right after the Wal-Mart Weatherbies came out. I was in a big hurry to buy it because I knew that Vanguards had been discontinued in 1994, and thought Wal-Mart had found a stock of old ones.

It's a very nice rifle. Not highly polished, and in a plain but very functional black plastic stock. It's a very good shooter. The target shipped with it had three shots in two holes, a 0.8" group. It shoots similarly well with my handloads. Yes, it's got a snubby 24" barrel. No, it doesn't give higher velocities than a typical .300 Winchester Magnum. So what? It's no more expensive or difficult to load for. I don't buy factory ammo, and Remington cases are reasonable from several reloading supply houses.

I don't need any kind of magnum anyway, but I wanted one. When I grew up, the Weatherby Magnums were getting all sorts of attention as "superguns" in the gun mags, I was an impressionable kid, and it's just a fun thing to have.

Now, Wal-Mart carries the Vanguards in a fancy Weatherby wood stock, at a higher price. I'd've bought one if they were available in 1998, but not now.

I bought my 300 Weatherby new at WalMart last year for $299, and the Vanguard is twice the gun the Mark V is!

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
I just can't imagine why anyone would even place the Vangaurd even in the same category as a Mark V. Maybe they've seen some better Vanguards than I have but, from the Vanguards I've shot and handled I place the Vangaurd in the same category as a rifle such as a Savage. Not pretty by any means but functional. The Mark V is a much much better rifle way above a Vangaurd.

I'm not saying the Vanguard is not a descent rifle, Just saying they compare w/ the cheap Savages and the like IMO.

Good Luck

Reloader

That is what I wanted to find out. Apparently the Vanguard isn't a "real" Weatherby. I did think it was a "plainer" Mk V.
Unless he is willing to let it go cheaper I'll pass. I have a swiss K31 that, with a scope, will probably be more accurate and is definately enough for the deer around here.

Jim

Pepperbelly, look at the Weatherby web site and that will help you discern what the MFG. says is the difference. I have seen a lot of good shooting Vanguards, but would need a good bit of work to be a 'nice' rifle in my standards. Shooting deer with one should be NO issue though.

Reloading for a Weatherby mag is necessary if you don't want to break the bank on ammo. Weatherby mag ammo is ridiculous.

Having a Vanguard in 300 Win Mag would be a great 'base' rifle to tweak on and improve over time, i.e. new stock, new trigger or trigger job etc.

It's probably worth a look at Wal Mart or online gun sites to get what you think is a good price range.

quote:

That is what I wanted to find out. Apparently the Vanguard isn't a "real" Weatherby. I did think it was a "plainer" Mk V.

I hate to disappoint you,but weatherby does not manufacture rifles.They have them built by contractors like howa and saco.Even the mark V has been built in at least three different countries by various contractors.

quote:

Originally posted by pepperbelly:Apparently the Vanguard isn't a "real" Weatherby.

I believe it is. It says so, right on the side of the receiver.

Weatherby's never been a rifle builder. All Weatherbys other than the first few customs Roy built in his shop have been built by various other makers. They were built on various commercial Mauser actions for a while in the '50s, then by Schultz & Larsen on their actions. Roy Weatherby got an engineer to work with him and design the Mark V action, and hired J.P. Sauer & Sohn to build them. It's a very difficult design to machine, therefore costly to build. Got too expensive, and the contract got transferred to Howa in Japan. Later transferred back to a U.S. maker, SACO, because Japanese manufacture got too expensive.

The Vanguard was brought out in the early '70s as a less expensive alternative to the Mark V, basically a standard Howa design with some slight cosmetic changes to the bolt. There have been a bunch of different versions of it over the years. All specced by Weatherby, sold and marked as such, and like the Mark V, never touched by Weatherby in the process. Weatherby has an office building out in California. No manufacturing facility, warehouse or distribution center. Weatherby's like a franchiser, licensing gun makers to produce guns to Weatherby specs and with the Weatherby name, for a cut of the action.

So yes, the Vanguard is a "Real Weatherby." It's not a Mark V.

quote:

Originally posted by Ricochet:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pepperbelly:

So yes, the Vanguard is a "Real Weatherby." It's not a Mark V.

Would you guys hurry and make up my mind.
I'll have to think about it. If I need to replace the trigger and stock- I'm not really into synthetic stocks unless they are really special- it's not the deal I originally thought.
I have a C&RFFL and get my parts at Midway and Brownell's at dealer cost so that isn't a big deal.
I also have a Turkish Mauser I bought to sporterize, and I can make a deer rifle from it if/when the rifles I have now won't do the job. I also have a Yugo 98k Mauser still in 8mm that ought to thump pretty good.
I just thought this might be a steal. It's a good price on a decent rifle but I gotta really think about whether or not it's worth my Swede.

Jim

pepperbelly

I have one HOWA the same company that makes the Vanguard you're considering. The trigger was a little iffy. My gun smith worked it over and replaced the springs it's almost lighter than I care for and a very crisp trigger now. The only trigger I have that I like better are Jewel. I wouldn't worry about the 24" barrel. I have a .300 Weatherby non Weatherby that has a 24" barrel. I shoots 200 gr Sierra Gamekings at over 3000 fps with 83.0 gr. of IMR7828 the Max load in Nosler Number III. Go for it and don't look back. You'll be hard pressed to just buy an action for that price. I also had the Vanguard in 30-06 and a buddy needed a gun I was a friend and sold it to him. What's a guy to do.

