30-06 cartridge variations...

11 July 2002, 17:35

<waldog>

Unquestionably, the ol' 30-06 is the original, the standard, and ultimately the most versitle. Because of abundacy and ambition, we have gotten several fine cartridges over the years all based upon it's case. But here is the question, for the question's sake....

Of all the rounds-- bigger and smaller-- based upon the 06 case, which two are your favorite? Which ones above and below, are the most notable and worth of mention?

Just thought it would be fun to hear some ideas on this...

12 July 2002, 03:04

<eldeguello>

Smaller- the .280 Remington. Larger-the .338/'06!

12 July 2002, 03:38

bobvthunter

I have to agree that the .280Rem and the .338-06 are the best derivatives of the .30-06, if we look at it strictly from a ballistics standpoint. Both the .280 and .338-06 are flatter shooting, have more velocity, more energy, better sectional density, better ballistic coefficients, and have more bullets available to the reloader than their closest .30-06 derivatives, the .270Win and .35Whelen respectively. However I recently traded a .280Rem on a .270Win. Why, if I feel that the .280 is superior to the .270??? Tradition. Hunting with a .270 conjures up images of the adventures of Jack O'Connor and his peers. Sorry for the sentimental ramblings... My answer to your question is the .280 Rem and .338-06!

12 July 2002, 04:29

fla3006

I have more 30-06's than anything else. Of the derivatives, I mainly shoot 270's. I think probably the best, however, is the 280, particularly the Ackley version. On the upper side, I'd like to have an 8mm(323)-06 which looks great on paper. It should have an edge over the 8x57 which is a powerhouse when properly handloaded.

12 July 2002, 04:50

Brad

quote:
Originally posted by eldeguello:
Smaller- the .280 Remington. Larger-the .338/'06!

I concur!

12 July 2002, 04:59

GeorgeS

On the small end, the .25-06. It handles the bullets from 75gr. to 120gr. and has a very flat trajectory.

On the large end, the .35 Whelen would be my choice. With bullets from 180gr. to 250gr. it hits very hard and makes a nice big hole.

George

12 July 2002, 05:23

Paul H

On the larger end, that is easy, 35 whelen.

On the smaller end, honestly none of them really interest me at all, but, I am a 6.5mm nut, so I'd take a 6.5mm, but would also go to the added grief of moving the shoulder forward and sharpening it up. If were talking simply neck downs, then the 6.5-06.

12 July 2002, 07:25

Rob1SG

I think the 25-06 on the small end and of course the 338-06 on the top.The 338-06 is only 100-200 fps behind the 338 WM.

12 July 2002, 08:07

fredj338

Definetly the (2) I have; the .280 & the .338-06. There is nothing really wrong w/ the 0riginal 06 or the .270, it's just that everyone has one!

12 July 2002, 11:21

HunterJim

I own a 6.5-'06 and a .35 Whelen in addition to a .30-'06, so that sounds like votes to me.

But looking at effectiveness and suitability, I like the .280 Ackley Improved and one of the .375-'06 variations. (You could slide the 9.3X62 in there on the top end too.)

jim dodd

12 July 2002, 16:05

craigster

I'll have to go with the 25-06 and the 35 Whelen.

12 July 2002, 17:05

<Harry>

If I can not have the parent then I will take the 280 and the 9.3 x 62...If you won't let me have 9.3 I will take the 35 W.

12 July 2002, 23:07

1894

9.3x62 is not strictly speaking a 30-06 based round, there are subtle rim and base differences. Try using the redding 30-06 die with RWS 9.3x62 brass!

13 July 2002, 00:09

Deerdogs

Aren't all those '06 cartridges the children of the x57 Mauser?

13 July 2002, 00:18

<Orion>

AMEN!!!!

weidmannsheil

martin

13 July 2002, 10:40

bearhunt'r

The 22.250 and the .338 Win mag.!
Guess I should go back and read the post again? [Big Grin]

best,
bhtr

13 July 2002, 12:22

carcano91

quote:
Originally posted by waldog:
Unquestionably, the ol' 30-06 is the original, the standard,

It is the copy; the derivative.

quote:
Of all the rounds-- bigger and smaller-- based upon the 06 case, which two are your favorite?

