Reading the current thread, "If you Had to be a one gun man", got me to thinking again of the 35 Whelen vs. 338 WM and their respective effective ranges.

I do not reload anymore (did 40 years ago. Yow!). Consequently, I shoot factory ammo. Looking at "Ammo & Ballistics 5", it seems that the fastest 250 gr. 338WM load is 2660 fps (excluding A-Square, which doesn't seem to be in business anymore). The fastest 250 gr. 35 Whelen load is 2550fps. Yes, I read handloaders on AR that load up this bullet in their 338s to 2700 or more, but I also read the same thing for the 35W, loading that bullet to 2600 or more. It seems that the 338 wins by about 100fps.

My wife and I have both taken elk with both the 338WM and the 35W each. We haven't lost an elk yet hit with either cartridge.

Here's my thought/question. What is the effective range of the 35 Whelen?

I use both cartridges when I hunt elk. I like them both very much. But in my mind, I have reserved the 35W for when I thought the distance would be around 250 yards or less, and the 338WM if I anticipated a longer shot.

Looking at the ballistic charts in the "A & B 5" book, I compared the rounds that I use hunting: Fed. Prem. 250 gr. @ 2660fps for my 338WM and Nosler Custom 250 gr. @ 2550fps for the 35W. Both use the 250 gr. Nosler Partition.

At 300 yds. the bullet drop difference is 1". In hunting terms, this is negligible IMO. At 400 yds. the difference is 3". That favors the 338WM, but on an animal the size of elk or moose, it isn't nearly as critical as it would be on an antelope or deer. I probably have that much error trying to hold my rifle steady.

At 300 yds. the energy levels are:
338WM--2495 ft. lbs.
35W----2215 ft. lbs.

At 400 yds.:
338WM--2120 ft. lbs.
35W----1861 ft. lbs.

All of this is adequate for elk IMHO.

Bottom line: It seems the 35 Whelen is as much a 300-400 yd. elk rifle as my 338WM.

What say you?

I have both and enjoy each. I also handload. I am and have been a Nosler bullet proponent. When my Whelen was being built, I did my usual copious research to start working up a load. Also bought some loaded Nosler 225g ABs on sale. The factory loads claimed 2750 fps. NOT on my speed gun ! I recorded an average of 200 fps slower. My 225g handload gave me 2670 fps. While 2550 fps w/ a 225g bullet is nothing to yawn over, it is well shy of the 338 WM. 300 yds, yes. Factory 35 Whelen at 400 yds in my opinion is stretching it.

My son and I both use the .35 Whelen in northern N.M. with great success. His last bull lasered 363 yards and because of a cow could not get closer. His chart(taped to his butstock) showed the 225 TSX would drop 19" from his zero at that range. The hard part was trying to hold 10" over the back at that range. He felt he should shoot again immediately which he did. The bull whirled and was hit again, but # 2 was unnecessary since the first one did the trick.
My last bull was shot with the .35 at a whoping 44 yds with a 250 Speer. It wasn't my fault he was that close!!!

As far as you can place the bullet into the lungs or heart.

My .35 Whelen dropped a bull elk at 301 yards with one shot from a Nosler 225 grain partition. I used shooting sticks and take them with me all the time.

With my 200 yard sight in, I held even with the top of his back and squeezed it off.....

It'll shoot and kill at longer distances but I'm not too sure about me..... and that goes for anything I hunt with.....

I have never felt under gunned with the Whelen.

Since you no longer handload anymore, you might consider the factory ammo situation. I think I can still get 338 ammo at local Walmarts here in the west. The whelen ammo is pretty much non-existent in these parts right now, and this is Elk and Moose country.
Matt

I think 2500. is all i ever got from my old 35 Whelen.
I think 2550 is a little optimistic. The whelen is a fine round , but to me the .338 win mag has more power , and the Nosler accubonds really have great ballistic numbers.
Its hard to fault either round though.
...tj3006

I think the 338 will out penetrate the 35 Whelen due to its narrower frontal diameter and slightly faster velocity.

