I am going to buy a new M70 Sporter to match my M70 SE .375. I have plenty of other rifles, including some chambered it the cartridges mentioned. I am just looking for a traveling companion for the .375 for African hunting with the same feel, trigger, etc.

It is always possible to bump into an eland or other tough antelope while hunting plains game so whichever choice is made it will be fed good 180 grain handloads. I really don't like to shoot African game at distances further than 200 yards or so, certainly not when shooting with sticks. Light recoiling rifles are always more fun to shoot, but 30-06 for eland?

300 win mag won't kill anything any deader, by driving the same bullet a little faster.

I'd look to an 06, especially if your plan is if stay under 200 and shoot a good bullet like the TSX that's known to penetrate well

After some previous issues with them on game I don't shoot TSX anymore. There are other good choices for me.

This is not a question about everyone's favorite bullet but rather about good choices of cartridges for large antelope. If I let my wife use the rifle the 30-06 is the clear winner, however...

For Africa (because like Texas everything is bigger) I would think the 300 WM would be better suited for everything above the camp food category. If you want something for the smaller game and camp meat then the 30-'06 is as good as any and better than most. It just depends on the job you expect the gun to perform.

Seamaster,

I think if using the same 180 gr bullet in each you'll only gain a little flatter trajectory with the 300 over the '06. I don't think you'll see a noteable difference is performance on game.

Mark

Why not use the .375 with 250gr TTSX? You can push it at 2800 fps, and that should be good for any tough plains game.

And use the 30-06 for smaller game.

For 200-250 yard shots, the 30-06 will work fine.

No important difference in cartridges here.

But you are limited to 11 pounds for ammo + lock + case. If you are going on a longer wild safari or a body count farm hunt, ammo weight might make a measurable difference, when bringing 2 rifles of different caliber. Especially if you are no better than an average shot. Don't be too tuff on your self as to shooting ability, what PHs consider an average shot for their clients is actually quite appalling.

quote:

For 200-250 yard shots, the 30-06 will work fine.

I agree with everyone in favor of the 30/06 and what a classy pair a 30/06 and a .375, nice!

Seems to me the issue boils down to two variables: trajectory and energy.

Assuming the following:

Trajectory:

1) 180 grain Nosler Partition Spitzer bullet in both (BC .474).
2) 2700 fps (.30-06) and 3000 fps (.300 WM)
3) You accept a vital area of +/— 6.75 inches
4) Scope is mounted 1.5 in above bore.

If these parameters are okay with you, the Maximum Point Blank Range of the .30-06 will be at about 320 yards, while that of the .300 WM would be at about 420 yards. The .300 WM wins by 100 yards

Energy

Now lets assume that you are concerned about the energy of the bullet at impact. If you require, say a minimum of 2000 ft lbs, then the .300 WM produces that at about 420 yards, but the .30-06 does so at about 270 yards. So in this case, the .300 WM beats the .30-06 by about 150 yards.

In the case of energy, how much is required? In the case of trajectory (and ignoring wind), at what range do you not feel confident?

Is this a reasonable way to look at this question? Have I made any errors here?

I appreciate the responses that actually addressed the subject. How many here have actually taken an eland with a 30-06, and at what distance?

I use the .300wm on nearly all plains game unless I have the .375 handy. I would use the .375 and have some fun.

I shot a very nice eland at about 150 yards in Namibia with my Model 70 30-06 using 180 grain Norma Oryx bonded core bullets. He died about the same as if I'd have shot him with a 375 H&H, or a .458 for that matter.

Seamaster,

I have not killed an eland with a 30-06 and I don't think it's really eland medicine. I know many eland have been killed with the '06 but my measure of adequacy of a caliber for a particular species is whether you could take a going away shot on that animal with that caliber and expect to reach the vitals. I would not shoot an eland in the arse with a 30-06 but I would with a 338 or 375 using a heavy bullet.

We are talking about a trophy hunt here so to my mind you need a cartridge/bullet combo that you can use when your trophy is encountered regardless of the shot presented. I love the '06 but it's less than optimum for eland.

Mark

I agree that the lighter recoiling rifles are fun to shoot, that's why I use my Model 70 SE 375 H&H.

I've taken steenbok to cape buffalo with it and a lot of stuff in between and it's all I carry in Africa.