My favourite is the one and only original, upon which the .30-03 and .30-06 was based. The M/88 case.

Carcano

13 July 2002, 13:04

ALF

14 July 2002, 06:09

NitroX

For me the predecessors of the 30-06, the 8x57mm and the 7x57mm.

The originals and the best. What other cartridges (eg the 30-06) were copied from.

14 July 2002, 07:19

ALF

17 July 2002, 18:25

Lou270

Tough choice as I like them all, but my 2 favorites are the .270 and the .280. I don't think you can find a more efficient package of velocity, energy, trajectory, and light recoil than these 2 rounds and consider them inter-changeable. Besides, If I really needed a bigger bullet for something, I'd probably opt for a bit more case as well to flatten trajectory. Now, if I had to pick 1 bigger and 1 smaller, it would be the .270 and .35 Whelen.

-Lou

18 July 2002, 03:06

sdgunslinger

The 30/06 rim and base dimentions may have been copied from the 8 and 7x57 s , but the 06 case is very argueably a superior design to either for general sporting purposes ..........

18 July 2002, 04:11

Nebraska

Fun Topic!!!!

I'd vote for the 25-06 and 280 Rem. The 6.5-06 would've edged out the 25-06 and received my vote if it were a factory round. Maybe some day!

18 July 2002, 05:15

Pecos41

I think I'll do the 270 and the .35 Whelen.

18 July 2002, 06:48

okie john

The 250 Savage, because the process that led to it also led to so many other good cartridges, and the 300 gr. loading of the 333 OKH, because it showed what the 30-06 case could do with heavy bullets.

If I may interpret your criteria a bit more liberally, say as "anything with a roughly .473" head diameter," I'll take the 7x57 and the 9.3x62, because together, they cover the waterfront. I know they are both older than the 30-06 and thus cannot be based on it, but once you have a 7mm and a 9.3, all you need is a 505 and the right hat. Okie John.

18 July 2002, 08:23

P. Steve Morgan

What about the factory loads called "Lite Magnums"? Are they noticably hotter? Is it OK to shoot them in a Remington autoloader? The reason I ask is that my brother bought a used Model 742 in 30-06 and shot about 15 of those Lite Magnums through it and now it won't work. Did he break a part of the gun due to excessive pressure?

18 July 2002, 08:54

Bill M

If he would have read the box, it plainly states that the Lite Magnum ammo is only suitable for use in bolt action and other fixed breach firearms, and NOT for use in any autoloaders. Hope he didn't injure himself!

(Edited to add) Yes, he probably broke the gun due to excess pressure.

Bill

[ 07-17-2002, 23:55: Message edited by: Bill M ]

18 July 2002, 09:26

Battle River

270 has been my mainstay deer gun for a long time and feel it has optimum ballistics/recoil/handling than any magnum for deer sized game. I am not a fan of larger than 30 use of this case as I will not give up the velocity and range compared to the bigger cases.

19 July 2002, 02:50

P. Steve Morgan

Bill,
That's what I thought. I didn't look closely at the box, but have messed up some .22 autoloaders with Stingers and figured the same thing happened here.

19 July 2002, 02:58

Bill M

P. Steve,

I bought a few boxes of 308 Win 165 SST Lite Magnums that I planned on shooting in an M1A. Then I remembered reading something about "not for use in autoloaders".... I took another look at the box, and sure enough, in the "fine print", it warns against use in autoloaders. Good thing I also have a bolt action in 308 Win....

Hope he doesn't have too much damage to the gun, I'd start with the operating rod and pray that the bolt/barrel lugs are OK. Keep us posted.

Best regards, Bill

19 July 2002, 03:38

Dutch

Though I must admit that our European friends have a prolific cottage industry engaged in the firearms industry, I must take exception to the presumption this makes the European industry "better", "bigger", or anthing else.

Somehow, I am not impressed with a Brit producing 4 guns per year by hand that shoot loose or off face in less than 5,000 shots, and require a $5,000 factory tune-up.