This assumes they are shooting bullets of the same weight and construction. Whether the difference in penetration would be significant or not I can't say.

If it means the difference between a bullet which stays inside the animal or one that exits...I'd prefer the one that exits.

To really compare these cartridges one should consider their optimum loadings.

The 338WM can shoot the 225TTSX at 2800-2850fps. With its added velocity, extreme bullet integrity, high BC (.514), and similar SD (.281 over .279 in 35-250gn) I consider the 338WM is the better all-around elk cartridge.

The 35Whelen would make a great elk rifle. The 338WinMag is just a step ahead, though under 250 yards there would not be any noticeable difference.

In my 35 Whelen, a 24" 1 in 12 700 Remington. I use mostly 225 Ballistic Tips. When they were discontinued I bought a bunch. I also use the 225 Accubonds, as well as 250 Partitions. Every rifle is a law unto itself, and I do handload. All of my 225's are going down range @ 2725-2750FPS. With these ballistics, I do not feel shortchanged if I have to take a shot out at 400 yds. Now I never have shot an elk at that distance, as I like to get close. My longest shot has been 225 yds, and the recovered bullet a Ballistic Tip weighed 206 grains. The Whelen is a fine large game rifle, and I don't believe you'd be under gunned with any North American game Animal. Same with the 338. Let me through this out there, my shooting partner, also has a 24" Whelen, he gets 2800" FPS with a 250 grain Nosler Partition and RL15. Bullet zips right thru a buffalo @ 80yds. Jerry

Mr. Eden, not doubting your numbers at all, but they are way over anything published ( for the older Whelen, newer 338/06AI or even the 338 WM).

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
Mr. Eden, not doubting your numbers at all, but they are way over anything published ( for the older Whelen, newer 338/06AI or even the 338 WM).

+1.

a person needs to be careful about irresponsible load data on the web. Not that such a load couldn't be achieved, but one should never assume that a "340Weatherby load" is matched by the 35Whelen, normally, under safe conditions. On AmmoGuide, a passal of posters (96) listed loads for the 35Whelen and 250grain bullets. They ranged from 2298fps to 2598fps. that is a far cry from 2800fps.

It is safe to say that 2800fps is not a responsible, expected, reliable 250gn load for discussions on the 35Whelen.

PS: 2700fps for a 225grain bullet in 35Whelen is responsible and falls within expectations for the calibre. The same AmmoGuide source had 54 posters for 225 grain bullets. 53 of them ranged from 2148fps to 2713fps. Then the last 'yahoo' posted a 2841fps with a 22" barrel, which is basically a max/hot 338WM load.

Incidentally, the notes by that "2841fps"-poster ring true. He admitted that there was a 200fps jump created by only a change in seating depth with the same components. He mentioned that he thought that his chronograph might be off. [I would agree!] I've had occasional jumps of 200fps on chronographs. And repeat testing strongly suggests that the events were just that, chronograph malfunctions.
(Or does one want to believe that a 350 grain TSX .416" with 102.5gn Rel 17 in a 416Rigby would normally test as 2800-2825fps and then one day start producing multiple 3000-3050fps in the same rifle with SAME components, with easy extraction and rounded primers?! No way. The Chrony in the African sun was unreliable one day. That is a much more reasonable theory. [Was it a reflection from something, a flective spot on a sunscreen or sunscreen post? Was a sensor jarred off-angle by the road trip? I don't know and haven't duplicated the anomaly.])

I think to claim that the .338 Win Mag will kill x yards further than the .35 Whelen is surely picking pretty small nits.
They are both very fine medium caliber hunting rifles. And to say the .35 Whelen is even close to the very fine .338 Win Mag is a very high compliment.
Personally I would, and did, pick the .35 Whelen. When I was making plans for my Zimbabwe safari, the choice was between two rifles; my Ruger 77R MkII 24" in .338 Win Mag and my Remington 700 Classic 22" in .35 Whelen.
The Ruger had a better trigger and was more accurate than the Remington (7/8" to 1.1"). It also had more energy - 225 gr NP .338 at 2880 fps vs 250 NP .358 at 2586 fps.
However I chose the Remington because it weighed a pound less, had far less recoil, and the .338 had a great deal of muzzle flash and blast while the .35 Whelen's recoil felt like a stout 30/06 load and there was no muzzle flash.
On my hunt, the Whelen struck like the hammer of Thor.
Just the opinion of a devoted .35 Whelen fan.
Your experiences may differ but are entirely as valid as mine.

