thats pretty much it . I,m thinking about a long range caribou rifle .

Pick one. Both are too close to eachother in performance to matter. One has a belt, the other does not. I have the 7STW and 300 RUM in Winchester model 70's.

Neither one. Why waste all that powder when the 7MM RSAUM will do the same ballisticly & do it more accurately.

338 rum then you'll have plenty of power for the bears you could run into.

I am surprise gumboot you are even considering something less the 338 caliber.

I agree with those who don't recommend either.

I had a 7 RUM

Although I never had the chance to shoot an animal with it before I ditched it, I shot plenty of long range targets after load development. I didn't see any better ability for the RUM to make hits out to 1000 than other more reasonable cartridges that I have. Its barrel life is around 750 rounds and burns about 100 grains of powder every time you pull the trigger.

On the other hand, it's flatter shooting with a 160 Accubond than a 22-250 is with a 55 grain and delivers a heck of a lot of energy.

If I was set on 7 mm, I'd choose one that I could shoot twice as long before it wears out.

Better? The .300 RUM

7STW is a good one, or just just up to the 300RUM.

7mm Dakota, check out the new Hornady loading manual, it is a 3200+ fps cartridge with a 160 grain bullet!

If you want something to take ANYTHING on North America and most of Africa and the world and will do it at long range the 338 RUM.

My 338 RUM is a Remington 700 Sendaro and it is one of the most accurate rifles I have including varmint cartridges sub 1.25" three shot groups at 200 yards!

As far as the 7mm which was your question I have a reworked Sako with a Kreiger barrel and it will shoot 160 grain bullets in .091" at 100 yards and has the energy, 3637 flbs, to put the thump on large animals at distance.

708 remington
max point blank range ..
708 - 285 yards
7 stw - 313 yards
7 ultra 314 yards...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

1/2 recoil and noise, 30 yards difference ..

7x64 splits the difference, btw

btw, 30-378 is about 340 yards. while a 308 is about 290 yards ... 50 yards different, for "long range" hunting?

the bmg is 281 yards ...

go figure.. get a 708

+another to the 338RUM. Mines a Rem 700 trued with factory barrel. 300RUM also damn good. I likey both of em. Never was interested in the 7mm RUM. If I had to go 7mm supper mag it would be the 7mmSTW.

Gumboot, I am pretty sure you have stated that you at least have access to possibly one 375 H&H, why not that with 210 or 235 grain Barnes bullets.

With a 200 yard zero the 235 "X" flat base drops only 8 inches at 300 yards.

Something leads me to believe that is well within your capabilities.

That way you could carry along some heavier rounds in case you did get crosswise with a bear.

I am surprised at you also, but unless you just want one of the "New" 7mm's, I wpould stick with the 7mm Rem Mag and 140 to 160 grain bullets.

Unless you are going in for 600 to 1000 yard shots, the 7RM will take out any caribou on the planet at 500 yards with 140 to 160 grain bullets.

If you just want a new rifle get the one that you like the best and have fun.

The only way a 7 STW can approach the 7 RUM ballistically is to be loaded to over the top pressures. Some of the early loads were wildly optimistic and when pressure tested found to be 75-80k psi. That's why it's a lot tamer round in newer reloading manuals.

I had identical rifles in 7 RUM and 300 RUM. The 7 RUM shot well but the 300 RUM shot GREAT so I sold the 7 and kept the 300. I might be wrong but I think that the 7 RUM might be just enough to far overbore to be more difficult to get to shoot well. 300 RUM's are simple, get 200gr Accubonds and load Retumbo..........................DJ

Read this from 6mmBR.com. you will see why you just don't need those huge cases.

7saum

Hey Doug how's it going? I still love those swivels BTW .

Interesting link. Probably a must read for WSM shooters wanting the best accuracy.

The one thing I'd note is that none of their loads listed have been pressure tested. Might be a little warm.

For long range accuracy the WSM's are the way to go. For another couple hundred fps at the same pressure the RUM's are the way.........................DJ

It really depends upon your definition of long range. Considering a 280 Remington is capable of taking caribou out to 500 yards than I will assume that your definition is 500 plus. It this case either one would work but I give the edge to the RUM.

