So my new girlfriend, “Kimberly†as I’ve named her, came in today. She is a Kimber Montana in 300 WSM. After much discussion in the optics thread, she is temporarily wearing a 3-9X50mm Zeiss Conquest. …more on that later.



I am very pleased with the fit and finish of the metal work. Of all the Montana rifles I’ve fondled over the last couple of years, this one seems to have the smoothest bolt/action. I’m very happy with that!



I mounted the Conquest using Talley’s one-piece alloy rings. I think they are very nice and were cinch to install. The rings were lightly lapped and truthfully didn’t really need it because they had excellent alignment as is. The LOW rings worked out very well, even with the 50mm Objective, so my concern about having too high of a scope due to a larger objective is now a null point altogether. The objective clears the barrel and the ocular clears the bolt handle without any interference.





ISSUE #1
Unlike all the other Montana rifles stocks I’ve tested, the stock on the one I received seems to be in contact with the barrel from the front swivel stud to the tip of the forend. (red line on pic below) All the others have had plenty of clearance down to the shank of the barrel.



So the question is, should I remove the action from the stock and relieve it by sanding? I say YES.

ISSUE #2

I haven’t pulled the action from the stock yet to look at the trigger mechanism, but has anyone had difficulty adjusting them on the model 8400s? I’m very pleased because it comes from Kimber feeling crisp with nearly undetectable creep and/or backlash, but it breaks around 3.75 lbs. I would like at least a pound off that, considering that it is a hunting rifle. I’m not expecting it to perform like one of my Jewell triggers, but I need a little help here.

Well, thanks for tuning in. I’ll keep you all posted on the progress as I start load development and other modifications to it (paint/epoxy coating likely). I will be shooting the North Forks exclusively for hunting and something else (A-Max or a BTHP) for practice.

I've got two Montana's, and a special edition french walnut stocked classic in .300 WSM. These rifles have been very good to me. Both my Montana's are free floated the length of the barre. The wood stocked rifle touched on one side so I sent it back to let them fix it. If it were me, I would first do some shooting with the rifle to see how it shoots. If it doesn't shoot well, I would send it back to Kimber and let them fix it. Keep your warranty intact. I've had no problem adjusting these triggers. I have two set at #3 and one at #2. They are all sufficiently crisp, smooth, and no travel problems, that I have not had a 'smith touch any of them. Good luck with that rifle.

I picked up a Montana a few weeks ago. It did not shoot well and when I checked the bedding I found it was not bedded properly.

I ended up bedding it correctly and then put pressure on the barrel which tightened the groups.

The dykem shows where it was touching prior to bedding it.

Great! Thanks for the response and the encouragement. If it were a wood stock, I would be less reluctant to touch it. However, the synthetics are less intimidating to remove material from. Would this void the warranty I wonder?

I left a messgae with Steve at Kimber asking him about this, but he has not had a chance to return my call yet.

I have a strong feeling that this rifle is inherently accurate and will therefore shoot just fine with the stock as is. However, it is the POTENTIAL of even greater accuracy that would drive me nuts. Know what I mean?

I know; we're all nuts!! haha

quote:

I know; we're all nuts!! haha

It makes life a little more bearable.

Some rifles shoot better with a little fore end pressure. If it's an even uniform fit it may have been done on purpose. I personally never heard of a rifle manufacturer doing this but some gunsmiths will.

I wouldn't be sanding anything until I at least talked to the manufacturer and actually shot it.

Thank again everyone for your responses.
I pulled the barreled action from the stock to check the area of the forend where it is touching the barrel, to adjust the trigger, and to check the bedding.

There is a comet shaped area approximately 1.5†X 0.75†on the forend where the stock is lightly touching. With a little outward pull of the stock, I can slip a dollar bill past the obstruction and slide it up to the barrel shank. Although it is true that some rifles shoot better with forend pressure on the barrel, I would be reluctant to say that this amount of irregular contact would help the accuracy of this particular rifle. At any rate, I guess I’ll have to wait to talk to Kimber before I do anything about it so I don’t void the warranty.



The trigger…

I could figure these screws out, but I would much rather just have one of you knowledgeable gentlemen fill me in on A, B, Cs of the Kimber trigger. Thank you!!





The bedding…

I can see some shiny spots where oil was left from the action, but I can’t see clearly where it is making contact. I do not have any dykem, so is there a poor man solution to determining where the action is in contact with the stock? I have bedded a couple of rifles before, but it was very obvious that they needed it; this is not as clear-cut.

Thanks again!

Kentai, Excellent pics.

Srew "C" is the sear engagement scew. I can't remember which is which off the top of my head but between "A" and "B" one is the overtravel adjustment screw and the other is the weight adjustment screw.