The .375 H&H is a great cartridge, but it's obsolete at least for dangerous game given the various .416 cartriges available. IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The .375 H&H is a great cartridge, but it's obsolete at least for dangerous game given the various .416 cartriges available. IMHO

No offence, but in my opinion, that's one funny opinion (Humble or otherwise). Having no dangerous game hunting experience, I don't really have a leg to stand on when making such comments. However, I would bet that the 3-7-5 will remain the most ubiquitous DG round 50 years from now. Although hunting in Africa May be a thing of the past by then.

I vote 30-06. With the right bullets (200grn partition) the 06' is far more capable than most folks would imagine.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Seamaster,

I have not killed an eland with a 30-06 and I don't think it's really eland medicine. I know many eland have been killed with the '06 but my measure of adequacy of a caliber for a particular species is whether you could take a going away shot on that animal with that caliber and expect to reach the vitals. I would not shoot an eland in the arse with a 30-06 but I would with a 338 or 375 using a heavy bullet.

We are talking about a trophy hunt here so to my mind you need a cartridge/bullet combo that you can use when your trophy is encountered regardless of the shot presented. I love the '06 but it's less than optimum for eland.

Mark

Mark, wouldn't your decision be dependent on range? I mean, given the same bullet, would you take an arse shot at 300 yards with a .300 WM, but not at 75 with a .30-06?

quote:

Originally posted by Seamaster:
After some previous issues with them on game I don't shoot TSX anymore. There are other good choices for me.

This is not a question about everyone's favorite bullet but rather about good choices of cartridges for large antelope. If I let my wife use the rifle the 30-06 is the clear winner, however...

(And that thumbs up for the 30-06 is from an O'Connor fan.)

The 30-06 is a great all-around cartridge and will do fine out to 300 yards, farther with a rangefinder and plenty of range practice. (Personally, I prefer the 300WM, but would recommend the 30-06 as a pair to the 375. They are a classic pair.)

However, if your wife will also be shooting, I would also recommend finding some lighter 375 loads like a 235-250 grain .375" at 2500-2600fps. (Barnes TTSX, CEB 235 long-range raptor, and 250gn GSC would all serve as all-around bullets, and many lead-core bullets can be added.)

I appreciate the responses that actually addressed the subject of 30-06 v 300WM. It is odd to see so many opinions about my 375 and other matters ancillary to the proposed topic.

The heavy bullet (180/200) traveling a couple hundred fps faster will of course have more energy. The 300WM is my favorite elk rifle.

It is remotely possible that I can talk my wife into shooting a warthog or an impala this next trip. She does very well with her .270 on deer and elk but has not wanted to shoot while in Africa yet.

How many here other than Tsquare2 have actually taken an eland with a 30-06, and at what distance?

Thanks guys!

quote:

Originally posted by Seamaster:
After some previous issues with them on game I don't shoot TSX anymore. There are other good choices for me.

This is not a question about everyone's favorite bullet but rather about good choices of cartridges for large antelope. If I let my wife use the rifle the 30-06 is the clear winner, however...

Its the bullet that makes the cartridge adequate or not.

They will both work great with the right bullet of course.

You will have to pick a different variable than performance to make a pick.

30-06 brass and ammo is easier to find. It costs less too.

B L O'Conner,

I guess my point was that IMO a 30 caliber anything is less than ideal for eland. As Seamaster said though my comments did not address his question. My apologies!

Mark

Nothing wrong with either I'd say

I most always use the 30-06, as my second gun, and end up shooting it more than the other larger gun.. I am completely confident in it..

But its not a better choice than my handloaded 300 H&H, that performs miracles with a 200 gr. Woodligh at 3000 FPS, it just lighter and easier to pack...

I've never shot an Eland. But being that a bull averages about or slightly larger than a bull moose, and a 30-06 is oft considered an ideal moose caliber, you would have quite the argument to make that it wouldn't work great on Eland at close to moderate range.

The wife and I took my .300 Win Mag to South Africa in 2012 for a plains game hunt. I shot an Impala, Kudu, Zebra, Gemsbok and a Blue Wildebeest, and my wife shot a warthog with the rifle. In every case except for the Zebra, I had complete pass through at ranges out to 375 yards (follow-up shots to put the Gemsbok down). I was shooting factory Barnes Vortx 180 grain TTSX bullets.