Back in the 1990's I exchanged letters with Ross Seyfried commenting on an article he wrote about his love of the 270 / 280 in which he wrote the "Nostalgic and neuralgic 35 Whelen" would be poorer choice for longer shots etc. Paraphrasing. I had and have a 25.5 inch old custom 35 Whelen that at the time I was running 225 grain Barnes X, the originals, in and doing so at 2821 fps. I made the argument that at 400 yards, there was less than 4" of difference and that I knew of nobody that shooting from field positions could hold less than that. He politely agreed with my points but then stated politely that for the "common man" his 270 /280 would be far easier to hit with, considering recoil, and also that my pressures were beyond 60K psi, again not a normal circumstance. He was correct on both points and I kept the letter in my copy of "Pet Loads" under the 35 Whelen pages. Not to argue the same points about the great .338 Win Mag, but just to say, The Whelen is a great hunting round to way out there, at least in my book. 400 yards on game is way out there, and with a svelte 225 grain bullet, the Whelen would be deadly on Elk. Nowadays, my old Whelen shoots only 290 grain Cast bullets and mostly uses it's Peep sight to direct them. Kills whitetail at 250 yards not problem.
Best regards!

I have both and I'm more inclined to say the 210 Nolser in my .338 shoots best at 3000 FPS and bests my 35 Whelan for way out yonder, and my 9.3x62 beats the 35 Whelen at close range..all that said I wouldn't feel bad with anyone of them for long or short range hunting. My Whelen has one serious fault as a hunting rifle, It's a Jack Haugh custom rife and its just too damn pretty to hunt with!!

I shot a coyote at 318 yards with my 35. Factory 200 gr Superformance. At that distance, impact velocity was way down, but the song dog never knew it. IMHO, the 35 is a splendid cartridge. I use it for Alabama deer to plains game across the pond, with the 225 Accubond being the bullet of choice for Africa.

quote:

Since you no longer handload anymore, you might consider the factory ammo situation. I think I can still get 338 ammo at local Walmarts here in the west. The whelen ammo is pretty much non-existent in these parts right now, and this is Elk and Moose country.

To me, that is the more important aspect of the whole discussion and situation.

I regularly use a Model 77 Ruger Tang Safety rifle in .35 Whelen which I had re-barreled with a 26 inch ER Shaw barrel and it is wonderful with 225 Grain Barnes "X" Flat Base. Even though I am not all that comfortable taking 300 to 400 yard shots, I know that the gun and load are capable of it, I just question my own abilities but anything under 300 I have no real problem with.

But as is pointed out in the quoted statement above, unless you are handloading and carrying plenty of extra ammo in case you have to re-sight the rifle, finding factory ammo is going to be difficult at best.

With those parameters in place the .338 WM or even the .340 Weatherby would be better choices, I have had both and preferred the .340, but the .338 is more than adequate.

The effective range of a 35 Whelen is well beyond where the average shooter should be attempting a shot. Of course the same is true of most chamberings.

I can't see an elk at 200yds much less 400yds. I do pretty good at 100yds but 50 would be better. My one and only Elk was actually killed with a 35 Whelen with a handload. It was a handload because it was probably 30 years before the Whelen became a factory load. Incidentally it was shot at about 75 yds.

