Kutenay’s discussion on an ideal setup for a B.C./Yukon has gotten my thinking, once again, about the .338 Winchester Magnum. Why wouldn’t it be an ideal all around rifle for use in North America. Set up the rifle of your choice to weigh between 8 and 8.5 lbs with a barrel 22-24†in length stocked in synthetic and scoped with a medium/low variable or a good fixed power scope.

Consider the 210 grain partition or another premium of similar weight as the workhorse for most hunting conditions. Saving the option to use 250 grainers when they might be needed. Despite recoil that may bother some, what would be wrong with that type of setup to do it all?

Chuck

Seems to me that in North America only the great Bears and the very longest shots would cause the .338 Win Mag a little heart burn.

I bought a pre64 M70 with a Kreiger bbl set up on a pillar bedded McMillan stock. I wears a teflon finish and a 3-9x42 Zeiss scope. Weight hit right in your range.

Holds a 2" group at 300 ... so minute of Elk is good to nearly 400 yards.

I figured it would work for pretty much everything through plains game in Africa.

Its recoil is a little sharper than a .375 H&H and more than the 9,3x62. But has worked out well.

Chuck,

Your analysis is exactly why I have 2 Winchester Model 70's chambered in 338 Win Mag. Yeah, it's a bit overkill for deer, but the meat damage with the 210 grain Noslers you mentioned has been less than what my 300 Weatherby with 180 grain Noslers produced, a hole in and hole out, with a very dead deer.

I hunt Elk, Deer, Moose and Grizzlies. For me, the 338 is all the gun I need, it's "my perfect cartridge", and the Model 70 Classic is "my perfect rifle."

A McMillan stock, Leupold scope, a 210 grain Nosler at 2900 fps, and I'm ready to go hunting.

The 338 Mag is definitely going to handle anything you need of it. It works with about any bullets.

Not a lot of guys download it, but for those that think it is overkill on deer, try a 338 Mag down loaded to about 2250 fps or so ( to duplicate the original 338 bore, the 33 Winchester) and a 200 grain Ballistic tip or a 200 grain Hornady SP.

Recoils little more than a 300 Savage, flatter trajectory than you would imagine., and that bullet weight just goes thru a lot of obstacles like bone, muscle and deer innards ( like lungs, not gut shooting so flake off you !)

At 100 yds, the point of impact with that and the 210 partition might be found to be awfully close if not one on top of the other in my findings.

Cheers
seafire

Chuck, I've used 338's for a bit over twelve years and used one for several years as my only rifle. I really like the 338. The only caveat with it in an 8lb rifle is recoil... the 338 kicks. Personally I'm past wanting to deal with its recoil in the kind of rifle I actually like to carry (8lbs all-up). Actually, the 338 has another caveat... accuracy. Of the many 338's I've had only one (an old Rem 700) was a genuine moa rifle... most gave me absolute fits! I also decided that the actual real-world differences in killing power between most cartridges adequate for NA big game are minor. I'm also convinced that a guy could spend his entire hunting career with a properly stoked 270 or 30-06 and never find an actual need for more. Anyway, I've basically come full-circle back to more or less "standard" cartridges.

Kicks??? I don't even notice the recoil most of the time and my .338s with the most efficient and "natural" bullet weight, 250 grs. will usually group about 1 moa, even with my "spare" scope, a 30+ yr. old Leupy 3x. I find a .300 Roy or my .375s to be much meaner to shoot than a .338, especially in light rifles.

I will say that, when quietly walking through "doghair" Picea Mariana aka Black Spruce with fresh, actually steaming mounds of Grizzly shit liberally dotted about the landscape, NO .270 or even an '.06 feels as good as one of my .338s!!! Actually, I have often wondered why I don't just sell all of my other rifles and keep my .338s and one .45-70 for backpacking in Bear country....probably would be the smartest gun related thing I have ever done.