I'd lightly sand the forend so that it doesn't contact the barrel, it's not supposed to on these rifles. If you don't have any dykem or inletting black I've heard of some guys using lipstick (if you can sneak a stick from your wife or girlfreind), and I've read of one smith that used thin oil paints. I'd spend a few buck and order some inletting black from brownell's, it isn't too much and can help you do perfect work.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.as...inletting%20black&s=

A little bit goes a long way, I usually spread it on thinly with an acid or paint brush........................DJ

Nice pictures.

I would not remove any material from the stock. Nor would I want a barrel touching the stock when its not supposed to? I put the question mark there because Kimber may have changed its free floating policy but I doubt it.

Just wait for Kimber to respond and take down the name of the person who answers you.

In the mean time you could put the stock back on and see if it still touches. Perhaps something was in the way in the bedding/action interface.

For what the trigger screws do is in the online manual. Go by their names. The last time I looked at that online manual some of the words did not make sense but its an easy trigger to figure out. Wait and don't adjust the trigger until your sure your not sending the rifle back to Kimber. A Kimber trigger will adjust to a nice 2 pound crisp pull.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/downloads/Manuals/84m.pdf

I used the 84M page as its the same trigger as far as I know and the last time I looked that manual had a better picture.

Congratualations on achieving such a low mounting position with the oversized 50mm objective. The sharp taper just in front of the chamber section on the very lightweight Kimber barrel make this one of the few guns that allow such low mounting.

That said, I'm puzzled as to why someone would want to take a super lightweight gun with an exceedingly compact short action and put a scope on top of it of such great bulk and weight. Seems to defeat the purpose of having such a trim rifle to begin with. But, hey, it's your gun and your priviledge to do with it what pleases you -- you don't have to please me or anyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Congratualations on achieving such a low mounting position with the oversized 50mm objective. The sharp taper just in front of the chamber section on the very lightweight Kimber barrel make this one of the few guns that allow such low mounting.

That said, I'm puzzled as to why someone would want to take a super lightweight gun with an exceedingly compact short action and put a scope on top of it of such great bulk and weight. Seems to defeat the purpose of having such a trim rifle to begin with. But, hey, it's your gun and your priviledge to do with it what pleases you -- you don't have to please me or anyone else.

quote:

After much discussion in the optics thread, she is temporarily wearing a 3-9X50mm Zeiss Conquest. …more on that later.

You must have missed what the poster said......................DJ

DJ-

Thanks again for your advice. I ordered some inletting black this AM. In the meantime, I am going to steal some lipstick from the girl just to test it out before I make any permanent mods.

Also, I want to give a big public thank you to DJ. We've had private discussions about the Montana for going on two years now. Ha!

Savage 99-
I agree. As hard as it may be, I am going to wait to speak with Kimber before modifying anything or adjusting the trigger. I'll use this time to break in the barrel and fireform brass at the same time, while getting used to shouldering the rifle as well. Probably do some velocity measurements while I'm at it. Thanks for the link to the manual! Big help.

Stonecreek-
You are right on both accounts. Yes, I am lucky to be able to mount the scope. And yes, it is a heavy scope for such a light rifle. I noticed right away how the balance was affected after mounting it. Sure, it's great to have the larger objective mounted at the same position as a 40mm or less scope, but I'm not a fan of the weight distribution. Because of this, I think I am back on the Swarovski bandwagon.

Here is a chart for comparison I made on another thread with a few additions for the 50mm Conquests:



As you can see, the Zeiss 3-9X50mm is 5 oz. heavier than a 3-9X36mm Swarovski. And it is 4 oz heavier than a Swarovski 3-10X42mm.

So, now the question becomes... How much light gathering ability does the 50mm Zeiss have over the Swarovski 36mm? We can calculate it empirically, but I am only concerned with the practical perspective relative to real field conditions.

I guess it's all about trade-offs:

5oz weight savings vs Low-light shooting

Opinions??

Kentai, I think you should shoot the rifle and see how it works. If the rifle is shooting great with the scope as is you might want to leave well enough alone and leave the scope on it.
My guess would be that it's not going to shoot it's best with the forend pushing up but again if it shoots great while you are breaking in the barrel there you have it.
My 325 WSM Montana didn't shoot that great at all for the first couple range sessions. It may have been the bad conditions that day or it may have been the barrel settling in, but now it shoots consistantly well (as long as the scope isn't broken)..........................DJ

Regarding the stock touching the forend, I spoke with Kimber today and they were very helpful and understanding. They intended for the barrel to free-float on the Montana rifles, so they offered to pay for roundtrip shipping and said it would only take a couple of days to repair or replace the stock... whatever was needed. Personally, I don't think it will take a whole lot to fix and I'd like to do it myself, but the man at Kimber really wanted to take a look at it and fix it at the factory to see what went wrong (quality control. Also, he didn't want me to void the warranty or damage the stock. Understandable.

I have a last minute invitation to hunt opening weekend of deer season in Mississippi, so I am going to send the rifle off after that.

