Just another opinion on recoil. My only experience with the .338 and .300 Winchester Magnums was with two Model 700's. It's not that one can't handle the recoil. It is definitely brisk, but not brain jarring by any means. And as a big game cartridge, really big, big game, the .338 is superb.

But - when the topic is "all around" rifle the subject invariably drifts to grizzlies, the same as a question about a Plains Game African rifle always seems to somehow wind up reuiring a rifle to stopp a charging buffalo. So a show of hands, how many folks expect to kill a grizzly this year as opposed to how many folks expect to take a 250-300 pound black bear, or a 150 pound deer from a treestand in a Southern wood lot, or a called in a coyote (okay, that might be "medium" game ), or a Coues deer with a long range shot in the desert, or a sheep or mountain goat way, way up high? How many whitetails and mule deer are going to be shot in the lower 48 in places that haven't seen a grizzly in about a hundred years, if ever? All of these things have to be considered if one talks about "all around in North America".

Sure, a .338 will do everything mentioned after the grizzly part, but so will a .270 and in a much lighter rifle. Now if you want to limit the discussion to really big game, or game in grizzly country north of that squiggly line, then a .338 is the berries. But all around North America covers a lot of ground and a lot of game that just does not need a heavy rifle in a hard whacking caliber.

Now, if you want to talk about a .30-06...

Oh well, it's just discussion anyway. Poke any animal on the continent in the right place with a properly constructed bullet with a diameter of oh, for the sake of argument let's say .264 on up, and it will die.

Jim, I know what you're saying. Every time I get all wound up over this stuff, I think of J.Y. Jones who has taken every single species of North American game with a Model 700 Remington ADL in .30-06 and a Redfield scope; an outfit he bought in, I believe, 1972. His book, "One Man, One Rifle, One Land" is a must-read classic.

I get sick of the 'charging buffalo/charging grizzly' mentality myself. If you live and hunt mostly in grizzly country, that's great, but if you don't.........

On the flip side, a .338 Win. will do all that a .270 or .30-06 will do, and them some, while the reverse isn't quite true. So I guess the main reason to pack an '06 instead of a .338 is less rifle and ammo weight, and less recoil -- legit considerations, no doubt about it, for many people.

Then you have Jack Atcheson, Sr. and Jack Atcheson, Jr., who have shot the works with .338 Win. Mags. and haven't suffered any wear for it that anyone knows of.........

I know I could stick with my .300 or .338 and never look back at milder cartridges, but I do love the .270 and .30-06. They're ALL great!

AD

Well, got a bear about three hours ago. On a mission for a rug to adorn a young man's bedroom wall. Mission accomplished.

Chuck

Guys, I've a friend who guides in some of the most crowded grizzly country in NA, just north of Jellystone... his only rifle is a 30-06 and he used it to successfully defend himelf from a sow grizzly attack eight years ago.

He inadvertantly got between mama and her cubs and the old gal charged him... she litterally got him in the provebial bear hug and was clawing his back while he repeatedly clubbed at her with the butt of his 06... he finally connected whith her nose and she let go, running away. Don't tell him an 06' doesn't work on a grizzly attack

I truly and firmly do maintain, within reason, there just isn't that much difference in killing power from the 270-338 WM (+)... As an example, I've seen first hand that the 338 will generate more reaction from an elk to a hit (vs, say, the 30-06) but if there's any difference in how far that elk travels after being hit by either, I've not seen it.

The other day I had a pleasant conversation with a local pharmacist who's an avid NA hunter. Great guy and the real deal. He's collected a LOT of game over the years. Around here you never know what a guy shoots and I always ask the question somewhere in the conversation just like a pollster! Often it's one of two extremes, either something mundane like the 270 or 06 or some fire-breathing, essoteric wildcat or ultra-fag. Anyway I got to the poll question and he said "06"... has never used any other than the one gun he got as a teenager. Doesn't handload, and has used a 165 Fed boattail on everything including moose and elk. He said, "I've got a box of Federal 180 NP's at home and it's missing one round, so that must be what I used on my grizzly... I just don't remember."

I love conversation's like that...

Brad, your grizzly story is great!


I agree with you that for most situations there just isn't that much difference in killing power between most hunting cartridges. Hit 'em right, and hit 'em through the lungs with a good bullet, and you've got yourself a bull or a buck or a boar.

We have some kids working in a Portland gun store who are convinced that any bullet launched out of a .30-06 case is going to bounce off any elk, while the same bullet spit out of an Ultra-Gag is going to pick a bull up, levitate him, airplane-spin him, and finish with a thundering body slam! The fact that they haven't actually shot any elk themselves whatsoever hasn't altered their opinion one little bit!