Brad, you must be gettin' soft, too much "Moose Drool", eh? Better send that Montana .300 WSM to me, too much gun for you, so, I will be a good buddy and give it a nice home for you! Gawd!!! I am so kind!!!!

Had a feeling a certain subject of the crown might read my post

quote:

Kutenay’s discussion on an ideal setup for a B.C./Yukon has gotten my thinking, once again, about the .338 Winchester Magnum. Why wouldn’t it be an ideal all around rifle for use in North America.

Average hunters don't like recoil and the 338 WM kicks way too hard. Otherwise it would be a big seller and it's not. Very few live or hunt where there are large dangerous animals.

After almost half a century the 338 has settled into 22 nd. place for handloaders. (22 29 .338 WINCHESTER MAGNUM)

I have passed them up in nice rifles and will continue to do so. If faced with a choice I always go to .30 cal for the shootablility.

quote:

Why wouldn’t it be an ideal all around rifle for use in North America.

If you split N. America into north and south, somewhere a couple hundred miles north of the US-Canada border ( geographic split NOT political!!!! ). The 338 is certainly a all arounder for the northern woods. But for the southern region the 30-06 is more than enough rifle. I live on the northern range of the southern area, and grizzly is protected, Moose is at best a one in 10 year draw in most states, sheep isn't any better. Buffalo hunting is very restricted. Elk is the only real large game animal. OH sure there are a few game ranches in Texas and New Mexico with exotics, but these are an exception so to speak.

The bottom line is we are pretty much limited to deer, elk, and black bear, and for this game a 7mm or 30 in a standard caliber makes just about the perfect rifle.

Working with reduced loads on the 338 would be a interesting excersise, if memory serves Col Whelen always worked up reduced loads on his hunting rifles and spent a lot of time getting these right. He liked to shoot pot game on his hunts and used these on grouse and bunnies and such.

My question one this for you guys is have you worked up some of these reduced loads in the 338 ( not down to the Whelan level ) and how do they work, do they change the POA, and do they significantly reduce the recoil? This thread and the original one got me thinking and reading on this and I haven't had much sucess on data points on these loads.

I have mutliple times in the past looked into the quality selection of 338 bullets and lamented I didn't have a rifle to work with these bullets, but I have reached a point in my life that collecting rifles that I don't shoot regularly, just doesn't make sense.

quote:

If you split N. America into north and south, somewhere a couple hundred miles north of the US-Canada border ( geographic split NOT political!!!! ). The 338 is certainly a all arounder for the northern woods.

I won't agree with that boundtry line.

Chuck

I loved my .338 Win Mag (All-Weather Ruger M77/MkII w/Leup 1.5x5 = 8.75 lbs), but it did indeed have a sharp and brisk recoil to it. My .375 H&H RSM at 10.25 lbs (300gr at 2500fps) is noticeably more enjoyable to shoot. I never feel sore or fatigued after shooting the .375 but there were days when that .338 really belted me good on the bench! I think it must be the different recoil velocity of the rounds mentioned is all I can guess.

Certainly a .338 can be set up to offset the recoil, but short of that it's not going to be conducive to their best shooting if someone is sensitive to recoil.

Chuck,

Its a imaginary line, along a long east-west range, and most definately would jump north-south. Where do you think the the break is? My point is the hunting in what folks from Alaska call the Lower 48, has significantly smaller game and hunting opportunitues.

Edited: My reference here was strictly in refence to game ranges, and has no aspirations associated with it. But the fact is you have Whitetailed deer almost as big as a small California elk.

I think that the point that Chuck is making and that I would concur with, is that in southern Canadian hunting fields, notably in B.C. and Alberta, the Grizzly is both present in considerable numbers and fatal attacks on hunters seem to be increasing. Consequently, the .338-250 premium bullet combo is about the best solution to our problem. Also, I would whack any Bear that in my rather experienced opinion posed a danger to me or any other person regardless of legal status.

While an .06, etc., will suffice, a .338 is a much better choice for BC-AB. mountain multi-species hunting, IMHO.