-John

Either of your choices will work but I would not use either for eland if my 375 was handy. If recoil is a consideration for your wife maybe the 30-06 would be better but if she shoots a 270 well, let her shoot that.
If you really want to use a 30 on eland that is fine too but would not be my first choice. At over a ton, they may not require a bigger caliber but it certainly helps.

I never shoot a unwounded animal in the arse its not respect for the animal.

I have killed an eland with the 300 WSM at 180 yards and I dropped it dead in its tracks. I have both the 30-06 and the 300 WSM, and prefer the 300 WSM.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
B L O'Conner,

I guess my point was that IMO a 30 caliber anything is less than ideal for eland. As Seamaster said though my comments did not address his question. My apologies!

Mark

Mark,

I appreciate your point of view, and agree. I have no intention of using a 30 caliber rifle on an eland if my 375 is on hand, but would like my lighter rifle to be adequate (if not ideal) - if needed. I have clear memories of stalking an impala, warthog, etc. and having a herd of something bigger just pop out of nowhere.

It is I that should apologize for asking a question that was perhaps too specific. Some of the other fellows apparently don't understand my question at all.

Thanks for your insight.

Seamaster

I used a 30-06 on an Eland in Namibia in 2010. One shot at about 100 yards facing me, shot him in the center of the chest with 220 grain factory Remington Core loks. At the shot he fell on his knees, stood back up, took a few staggering steps and went down.

Thanks for the good responses guys. I may just have to flip a coin.

Lotsa post about how the '06 is almost as good as the 300, etc,etc. None of them say it's better. Sometimes you need a little extra thump to get the job done in a workmanlike manner. It's better to have and not need it than the other way around.

My point, inarticulate as it was stated, is that I'd go up rather than down if I wanted a companion rifle to a .375. The .375 is a great cartridge and is a good long range cartridge as well. I've carried a .375 to Africa multiple times. It's always been my light rifle. Frankly, it's a good one-gun battery should you choose to go that route.

Ive never shot an eland or anything larger than an 800 lb bull elk. Past 200 yards I would much prefer the extra horsepower of the 300 over the 06 for just about any big game. Id be inclined to go with the 300 wsm but a 300 H&H would be the most classic pairing with your 375.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
My point, inarticulate as it was stated, is that I'd go up rather than down if I wanted a companion rifle to a .375. The .375 is a great cartridge and is a good long range cartridge as well. I've carried a .375 to Africa multiple times. It's always been my light rifle. Frankly, it's a good one-gun battery should you choose to go that route.

Now you're talking.

Traditionally, the next significant jump up leads people to the .458 Win//Lott. The 416Rigby is only a major step up when handloaded hot. So a companion 458 Lott sounds pretty good.

Again, for your wife, she could practice with a load down around 2400-2600fps in the .375 with a 235 grain CEB, 250 grain TTSX, or a 200grain GSC. The last bullet could be run at 2600-2700fps and stay within the comfort zone of someone used to a 270 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by specneeds:
Ive never shot an eland or anything larger than an 800 lb bull elk. Past 200 yards I would much prefer the extra horsepower of the 300 over the 06 for just about any big game. Id be inclined to go with the 300 wsm but a 300 H&H would be the most classic pairing with your 375.

And that is a good rationale for a 416 Rigby shooting handloaded 350 grainers at 2800+fps. But that is a highly specialized combo and one that is ultimately designed as a one-rifle, one-load affair.

As a second to a 375H&H I'd probably go 458 Lott. The cases will look nice together. (Just like the 375 Ruger looks nice with the 500 AccRel. Pictures available on request. )

For shots at 200 meters and closer, I see no point in having a 300 WM instead of a 30-06.

It is when you want to shoot at animals at longer ranges than 200 meters, a 300 WM shines compared with a 30-06.

On my first trip to Africa, my intention was to shoot nothing farther away than 200 yards. That intention changed after my first shot, which was taken at a hartebeest at about 260 long strides. After that my limit was 300 yards and I managed to keep that resolve.

I was shooting a .300 H&H with 180 grain Silvertips and it served me well for everything from dik-dik to wildebeest, but both my elands were taken with my .375 H&H.

I don't have any information from ballistic tables to back up my opinion, but I don't think any .30 caliber cartridge is adequate for an animal of that size, after seeing well hit oryx and waterbuck refuse to die, even when on the ground, from .30 caliber bullets in the heart/lung area.