AD

Allen that is a great stroy and entirely true!

Yeah, the guys with the least amount of time on the hill are generally the loudest in their proclomation's... as you've always said, "drug store cowboy's"... too true. "All hat, no ranch" is the expression here!

quote:

I did a little experiment a while back. I have two Winchester Mod. 70s (.300 and .338 mag.) in the exact same configuration, Weight of the two is only ounces different, with the .300 Win. mag. the heavier of the two.
I worked up to the max load for each rifle using 200 gr. bullets. Alternating back and forth between each rifle, I determined that the .300 Win. Mag. was the harder kicking of the two with a bullet of that weight

The .300 Mag and .338 Mag with the same 200 gr bullet do not really have the same characteristics from a ballistics point of view. This would include terminal ballistics and flight ballistics.

You can compare them if you like recoil wise but the ballistics are what counts most. Either discussion is spliting hairs of course and both cartridges are powerful and will make big deep holes in stuff with the right bullets.

For instance using the only Ci data that I trust Sierra's .308 200 gr SBT is .560 and the comparable weight wise .338 215 gr SBT has a .485 ballistic coefficient! Of course the sectional densities are not that close either.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
[QUOTE]You can compare them if you like recoil wise but the ballistics are what counts most.

Unless I'm quite mistaken TAHT WAS THE POINT of his experiment as he clearly stated...

The man behind the rifle is what counts the most.......

AD

Yes Brad. Then of course the comparison is invalid. That's my point.

Aside from this diversion I note a cheerful tone by many on this board.

In particular some very experianced hunters have now told a hunting story or two in other threads. There can be great enjoyment in reading these.

quote:

"All hat, no ranch"

That's one of the funniest things I've heard in quite a while.

Chuck

quote:

"All hat, no ranch"

My old time buddy of mine had pulled into a parking spot in Western VT on a dirt road. It was noon and we were not in a big hurry to get ready and were discussing strategy while looking at the steep hills.

In pulls a white pickup with gold trim extra running lights and add on chrome running boards. This is a 350 or whatever with dual rear wheels and it has Texas plates. Out pours at least six hunters and the driver is dressed like Roy Rogers with the addition of a huge white beard, 100 extra pounds of body suet and a SS rifle with a muzzle brake and thumbhole stock.

We have our rifles out in view and I am shooting a 99f in .358 Win and my buddy has a Brno 21h carbine. Nice appropiate rifles for the climb ahead of all of us.

The others are friendy too and we exchange some talk about what did you see. The thing is that there are some kids in the group obviously locals with Marlins etc. One of the youngsters speaks up and says that he just loves that rifle as Santa Claus struts around in front of us flashing his 12 lb laminated cannon this way and that.

We wished them luck and got ready to move out. You can't say anything with the kids around.

Relivant to this thread is suppose, was looking for used guns and ran across this gem. THis is a NOT SO GREAT 338 WIn Mag:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=31542118

What a waste of a nice action.

They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but I wouldn't be caught dead holding her!

Don't you recognize that rifle? It was just featured on MTV's "Pimp My Gun"!

Gentlemen, I propose we take up a collection and purchase that rifle. We then BURN that god-awful ugly stock and have it restocked as befits a FN action. Biesen, Wiebe, et al... We might then pass it among us as needed to hunt the game fields of the world, with class and style. I am therefore starting a "Save the FN" collection. All donations can be sent care of yours truly.

I only use two bullets in my .338, the 210 Nosler and the 300 gr. Woodliegh, they both print exactly the same POI at 100 and 200 yards...

But for the uneducated the 210 Nosler at 3000 FPS will penitrate as far as a 250 Nosler and further than a 275 gr. anything...It will penitrate equally as deep as the 300 gr. btw...I have tested them all many times and keep coming up with the same results..Its an outstanding bullet...I suspect this comes about because the front partition blows off, tearing hell out of everything and the smaller rear portion has little resistence and punches on out the other side leaving a dime size hole to a quarter size hole depending on the peal bac, but like its grandfather the European Tug its a killer....

Paul,, bet that guy thinks that stock is 'waycool' he is hugging it kinda funny

I saw that ad few days ago and thought about firewood.

He probably has chrome metal furniture in his house and a wife with 5" red fingernails drives a lime green and purple chysler town car

Savage, my apologies. Unfortunately there are far too many Texans that go to other states and try to impress, in effect showing everyone just what an oaf they are. Thankfully, we are not all like that, and I would like to think myself among the latter group.
And FWIW, since I can't seem to peddle my McGowen barreled coin-finished Enfield, I guess I will buy some 210-grain Partitions, load them up with AA 4350 and see what they do.
Guys, this has been a really entertaining and educational thread. From a newcomer, thank you all...