Kutenay,

I have often wondered what part of BC you regularly hunted. You made reference to Black Spruce which made me think you were hunting farther north and inland. I am not fishing for your hunting sweet spot but BC is big country, and a general geographic area would help. I hunt every fall about 3-5 miles south of the BC border in the Priest Lake area, and from a moutain top can look down and see Creston BC if I climb the right hill. Yes there are some some grizzly in this country, but bears are non poltical liberatarain fellows and the border doesn't mean much to them. If they think the huckberries are sweeter on the US side of the border, they make a short trip south.

Our grizzly population is migrated south accross the border, and how they have gotten into a couple of regoins amazes me, they need to cross several rivers, and almost sheer canyons. There is one south of the Moyie river that has moved in a couple of years ago, and getting there from Canada wasn't an easy stroll.

But unless your in the Bob Marshall area of Montana, or around Glacier National Park the odds down here are very small your going to see a Grizzly. Last fall I was in the "prime" grizzly country in Idaho and I saw a lot of scat, all black bear. I have seen only 1 Grizzly in Northern Idaho and that area looking into BC.

The 338 is my favorite caliber. I have a Brown Precision rifle that will group with just about anything I put thru it. I think it recoils less than my 300Wby. Doesn't shoot as flat but flat enough for the big stuff. The more game I shoot, the more I think Elmer Keith was right.
Doug

Chuck,
I made the same deduction the year of the 338s birth as up to that time I was an avid 338-06 fan...I changed over and that was a decision I will never regret..

I have used the .338 on almost all animals in the USA and most of Africa, including a Lion and more than a few Cape Buffalo...It is my elk rifle for Idaho hands down.

My present .338, I've had for some 30 or so years is a 1935 Chilean Mauser with all the bells and whistles, but well worn for sure..I settled for two loads..A 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and a 300 Gr. woodleigh at 2400 FPS, a combination that has served me well and both impact the target at the exact same spot...

I tried most bullets and always liked the Woodleighs, Noslers in both weights, All the Northforks, but the two above worked out so well as to impact and to killing effect, I just settled on those two and to heck with the rest...

Given one rifle to hunt the world with I would certainly consider the .338 Win in the running. It would be a compromise, but a better compromise would be hard to find IMO...

combined with a 416 one could not have a better set up to hunt the whole world...

I think the .338 is part of the perfect 2 gun battery for NA when paired with a .270, 7x57, 30-06, etc.

Jeff

The 338wm could very well be the ideal around big game rifle for NA. It better then some and I would be hard pressed to say it worse then any.

I like mine killed everything I have shot with it just fine. If one is going to limit oneself to one rifle and caliber one could do a lot worse.

Felt recoil is very subjective and is based on many factors other than just caliber..That said the only two .338 Win Mags I have tried, I did not care for the recoil at all...My present 9.2x62mm will do the same job (for me) as any 338win Mag and while it kicks, it is far more pleasant to shoot. If I lived in griz country and didn't reload, I suppose I might go for a .338Win Mag, but I have shot 375H&H which were more pleasant and I might try that first.

As a handloader, the .338Win Mag of course is very versitle, but there again so is my 9.3x62mm
With all this affection for the .338 caliber in North America, I wonder when somebody is going to neck down a 9.3x62mm or even a 9.3x64 to .338..
Both should fit in a standard long action and both should give more powder capacity than the 06 based .338s if only a couple of grains in the 62mm case..

Regards,

Pete

Kick – that would be my only complaint as well. As an “all around†North American big game rifle it is just too much for the majority of the stuff that would go in that “all around†category. Whitetails, hogs, antelope, mulies – sure would kill’em deader than hell but why put up with all that recoil when those things succumb to 25 or 27 caliber rifles so easily? In my mind it’s like driving a dual wheel Ford F350 all the time when 95% of your driving is going to the store for milk.