I ordered some Aluma Hyde II and Gun-Kote from Brownell's today. I want to finish the stock in Coyote Aluma Hyde and all the metal work in Matte Gray. This will be my first coated rifle, but I think I'll be happy with it. I've only heard positive things about Gun-Kote, so if there are any warnings or naysayers out there, speak up!

Link to Brownell's Aluma Hyde II



Link to Brownell's Gun-Kote



Lastly, here are some shots of before and after lapping the Talley One-Piece Alloy rings. It didn't take much work to get 75%+ contact on both rings.

It actually works the other way with a big scope on a light rifle. What happens is that the rig is not too heavy. For instance what would you get with a medium weight rifle and a big scope?

Sure the scope will look big but the Montana's are for function anyway and function they will.

For instance I have three Montanas and a 4.5-14 Conquest is on the 243 and a 3-9 Conquest is on the 270 WSM. With a light rifle one can even add a bipod and it will still not be too heavy. See what I mean?

To all oyu Montanaowners, are you pleased with your rifles? I just ordered one in 7-08 and I`m
anxious for what to expect...

Kenati, nice pics and sorry for the hijack!

asti,

I wish you the best of fortune on your new Kimber rifle. I have bought five of them now from Kimber of NY and I have had mixed luck but on the other hand I am strongly attracted to these rifles for their features.

An overview of gun quality from the gun companies that I have read about and bought from is spotty at best. In the very recent past both Sako and Tikka had rifles blowing up with serious injuries. Winchester produced a bunch of junk rifles before they closed all together and I got one of those. Savage sold me a M12 with a rough bore that also made high pressures. Smith & Wesson made a 910S that seems perfect.

I have been to the Kimber plant more than once as I live only an hour away and I had mixed results there. Like too many companies they have an evolving quality effort.

Overall the gun business is not a good one to be in it seems to me. They have many enemies and a declining market.

I was attracted to the Kimber of NY rifles as I wanted lighter ones due to my age. Before that I enjoyed various featherweights (7.75# scoped) rifles which I still have. I also like CRF and M70 type safeties. Again Kimber has those features along with made in the USA.

The best of luck to you. My only sure prediction as to how your rifle will be and in fact my next one is that Dr. Demming will not come back out of the grave and oversee their production. Hopefully someone else will do what he instructed.

Oki. Thanks savage for the reply! I ordered one in 7-08, but if it seem and shoot really bad, I am able to choose from two 8400:s, one in 270 win and the other in .-06. Hopefully the 7-08 turn out good cause I really want the "handiness".
Cheers!

Now I see that you are in Sweden! It seems as if your dealer will trade? In any case there is quite a difference between the 84M and the magnum action 8400's that the 30-06 is in. I would hold out for what you want.

I am going to the range now to check some loads on my Kimber 270 WSM! See you later.

Yes, I know there is a difference. The dealer said, "usually they are fine from factory, if it isnt, our smith will fix it." Hopefully I will be pleased.
Anyway, this is kenatis thread. Things got out of hand here, sorry about that.

Hey Asti-
Don't worry about "hijacking" the thread. No worries! And good luck with your Kimber. I am very pleased with mine so far. I think it is definitely going to be a winner.

DJ and Savage 99-
Thanks again for the trigger adjustment info. I got it to break a perfectly clean 2.25 pounds very consistently. It was really easy to do. Thanks!

The 300 WSM Norma brass is on backorder everywhere and will take another month to get in. My local store only had 150 grain Winchster Supreme Ballistic Tips in stock, so that's what I went with for break in and sight in.

I actually don't care for the Lubraloy (sp???) black coating they used on the CT (combined technology) bullets, especially when trying to break in a barrel, but that's all I had for now and I needed to get prepped for this last minute hunt. I only shot fifteen rounds; the first 10 were the shoot and clean sequence, then shoot 2 and clean up to 15 rounds until I stopped to save the last 5 rounds for the hunt.

During the shoot I managed to sight it in 1" high at 200 yards with the last group being 3 shots that measured a little LESS THAN 1" at 200 yards. My shooting buddies were impressed. I agree, it's not too bad considering an oily fresh bore and the gymanstics of getting up and down from the bench to clean.

Again, thanks eveyone for all of your advice.

The Northforks should be here in time for a mule deer hunt on an Indian reservation in the Sierra Nevadas mountains in California. So I can't wait to get started on load development.

Take care everyone and Happy Thanksgiving!

quote:

Originally posted by Kenati:
During the shoot I managed to sight it in 1" high at 200 yards with the last group being 3 shots that measured a little LESS THAN 1" at 200 yards. My shooting buddies were impressed. I agree, it's not too bad considering an oily fresh bore and the gymanstics of getting up and down from the bench to clean.

Great shooting Kentai!

I hope that all the people that talk about how bad Kimber read your report. A 6.2lb factory rifle that shoots 1/2 MOA at 200yds out of the box. That's excellent with any rifle much less with a factory lightweight.

I wish you continued success.................DJ