I don't know what the effective range is on any caliber, I know what my effective range is with any caliber..I'm good with a 35 Whelen up to 300 yards under most conditions and with a proper bullet. I'm good to 200 yards with my 25-35 or 30-30..I would take a 400 yard shot under ideal conditions with my Whelen, like a good rest and broadside or looking at me, I probably wouldn't miss his vitals..but I sure have let a lot of them walk off at 400 as I can usually get a hundred yards closer if I work at it. I like to do my hunting before I do my shooting and feel like 300 is max for big game...I have seen too many legs shot off by long range shooters, they also have the most selective memory on that subject, than anyone else in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't know what the effective range is on any caliber, I know what my effective range is with any caliber..I'm good with a 35 Whelen up to 300 yards under most conditions and with a proper bullet. I'm good to 200 yards with my 25-35 or 30-30..I would take a 400 yard shot under ideal conditions with my Whelen, like a good rest and broadside or looking at me, I probably wouldn't miss his vitals..but I sure have let a lot of them walk off at 400 as I can usually get a hundred yards closer if I work at it. I like to do my hunting before I do my shooting and feel like 300 is max for big game...I have seen too many legs shot off by long range shooters, they also have the most selective memory on that subject, than anyone else in the world.

I like this post and consider it a realistic assessment of first round hit probability.

Something I have noticed, extending decades before my birth, is that gunwriters tend to stretch the distance to promote their favorites, ignoring the capabilities of shooters. The average shooter is educated by these writers to think that they should expect to hit animals at 400, 500, 600, and even 1000 yards with the first shot, but these readers don't shoot enough to find out what their shooting capabilities are. I have been match shooting for decades and I can tell you, the new shooter, the beginning shooter, seldom does his calculated zeros correspond to what he gets at the end of the string, and incidentally, their groupings are closer to patterns than clusters. Many times I have been on the line, watching through my spotting scope, trying to get these guys on target. Often you can walk their impacts up berm till they hit the 8 foot by 8 foot target. Conditions for seeing a bullet trace require nice sunlight with no wind to wash out the mirage. Sometimes you get those conditions, sometimes you don't. If they are over the berm life becomes frustrating for the match director, scorer, and the poor pit pigs as the workload of all increase. Calls will come down to the pits "can you hear the shots?". Well, usually no, because anything passing over the berm sounds pretty much like any other shot passing over the berm.

I have also noticed over the years, how zeros change, given the same load, same rifle, at the same range. Your ending zero is never exactly the same as last match, maybe a click or two different, close, but not exact for elevation, and windage, windage is always different. There are several ranges I have shot at for decades now, I am familiar with wind conditions, and yet estimating wind conditions at 1000 yards I am very happy if my first shot hits the eight ring or less (22 inches from center). It is seldom that my first shot at 1000 yards is in the black (eight ring) given a combination of hold and wind conditions. At 600 yards, I am very happy if my first shot is within the 9 nine (nine inches from center), ecstatic if it hits the ten ring (five inches from center) , and down right suspicious if it hits the X ring ( 3 inches from center) . Too many times has a first sighting shot been an X, and the next shot been anywhere but the X ring. What I have found, shooting matches, is that you learn what wind flag, what wind flag position, what mirage condition, is trustworthy for that day, as the string commences. The idea that you can at long range, expect regular pin wheel hits on the first shot, something that gun writers promote, is laughable. But shooters expect that, because that is what they read in the popular press, and worse, in Long Range forums.

It is therefore my considered opinion, given the vagaries of wind, distance, and hold, that 300 yards is a long way for a first shot, and distances beyond that are marksmanship equivalents of "Hail Mary's"

Believe what you see with your own eyes and ignore the gabblings of gunwriters.

Guys I have been away for a while sorry. You are correct, the velocity of the 250 Whelen @ 2800 fps is a mistake. It is 2700fps. Thanks for pointing this out. I wouldn't want someone to try to drive this bullet too hard, and get into problems. Thanks

Jerry

My longest shot with the .35 Whelen was an a big bull elk at around 350-375 yards. I was shooting 250 grain Interlock SP handloads and made a bad call on range. I thought the bull was right at the 300 yard mark and decided to take the shot based on a solid rest. Obviously the bullet dropped low, but even at that range, the bullet had enough energy to shatter the on-side leg and blow a big hole on the off side. I caught up with the bull shortly and finished things.