I'd agree with Skibum that combined with a good ligher rifle like 7mm-08 or .270 you’d have a terrific “all around†pair - for North America. In fact, when I was ordering two custom rifles that's the original pair I had in mind - a .270 and a .338 WM. Went with a .30-06 and a .375 H&H instead, so I didn't do too bad.

BTW, when I say put up with the recoil, I'm not talking about the one shot at a game animal. I'm talking about the other 500 you shoot in practice.

Jim is exactly right, the "average" hunter is not a shooter. The recoil in a decently light rifle, say 8.5#, is just more than the "average" hunter is willing to put up with. If I could only have one rifle to hunt NA, it would be a .338wm. If I was restricted to two to hunt the entire world it would be a .375h&h & a something based on the 06 (.280).

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
I really like the 338. The only caveat with it in an 8lb rifle is recoil... the 338 kicks. Personally I'm past wanting to deal with its recoil in the kind of rifle I actually like to carry (8lbs all-up). Actually, the 338 has another caveat... accuracy. Of the many 338's I've had only one (an old Rem 700) was a genuine moa rifle... most gave me absolute fits! .

Living in flat country and near sea level, I am comfortable with a bit heavier rifle ; this is probably one of the reasons for my different experience with the 338.

Having only a set of bathroom scales to weigh my rifles, not sure how precise the followin weights are, but will serve as a comparison.

While weight is definately a factor in felt recoil, I think stock fit plays an equally important role.

9# Savage 338 Win Mag w/250 gr. Noslers and 9.5# Win. Mod. 70 300 Win Mag w/200 gr. Noslers very similar recoil; if any difference, the 300 kicks a bit more off the bench. The Savage shoots .625 moa and the Win. 1.75 moa. in spite of best efforts.

These rifles both have sharper recoil than the 9.5# Savage 375 h&h which has shot .470 moa w/300 gr. Noslers.

I find the 300 to be much more difficult to control (group size) off the bench than either of the larger calibers and attribute it to the different stock design.

Would be hard pressed to decide between the 338 or the 375 if I had to choose only one rifle; thank goodness I do not. Now that 300............

Regards,
hm

Sorry I didn't expound on that imaginary line any more than I did, but was a little pressed for time when I typed what I did. Kutenay pretty much nailed it, and I grew up right in the South West corner of Alberta. Litteraly in view of Glacier National Park, within horse ar walking distance. Grizzly's abound there and as Kutenay says, they're on the incease.

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Sorry I didn't expound on that imaginary line any more than I did, but was a little pressed for time when I typed what I did. Kutenay pretty much nailed it, and I grew up right in the South West corner of Alberta. Litteraly in view of Glacier National Park, within horse ar walking distance. Grizzly's abound there and as Kutenay says, they're on the incease.

Chuck

Chuck,

I agree its a swiggly line at best and the area North of eastern Washington to Western Montana on the BC side is definately bear country (hence my reference to migrating bears).

In my mind I was envisioning eastern Montana and North Dakota, where the only thing between between that area and the North pole is a barbed wire fence.

Chuck, I don't know what the grizzly bear density is where you hunt but I'll bet the grizzly density here is at least as high and possibly higher. Generally they're more of a problem for the bow and arrow crowd and the first week or two of our rifle elk season. While there's no doubt a 338 WM is potent grizzly medicine, I think there's a lot to be said for a 30-06 stoked with, say, five failsafes down the mag vs. three for a 338. Too, muzzle jump will be higher with the 338. I just ain't convinced a properly stoked 06 (or 270) can't handle that 1 in 100,000 chance of a charge and I'm absolutely convinced a 338 isn't needed for elk hunting even though it gives impressive results.

I used to have the 270 Win 338 WM two-rifle battery and I doubt there's a better one... problem with me is the heavier 338 will always get left behind for a lighter 270!

Brad, I certainly can't argue with that. In fact, I am planning on a 30-06 right now. I may need some help from you on this one. Will send a PM this weekend sometime. Heading four hours south to hunt bear in about 5 minutes.