As far as '06 derivatives, I'd say the 6 mm BR is the very best at the low end. Superb accuracy, and enough versatility to hunt most of the worlds varmints and smaller deer. On the larger side, I would pick the 308: again, easy to load, and enough power for everything except dangerous game. FWIW, Dutch

20 July 2002, 02:34

P. Steve Morgan

Bill,
I just talked to the family gunsmith (dad) and it appears to him that the gun has been damaged where the bolt lugs go up into the barrel and twist. He said that the lugs and/or grooves that the lugs slide into are damaged and he can't get the bolt out. I've watched him fix guns for 30 years and finally he's stumped. He is going to call Remington and see what to do next.

20 July 2002, 02:53

Bill M

Bummer!... That doesn't sound like a "remove and replace" fix.

Thanks for the info.

Bill

20 July 2002, 04:59

dan belisle

Let me just look in the old gun closet so i can play this game. Hmmm, -06 derivatives, you say? Well, 240 gibbs, 6.5-06, 270 (X 2), 280 Rem, 7mm Gibbs, 30-06 Ackley, 8mm-06 Ackley, 338-06, and 35 Whelen. Tough call, but I think i would go with the 280 and the 35. FWIW - Dan

31 May 2006, 04:17

tera

quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
The M88 case was a DMK production with the following derivatives: The original 8x57 was not for a Mauser but for a Mannlicher rifle. A: Mauser: 1. 8x57R A case 2. 8x57R B case 3. 8X57R C case 4. 8x42R 5. 8X51R 6. 8x57 F case 7. 8x57 G case 8. 8x51 B: Other: 1. 5x57 2. 6x56 3. 6x58 4. 6x58R 5. 6.5x54 mauser 7. 6.5x57 meigg 8. 6.5x57 le personne 9. 6.5x57 persian 10. 6.5x57R mauser 11. 6.5x58 Port mauser 12. 6.5x59 angier 13. 6.5x63 Neuber 14. 6.5x65 RWS 15. 6.5x65R RWS C: Chinese mauser and other) 1. 6.8x57 Chinese mauser 2. 6.8x60 chinese mauser 3. various 7x57 M88 based experimentals +/- 12 in total. also 5.6x57 RWS and 5.6x57R RWS The 7x57 mauser is not a M88 case derivative but the M93 case derivative. there are 5 original calibers based on this case.

Everything calibrates them that you mention ALF
It is normal because in Europe there was one truths boum in the field of munition it is is damage that certain calibre his party in is forgotten.
But this bang in armourer it is to unwind of the appearance of the first one munition has central percussion if it had had no first world war her there would have go on

31 May 2006, 04:26

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
On the small end, the .25-06. It handles the bullets from 75gr. to 120gr. and has a very flat trajectory. On the large end, the .35 Whelen would be my choice. With bullets from 180gr. to 250gr. it hits very hard and makes a nice big hole. George

BINGGO

roger

31 May 2006, 09:12

seafire/B17G

If we are talking, not shortening the case, or modifying it in any way, except necking up or down...

My two votes would be the 270 and the 338/06...

cheers
seafire

31 May 2006, 10:38

boom stick

what! no hawk carts?!

no howell carts?!

338-06 and 340 howell

35 whelen and 350 howell

270 win and 270 howell

no personal experience with these but they deserve some attention. the one that i think is cool too is the 411 express which is a slightly longer 411 hawk made by z-hat.

of the more used ones i vote the 6.5-06 and 338-06

31 May 2006, 13:14

vapodog

quote:
Quoted by BoomStick
i vote the 6.5-06 and 338-06 thumb

I think he's on to something.

I suppose we can't refer to the 9.3 X 62 as a "'06" derivative.

31 May 2006, 14:59

Bent Fossdal

The one winner is the 8mm-06.
It will launch a 200 grs bullet with a SD above .270 at 2800 f/s.

A .338 -06 will be faster at that weight, but with much lower SD and BC.

A .30-06 will be as fast with a 180 grs bullet, wich is less weight, and lower energy.

If to pick two, the .270Win. and .35Whelen.