Not how I wanted things to go, but here's what I take from it:
(1) I now carry a range finder in the field. Estimating range at bow hunting distances is much easier than trying to figure out whether an animal is at 300 or 375 yards
(2) A 250 grain Interlock at 2450 fps from the .35 Whelen delivers more than enough power at the ranges you should be shooting big game at
(3) Your rifle probably has more range that you can use in the field unless you practice A LOT.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
My longest shot with the .35 Whelen was an a big bull elk at around 350-375 yards. I was shooting 250 grain Interlock SP handloads and made a bad call on range. I thought the bull was right at the 300 yard mark and decided to take the shot based on a solid rest. Obviously the bullet dropped low, but even at that range, the bullet had enough energy to shatter the on-side leg and blow a big hole on the off side. I caught up with the bull shortly and finished things.

Not how I wanted things to go, but here's what I take from it:
(1) I now carry a range finder in the field. Estimating range at bow hunting distances is much easier than trying to figure out whether an animal is at 300 or 375 yards
(2) A 250 grain Interlock at 2450 fps from the .35 Whelen delivers more than enough power at the ranges you should be shooting big game at
(3) Your rifle probably has more range that you can use in the field unless you practice A LOT.

Thank you for the real life situation.

As I look at ballistic charts for the .375BC in the .358" 250 Hornady bullet at 2450 fps I find the following.

drop at 300 yards with a 2.1" sightin (100yd) is -12.6", 10mph winddrift is 9.8"

At 350 yards the drop is -21.7" and 13.6" drift

At 375 yards the drop is -27.3" and 15.7" drift.


First of all, the Hornady bullet was very lucky to hit the leg since any wind between the shooter and target could have pushed the bullet inches one way or another.
Second, it looks like the 35Whelen bullet dropped about a whole foot below intended impact.

The rangefinder is definitely a step in the right direction. However, with the possibility of a long shot (300 yards is a long shot) doesn't a faster velocity and better BC make sense? For example, a 338WM with a 225gn bullet and .514BC at 2835fps has the following drops as for the above situation:

300 yard -6.2" with 5.6" drift

350 yard -11.8" with 7.7" drift

375 yard -15.2" with 10.1" drift
The differential between the intended impact (-6") and the actual impact (approx -13.5") is only -7.5". So, a 338WM would have hit 4.5" higher with only 2/3 the winddrift.

Someone using a 270 with a 129LRX at 3125fps would only have a 6" differential, making it impact a full 6" higher than the Whelen in the example.

I learn from this that a good rangefinder is almost a necessary piece of equipment for these shots, and I would want 2800fps or better in a rifle where 300yard shots are possible. We each make our choices.
(PS: I am not taking any moral high ground on this. I, too, once took a "300 yard" shot on an impala. As a rule of thumb I don't want to take a shot where one aims above "hair". We saw dust kick up beside the front leg. It was a wide open situation, no cover between my tree and the alert impala, and the rangefinder was with my partner about 50 yards and a tree away. After taking the shot we were shocked to range the tree next to where the impala had stood at 450 yards. It can happen. The drop differential was -two feet.)

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
The effective range of a 35 Whelen is well beyond where the average shooter should be attempting a shot. Of course the same is true of most chamberings.

Agree. If I was good enough, I know I am not, I know my Whelen is good enough for a 400yard shot. Have shot stell rams with mine at 500mts but would not try this on game.

The question of chronograph velocity's comes up often. One thing I have noticed using a chrony is that a slight up/downward slant on th eunit gives a fast reading. I use a level to make sure mine is dead flat, not all do.

strange,
the geometry of the sensors would make the bullet path the hypotenuse, which is longer than the base sensor separation.

As longer, it should register slower when not level with the bullet path.

this will ruin most opinions on flat shooting rounds

http://www.shooterscalculator....oint-blank-range.php

quote:

the geometry of the sensors would make the bullet path the hypotenuse, which is longer than the base sensor separation. As longer, it should register slower when not level with the bullet path.

quote:

The question of chronograph velocity's comes up often. One thing I have noticed using a chrony is that a slight up/downward slant on th eunit gives a fast reading. I use a level to make sure mine is dead flat, not all do.

the geometry of the sensors would make the bullet path the hypotenuse, which is longer than the base sensor separation.