Chuck

Schromf, I have frequently hunted, bushwhacked and wilderness worked in every area of B.C., except the Chilcoten and the Charlottes; those are on my lifetime bush list for the next few seasons; I am flying into a remote lake in the Chilcoten for Calif. Bighorn at the start of next September's season, there are lots of Moose and Grizzlies there and ALL meat transport is on one's back....NO, I am NOT taking my pair of P-64 FWT .270s!!! To hell with J'OC!!!!

Now, stopping Grizzlies with .270s, yup, guys, it's too much Moose Drool, for sure. I wonder why a certain hardcore Montanan, a good guy and the real deal as a hunter/backpacker suddenly just had to buy a Ruger MKII, in .350 Rem. Mag.....270s, indeed, WE are not amused, as the old Queen was wont to say!

I would say that the honest chance of a hunter being charged by a Grizzly in BC today is substantially greater than it was when I started hunting/bushworking; I would bet that several dozen problems occur every year, out of our 85,000+ hunters....it only takes once!

quote:

Now, stopping Grizzlies with .270s, yup, guys, it's too much Moose Drool, for sure. I wonder why a certain hardcore Montanan, a good guy and the real deal as a hunter/backpacker suddenly just had to buy a Ruger MKII, in .350 Rem. Mag.....270s, indeed, WE are not amused, as the old Queen was wont to say!

LOL, I'm a total wuss!!!

Kute you stinker, as a card carrying member of the rifle looney fraternity I'm allowed to contradict myself at least once a day (grin).

Honesty, I got the 350 as it was a small limited run and I always wanted to experiment with one. And I got it for $470 with no tax! When I got 2,620 with a 250 you could have knocked me over with a feather... and the recoil was noticeably less than a 338... now I'm thinking of making it a lot lighter so it'll actually hurt to shoot (grins)!!!

Chuck, I doubt I have much to offer for your project but if I can be of any small help I'd be honored.

C'mon now Kute... Chuck and I are onto something that's 100 years old and good... you need a proper 06' for wilderness wandering... yah know you do!

At the moment, I have a Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, an early Browning Safari, a Rimrock stocked P-64 FWT and a Brno-ZG-47 std. in .30-06 and about 800 rounds of handloads with NP 180s to feed them.....oh yeah, I NEED an .'06!

Of course, I am older than you and the disease of "gunaholism" has probably progressed that much further...................

We don't have Moose Drool here, but, in a 112 yr old building in my home town, Nelson, B.C. which was originally built as a brewery by my great-grandfather and his brother, a gentleman makes a potion which is only served in pubs there, "Nelson Face Plant".....and they mean it!

With that kind of background, how can I be expected to be "normal", which is boring, anyway. Those are pretty impressive figures from that Ruger, I have tried to get one here, but, no luck, so far....too many guns, anyway!

I think there are a lot of great cartridges that can be carried for all-around North American use, and the .338 Win. Mag. is surely one of the best and most versatile.

The two-rifle battery that Ski and Brad mentioned of something like a .270 Win. teamed with a .338 Win. Mag. would be almost impossible to beat.

But you could adopt just the .338 Win. Mag. for all your hunting, and not suffer for a lack of anything, and I know a number of guys who have done just that. They have gotten sick of messing with so many guns, and they know that familiarity with one good, solid, reliable rifle that can handle everything from pronghorn to grizzly is invaluable.

I just got back from helping a long-time hunting partner find a black bear he drew a tag for in Oregon's very, very steep and rugged Wenaha unit, and he carried a 9 lb.-complete Mark Penrod Model 70 custom .338 Win. Mag. up hill and dale, mud slides and rock slides without uttering one complaint, and my friend is 57 years old.