Howdy, I keep running into you all over <G>.

I've gotten interested in the Weatherby Vanguards lately myself.Specifically the varminter model. I got to fondle one in Texarkana last week and really liked it, medium heavy barrel, makes for a rifle that isn't overly heavy but should be very accurate.

I've owned two older Vanguards in the past, the ones with the high gloss MkV type walnut stocks. One was a 7 Mag, the other was a .270. Both were excellent shooters.

Way back when I worked in a sporting goods store and sold dozens of S&W 1500 rifles, made by Howa. Not one ever came back and everyone I knew who bought one was happy with it. (The S&W model 1000 shotguns were dandies too).

Bell and Carlson makes upgrade stocks for the Howa/Vangard. And these rifles have some advantages over the Rem 700, flat bottommed action, integral recoil lug, Sako type extractor.

Wal Mart has a pretty decent selection of weeatherbys availble in their special order catalog. I've never bought a gun from WM, but the Vanguard might be a good place to start.

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And these rifles have some advantages over the Rem 700, flat bottommed action, integral recoil lug, Sako type extractor.

Actually many people prefer the round bottomed 700 receiver for bedding.

I like the look of the MK V action, isnt it a bit stronger than the vanguard aswell as have a higher quality barrel and stock. prob just as good bang for buck tho.

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the Vanguard is twice the gun the Mark V is!

Man, everyone needs a good laugh every now and again. You must of meant you can buy two of the Vanguards for the price of one MarkV ...

I guess we're going to start comparing Stevens 200s to Sako 75s in the next thread .

Reloader

quote:

I like the look of the MK V action, isnt it a bit stronger than the vanguard aswell as have a higher quality barrel and stock.

Yep

Reloader

quote:

I like the look of the MK V action, isnt it a bit stronger than the vanguard aswell as have a higher quality barrel and stock. prob just as good bang for buck tho.

The mark V action may or may not be stronger,I haven't seen any tests that prove this either way.I can however tell you that out of the nine small locking lugs on the mark V one of my rifles was only contacting on 6 lugs and the other on 7 lugs.As for the barrel,the howa barrels are quite good and the Criterion barrel that is used on some of mark Vs is not a Kreiger barrel.Kreiger owns Criterion but they are not the same company,and the barrels are not even made in the same way.Saying that Criterion and Kreiger barrels are the same is no different than saying that a cadillac and a chevy are the same.They are both owned by the same company.
The stock on the accumark that I bought and sold without even firing it wasn't any better than that on most vanguards,The barrel channel was not centered in the stock properly.
As for value,the vanguard is a much better buy for the money.

Very simple Pepperbelly... The Vanguard's are in fact a Weatherby... Generally speaking a company won't put their name on something they wouldn't want to be associated with... But the basics here are that the actions are different... There are 2 Mk V actions, one with 9 lugs and another with 6... The Vanguard's have 2 (i.e. more like a Mauser action)... I don't know who manufactures the barrel for them but since they don't specify Krieger - Criterion I suspect it's another manufacturer all together... They have been around for a number of years so Weatherby obviously considers them worth their effort..

By the way, they chamber them for numerous magnum cartridges including the WSMs...

Ken....

Just remember that because Remington made their M700-Classic" in 300WbyMag that Remington makes 300Wby ammo for FAR less than the weatherby price for ammo.

or if you prefer to "roll your own" you can also get Remington bulk brass.

Sadly remington never offered their classic in 257Wby.

Though they did in 7mmWby and 340Wby.

AllanD

quote:

Just remember that because Remington made their M700-Classic" in 300WbyMag that Remington makes 300Wby ammo for FAR less than the weatherby price for ammo.

And the remington ammunition for the 300wby is loaded ,much milder than the weatherby factory loads,so you really gain even less over the 300win mag.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
And the remington ammunition for the 300wby is loaded ,much milder than the weatherby factory loads,so you really gain even less over the 300win mag.

Again, so what?

Besides, this is the "Accurate Reloading" forum. We can load 'em however we want.

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Again, so what?

Just making the point that you won't see 300wby ballistics with those loads and a 24" barrel.

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Besides, this is the "Accurate Reloading" forum. We can load 'em however we want.

We are talking factory loads,so unless you run the equipment at the factory,you won't be loading them.

The MKV action is one of the strongest if not THE strongest action out there. I bought a Vanguard for my son and it's very accurate and well made but not in the same league as a MV > I also have an Accumark in 340 and it's a very accurate and well-made rifle, but then again so are all my Weatherbys. jorge

I talked to my friend today. I had thought it was a vanguard but he says it's a Mk. V in a synthetic stock. He also says it is in .300 Weatherby Mag. Is that big enough for a Texas sized deer?
He doesn't know what it's worth and will either look up a value on Auction Arms or I will. I am not sure what he wants for it. He thinks it's worth $1100.00, which is very different from what I thought he was asking last year. He had said I could keep anything I got over $300.00 if I sold it for him.
I'll look at it Monday or Tuesday and see which Weatherby it is and get a price from him.
Thanks for all the replies,
Jim