As longer, it should register slower when not level with the bullet path.

I set my Chrony up using a bubble level. This ruler used to have a laser, and I would aim that laser at either the pistol target, or the rifle rest. Unfortunately the laser died.


In my experience with this Chrony, alignment is critical. I cannot say if velocities are more or less depending on cant, I don't remember. Shooting directly over the sensors is critical as slightly off axis shots have given me spurious velocities, the ones I remember were high, very high. Muzzle blast confuses the chronograph. Long barreled rifles create erroneous readings, and so do large charges of slow burning powders. The residue must confuse the sensors. I had to move the chronograph out to 15 yards from the muzzle, maybe more, to get reliable velocities with a blackpowder musket.

Even with reliable velocity data, I do not fully trust table or book values for bullet drop. My elevation zeros are close, but never exact to what the tables predict. Elevation tables are just a guide and your actual results will be different. I do not know why, maybe it has to do with me, the way I move under recoil, maybe something else. I will say the further I go out, the greater the difference between an actual elevation zero and a predicted value. Still, if you have a good 300 yard zero, you will be close to center at 500 and 600 yards, with standard come up's. But you have to know your zero and you have to have shot it at the longer range to verify the zero at distance. Something else not mentioned in these long range discussions is the error due to the scope or irons not being perfectly in parallel or perpendicular to the axis bore. This will create elevation and windage offset. And another thing, at long range, there is bullet drift. At least I think it is bullet drift. It could be something else, but I have fired enough times in boiling mirage and yet the windage is always slightly left or right from my zero windage at close range. It could be sight offset, or it could be bullet drift, could be gremlins, or it could be me.


It is my opinion that the more you shoot known distance, on paper, the less confident you will be about hitting center at long range with the first shot

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
this will ruin most opinions on flat shooting rounds

http://www.shooterscalculator....oint-blank-range.php

I'm not sure that I follow. It is pretty close to most other ballistics outputs.

However, one does need to be careful of one quirk in that program. It calculates the "maximum" potential PBR with the trajectory going over the line of sight as far as half of the animal's vital target. I find that to be misleading for normal hunting and especially for mixed-bag hunting where more than one animal will be taken.
Let me explain.

If I shoot at a large animal with an 16" vital zone, the calculator will find a trajectory that stays within 8" over the line of sight. That would be very unreliable in many hunting situations. At the midrange, something very hard to judge accurately, the bullet will be on the top edge of the vital zone and with virtually no margin for error on the top side. That would be a bad shooting arrangement. Imagine the problem if presented with a face shot on a dangerous game animal. All of a sudden an 8" margin of error is ridiculous and something around 0"-2" is preferred. I would not want to touch the top of the boss on a cape buffalo.

Instead, I set the maximum arc height of my programs at 2.1" over the line of sight. For rifles 2500-2800fps that usually gives 2" as the 100-yard sight in and a Point-Blank-Range just over 200 yards. I then learn the drop at 300 and 400 yards. For rounds 3000-3400fps the sight-in is usually 1.5-2.0" at 100 yards and the POINT-BLANK range steps out at 250-300 yards. Again, I learn the drop at 300 and 400 yards, as well as windage.

The important thing is knowing that I will not be shooting over my target as closer ranges. Also, at medium ranges it puts me closer to the middle of the vital zone, which is more practical in most hunting situations.

And if I need to make an ACCURATE shot at an ear or between the eyes or under a big branch, I can do it.

For my particular situation, there were a few things left out. The elk were feeding through a very large open meadow at the base of a mountain first thing in the morning. I was on a guided horseback hunt, and we had just come to the edge of the woods when we saw the elk across the meadow. There was zero wind as it was a calm morning, and the elk had no idea we were there.