Personally, I'd be very happy to just hunt with a .338 Win. Mag., teamed with a .416 Rem. Mag. for total, world-wide use. I have used 210 Noslers more than any other bullet in the .338, and it not only hammers whitetails with less damage than a .270, it hammers elk with equal authority, and kills better than '06/.270-class cartridges by a considerable margin.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
Kutenay’s discussion on an ideal setup for a B.C./Yukon has gotten my thinking, once again, about the .338 Winchester Magnum. Why wouldn’t it be an ideal all around rifle for use in North America. Set up the rifle of your choice to weigh between 8 and 8.5 lbs with a barrel 22-24†in length stocked in synthetic and scoped with a medium/low variable or a good fixed power scope.

Consider the 210 grain partition or another premium of similar weight as the workhorse for most hunting conditions. Saving the option to use 250 grainers when they might be needed. Despite recoil that may bother some, what would be wrong with that type of setup to do it all?

Chuck

Chuck: I am a "one-gun hunter" in Alaska, and use a plane Jane Ruger in .338WM. I don't use any lighter that 230-grain bullet, except that maybe in a year of so will try the Barnes 3-Shock just to see how it shoots. I hunt moose in bear country, and mostly use Nosler and Swift 250 grainers, but load a few special rounds with 275-grain A-Frame bullets. These are just in case I need them for some of the large grizzly I see almost every year.

So far I have dropped most of my moose with one shot through the heart/lungs, and only had one that walked 25 yards after the shot. All others have dropped on the spot, or "almost."

Believe it or not, most bears up here (Alaska hunters) drop to the following three: .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM.

-------
Allen Day: If there was larger than .338WM cartridge I would ever want, it would be a .416. The .375 is a wonderful cartridge, too, but in reality the obvious BIG step up from the .338WM is one of the .416's.

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
NO, I am NOT taking my pair of P-64 FWT .270s!!! To hell with J'OC!!!!

Now, stopping Grizzlies with .270s, yup, guys, it's too much Moose Drool, for sure.

In his defense I will say that this was a close to ideal conditions to pull this off as possible. Barren Ground or above timberline, long range, with a backup guide. He admitted in his writting it was a less than perfect combination for the game. And stopping wasn't really in the cards..............

A grizzy in thick timber or heavy adler, no guide, and a 270 Win.........definately not a good idea. I would want a 30 mag or bigger, and bigger is better in this scenario.

Edited:

Grizzlies in North Idaho are pretty much sacrid cows of the Fish and Game dept. Big time protected, manditory investigation if you shoot one. Our only other species that is protected and babied by the F&G is our Woodland Caribou. Last count I heard of is 50-60 animals total and the only remaining Woodlands in the USA.

I really wish the Grizzly population in Northern and Central Idaho would increase, Montana has had real sucesses. If these regions had some sucesses in bear increases we might get them off the endangered species list and get to hunt them on a limited basis.

Eastern Washington, Northern Idaho and Western Montana have a very good black bear population something like 40,000 bears. This country could support a lot more grizzlies than we currently have.

Kute, the Rimrock stocked pre-64 sounds like a beauty... I love that stock. Cloward actually put a Biesen stock on a pantomime (sp) and made the molds for it... I believe it!

Allen, I ued the 210's on everything here... it flys as flat as a 150 from an 06 but hits with a hell of a lot more authority! I really doubt more bullet is needed in the 338. It has a relatively light recoil, flat trajectory, all the extra frontal area of the 33 and penetrates out of proportion to its SD. The only elk I ever dropped in its tracks was a spike bull I jumped out of his bed. Plastered him in the lungs (no big bone hit) and he went down and never got up. Also shot a nice six point bull in the ass with the 210... he went 60 yards or so and was done. The bullet made a mess and left a veritable super highway of blood. There's not a grizzly alive I'd hesitate to tackle with the 210 Partition... it's a whale of a combo. Hey, maybe I talked myself into another 338 (grin).

Sounds perfect. I have the exact same rifle, except mine has a wood stock, iron sights and is chambered in 9.3x62.