I am a long time user of the 338 Win Mag and more recently the 338 RUM. I sold the Win mag to get the RUM and was sorry, because all the extra velocity was not worth the noise and recoil of the RUM. So, I sold the RUM and was in the market for another Win Mag and nearly grabbed up a Ruger 77 used for $360 when I opted for a 338-06 24 inch bbl for my Encore rifle.

Since I reload all of my rifle ammo, there was no compromise in the ammo availability area, and i always enjoy the challenge of a new round to load up. I was very surprised at the results of load development and the ease of sizing the 06 brass and stuffing in .338 bullets. Using W760 180 gr Noslers do 3000 fps, while the 210 Noslers do 2800 fps. 225 gr Speers do 2710 and the 250 gr Sierras do 2612 fps with IMR 4350. All this at safe pressures with easy extraction. ME is between 3600 and 3750 FP, with the sierra gamekings delivering over 2400 FP at 300 yards.

In a good CRF bolt rifle, I see no need for the 338 Win Mag in the lower 48, and the pucker factor in Alaskan bear country would be modest with a 250 partition in the pipe for experienced hunters used to dealing with big bruins. The .313 sectional density of the 250s is a bit higher than the 375 H&H 300 grainer and the velocity is a bit higher in the 338-06, so penetration is not the issue.

In response to Schromf re: Mule Deer populations in the Kootenays, they are not too good. Forty years ago, there were lots of Mowich, but, forest fire suppression, protection of predators, urbanization of winter habitat and perhaps some competition with increasing Whitetail and Elk populations have put them into a grave situation. I would like to see them restricted to Limited Entry status only for some time and the foregoing problems resolved, however, the government doesn't give a rat's ass about hunters and wildlife, so, I am not optimistic.

As to the Rimrock stock, I have had the P-64 FWT. with it on since about 1992 and my P-64 .375H&H is being fitted withh a Rimrock right now; I also just bought another which will go on a pristine P-64 FWT in .270 Win. This rifle is a "spare" to my older P-64 FWT. in .270 which wears a Brown Precision. I like the Rimrock stock and consider it a good value and a well made piece of equipment.

I currently own synthetic stocks by Micky, Brown, Clifton Arms and Rimrock, I also intend to get a couple of Bansner's for light projects. I would say that the Rimrock is as good as any and I have zero complaints about it/them.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Savage, my apologies. Unfortunately there are far too many Texans that go to other states and try to impress, in effect showing everyone just what an oaf they are. Thankfully, we are not all like that, and I would like to think myself among the latter group.
And FWIW, since I can't seem to peddle my McGowen barreled coin-finished Enfield, I guess I will buy some 210-grain Partitions, load them up with AA 4350 and see what they do.
Guys, this has been a really entertaining and educational thread. From a newcomer, thank you all...

Thanks for the comment. I was just having fun with the incident and admitting that we did get trumped. My buddy had a brand new Chevy Trailblazer too. His is a very dull charcoal grey however. Not a interesting color at all.

Heck, I am not above showing pics of my stuff. I was just making conversation.

When you get to know me better here you will conclude that if the kids were not there that I would have walked up to Santa Claus and asked him all about his gun.

quote:

I would have walked up to Santa Claus and asked him all about his gun.

He may tote a 375 H7H for problem Polar Bears but it's certainly not needed for Reindeer... a 270 would be more than adequate.

"Custom" 98: Oh my god....Well, at least it's laminated wood. It would be a killing offence if that was done to a 50 yr. old piece of walnut.

The 338 is an excellent caliber. If you practice, are realistic about your abilities and don't attach any "mystical" powers to the round.

I my experience the casual shooter would be better served with an '06, 270 or 308 for recoil reasons.

I've owned a couple of 338's, they shot well and killed well, I just like to shoot more and the recoil wasn't much fun.

As always, its the nut on the bolt that counts.

most important thing is the guy who stands behind a gun,u can have bigest caliber but if u are not calm u are srewed,bullet has to have the certain power but most important thing is you,

guy - what is your preoccupation with bringing back dead threads? start a new topic if you wish but jeez.

seems that around here threads die a natural death when they have exhausted themselves. get with the program.

I have never owned a 338 Win Mag. I probably never will...

I have killed an elk with a 340 Weatherby Mag.

I now use a 300 Win Mag, and a 375 H&H...

I have shot several 338 Win Mags, that belonged to my buddies...

I consider the 338 Win Mag one of the BEST calibres for bigger NA game starting with elk, going up to moose and the big bears...

It is a most excellent calibre IMHO...

It is a great choice for the bigger North American game, IMHO...