Normally I try to hold a little lower on the chest and go for a heart shot, but on the elk I went center mass for the double lung hit. Being from the east coast, having the first elk in my cross hairs wearing the head gear this one had had me shaking with bull fever. Aiming higher than normal, with a heavy dose of luck, saved the shot for me.

All that said, in this situation, it was definitely the shooter and not the cartridge or rifle that was at fault. Given an unaware animal in the open at something over 300 yards on the second to last day of a hunt, I feel it was a very reasonable shot opportunity that the .35 Whelen was more than up to.

you can go on TV any Saturday morning and see guys shoot deer, antelope or elk at 1000 to 2000 yards with all the new equipment out there and these guys are good shots,no doubting that..BUT never doubt they have selective memory banks..it's just too easy to break a leg, make a gut shot. Its also easy to misjudge wind, range finders are not 100%, or a multitude of other events that wound at that range..I am not guessing I have witnessed these things on a couple of occasions. I'm not judging these folks, I simply know what I have seen. I have seen also the same results with folks without all the new equipment that do the same thing at 400 and 500 yards..

My point being its better to be a hunter as opposed to a shooter..but to each his own, and its legal, but is it ethical is the question I pose..I won't argue the points btw.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

the geometry of the sensors would make the bullet path the hypotenuse, which is longer than the base sensor separation. As longer, it should register slower when not level with the bullet path.

quote:

The question of chronograph velocity's comes up often. One thing I have noticed using a chrony is that a slight up/downward slant on th eunit gives a fast reading. I use a level to make sure mine is dead flat, not all do.

the geometry of the sensors would make the bullet path the hypotenuse, which is longer than the base sensor separation.

As longer, it should register slower when not level with the bullet path.

I set my Chrony up using a bubble level. This ruler used to have a laser, and I would aim that laser at either the pistol target, or the rifle rest. Unfortunately the laser died.


In my experience with this Chrony, alignment is critical. I cannot say if velocities are more or less depending on cant, I don't remember. Shooting directly over the sensors is critical as slightly off axis shots have given me spurious velocities, the ones I remember were high, very high. Muzzle blast confuses the chronograph. Long barreled rifles create erroneous readings, and so do large charges of slow burning powders. The residue must confuse the sensors. I had to move the chronograph out to 15 yards from the muzzle, maybe more, to get reliable velocities with a blackpowder musket.

Even with reliable velocity data, I do not fully trust table or book values for bullet drop. My elevation zeros are close, but never exact to what the tables predict. Elevation tables are just a guide and your actual results will be different. I do not know why, maybe it has to do with me, the way I move under recoil, maybe something else. I will say the further I go out, the greater the difference between an actual elevation zero and a predicted value. Still, if you have a good 300 yard zero, you will be close to center at 500 and 600 yards, with standard come up's. But you have to know your zero and you have to have shot it at the longer range to verify the zero at distance. Something else not mentioned in these long range discussions is the error due to the scope or irons not being perfectly in parallel or perpendicular to the axis bore. This will create elevation and windage offset. And another thing, at long range, there is bullet drift. At least I think it is bullet drift. It could be something else, but I have fired enough times in boiling mirage and yet the windage is always slightly left or right from my zero windage at close range. It could be sight offset, or it could be bullet drift, could be gremlins, or it could be me.


It is my opinion that the more you shoot known distance, on paper, the less confident you will be about hitting center at long range with the first shot

One of the differences you are talking about is density~altitude, d~a changes as the temp, humidity, barometric pressure and attitude changes.
Scopes definitely don't need to be mounted parralel to the bore
For long range shooting it is common to use a canted base with 15-40 moa can't in them to allow the scope to be adjusted up enough for long range.

With several years of high power comp.shooting range estimating is a little easier although my whelen is 35AI with a 25.5"pipe its been drug around AK. several times 2 moose at over 300 yds 225gr swift one a 120 yds never used on elk yet at 350yds you should knock them off there feet. I also think that I could hit one at much longer range but the condtion would have to be perfict dont want the first shot in the guts. Kevin