Those complaining about recoil should try a 210 Partition behind 71-72 gr of IMR 4350. I don't mind the recoil at all!! It gives more of a push than that hard whack. Fact is, a .300 Win Mag recoils more, this is something I've noticed over the years and backed up my physics(calculations by Ass Clown in another thread). My A-Bolt weighs 8 1/2 pounds with a 2-7 Leupold on it and will shoot 3/4" groups all day long. The 7X on the scope makes it tough on 400+ yard shots on mule deer, though !!!

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
in my home town, Nelson, B.C.

Kutenay,

Nelson is about 40 miles as the crow flys from where the area I regularly hunt ( usually every other year ). Home is Hayden if you know south of the border areas.

The Grizzly population in the whole Northern region of this range is estimated at 50 bears. ( Canadian side excluded ), but for certain they are migrating back aand forth across the border as a couple of the US counted bears were killed on the Canadian side in 2002. Here is a link with discussions relevant is the Selkirk area:
http://www.prvbch.com/grizzly.htm

While I am asking questions how are your mule deer populations on your side of the border? From my perspective it is steady decline, I think pressure from both elk and particularly whitetail deer has contributed to this. THis was never great muley county but it just seems to be getting worse.

One last question: How do you like your Rimrock stock, I am putting together a Pre 64 in a 280 right now, using a #3 contour ( so it won't be a featherwieght) and was serously considering using on of these stocks.

One of the choir here, I think the 338 is great as an all-arounder. Especially here in BC. But I do honestly think the 358 Norma is a superior cartridge, the reason I had the Norma built instead of a 338 a couple of years back.

8# 5 oz all up, and like Kutenay said, it feels so much more comforting to carry it while stalking the alders after moose than something with a smaller hole in the barrel!

As has also been said however, it is not at all fun to shoot off the sandbags. With 250 North Forks it will crowd 6/10" at 100 yards, but it kicks too damned hard to enjoy it. On game it feels like shooting a 22LR however, even prone it is a matter of holding the rifle to hit so I forgive it.

Something else about recoil: A well designed stock and recoil pad can make recoil much easier to take on one's shoulder. My Ruger .338WM had a "boat paddle" stock, and while there was nothing wrong with the stock, except for its looks, the recoil pad was thin and hard. I replaced this stock with a Hogue Rubber-Overmolded, and that took care of most of the recoil problem (it looks better, too).

Now, those who want maximum penetration from expanding bullets, try the 275-grain Swift A-Frame. This is the bullet I would use on the big Alaska bears if I had the chance.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
Those complaining about recoil should try a 210 Partition behind 71-72 gr of IMR 4350. I don't mind the recoil at all!! It gives more of a push than that hard whack. Fact is, a .300 Win Mag recoils more, this is something I've noticed over the years and backed up my physics(calculations by Ass Clown in another thread). My A-Bolt weighs 8 1/2 pounds with a 2-7 Leupold on it and will shoot 3/4" groups all day long. The 7X on the scope makes it tough on 400+ yard shots on mule deer, though !!!

I did a little experiment a while back. I have two Winchester Mod. 70s (.300 and .338 mag.) in the exact same configuration, Weight of the two is only ounces different, with the .300 Win. mag. the heavier of the two.
I worked up to the max load for each rifle using 200 gr. bullets. Alternating back and forth between each rifle, I determined that the .300 Win. Mag. was the harder kicking of the two with a bullet of that weight. I attribute this to the "rocket effect" from the smaller bore. Naturally, the .338 would be the harder kicking gun with heavier bullets, but not as much as you might think.
Paul B.

Paul, like you my shoulder always "felt" that was the case between the 300 WM / 338 WM. I like "semi-light" rifles so went with a Kimber Montana 300 WSM... it's about the end of the game for me recoil wise in a 7.5 lb "all-up" rifle of its power and I would definately not have a 300 WM below 8lbs "all up" weight. If I build another 338 WM I think a 8 to 8.25 lb "all-up" weight (with good recoil pad) is about right... with a 22" barrel of course!