On the topic of the early 7STW loads being too hot, nonsense. I had one built when Layne place the article of it in Shooting Times and shot lots of those loadings and I never had any pressure signs, and in addition shot quite a few of the A-Square factory loads too without a hitch. I feel the 7STW was degraded so as to make room for the "new" 7 RUM. I have zero issues with shooting the "early" 7STW loadings from the older loading manuals or any that Layne published. Again, no real difference between the 7STW and the 7RUM.

yes I have larger rounds . And I like the 7 mm because I loathe the 30 calibers . .
Winter subsistance caribou can mean quite a bit of wind . I like the RUM s in the stainless model 700 s .
.I will moly tumble the bullets to keep the temps down . and prolly shot mono metal bullets . .
This rifle would be set up with a big scope and a brake . probly even a bipod . . Would be used with a range rinder and the goal is 700 yrd capability . IME mono metal bullets keep the blood shock to a minimum with high velocity rounds ..
The advantage of the 7 stw is I can make brass from lots of other carts .
.I,ve thot about the 7 Dakota on a Ruger 77 mkII . BUT , I don,t feel the velocity gain over the standard 7 mag. warrents the cost . Same with the short RUM . I want a zoomer . .
.I prolly won,t burn out the barrel as I won,t have long shooting sessions . Just enough to get good enough ..
Thankyou for the link . .lots of good info ...

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
On the topic of the early 7STW loads being too hot, nonsense. I had one built when Layne place the article of it in Shooting Times and shot lots of those loadings and I never had any pressure signs, and in addition shot quite a few of the A-Square factory loads too without a hitch.

The thing is that they actually PRESSURE TESTED the loads and found them too hot. It's not conjecture it was scientifically proven valid data. In some rifles you can load from close to 75,000 to 80,000 psi without seeing some of the traditional "pressure signs" and that's exactly what happened with the early 7 STW loads. It's not conjecture it's proven fact....................DJ

When I saw the article in shooting times on the 7mmstw I built one and liked it ever since, The rum and stw are pretty much the same. Find which you can get ammo for where you live and there is the best one. Thats all anyone can really tell you.

The 7mm RUM with a 160 gr AB over Retumbo will get you 3300 fps. Flat shooting and plenty of retained energy down range.

JD338

quote:

Originally posted by sb42:
When I saw the article in shooting times on the 7mmstw I built one and liked it ever since, The rum and stw are pretty much the same.

They really aren't the same.

The RUM has a larger case capacity and loaded to the same pressures it will ALWAYS shoot the same bullets faster than the STW.

Nothing wrong with the STW it just won't go as fast as the RUM and stay within normal pressures...........................DJ

Neither! I went 7mmDakota. I get 7STW performance w/o the belt & vel very close to the RUM w/ less powder & bbl wear. Between those two, go 7STW. In my 26" bbl Ruger #1, I can push 160grNP @ 3200fps w/ room to spare.

quote:

708 remington
max point blank range ..
708 - 285 yards
7 stw - 313 yards
7 ultra 314 yards...

Come on jeff, no one really thinks a 7-08 is equiv to any of the magnums @ any range. The 7STW delivers a 160gr bullet @ 200yds w/ more gas than the 7-08 has at the muzzle. Kind of the reason for going to a mag in the first place IMO, to launch heavier bullet faster than a non mag.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Neither! I went 7mmDakota. I get 7STW performance w/o the belt & vel very close to the RUM w/ less powder & bbl wear. Between those two, go 7STW. In my 26" bbl Ruger #1, I can push 160grNP @ 3200fps w/ room to spare.

Not a bad choice. I sold my 7 RUM but kept my 7 Dakota:




.............................DJ

I,m suprised no one has voted for the standard old 7 mmRemington mag.
To the best of my memory ,I,ve only had 1 , 7 mag. it was a stainless synthetic model 700 . would shoot 1 5/8" @ 200 yrds with factory Federal 150 gr . and that with a 4 x Burris . I bougjt it used at Great Northern . It shot well with 160 gr X bullets also . But now I want more speed . 3300 with a 160 ought to work ...

That Dakota is pretty . Id,e be nervous of the wood stock tho.

I have the 7mm Rem and it pushes the 160gr bullet at 3030 fps. I'm happy with that.

Well it seems Remington still has the 7 RUM in the SPS . But then I will have to add bases and rings . And a trigger . I hate the X trigger . Would prolly get the rifle and scope it , See if it wants to shoot well , if it does I,ll have the base screws opened up to the 8 x40 screw and a new trigger .
.
Thats the big reason to stick with the old 7 mag . , Buy a Ruger , if it shots well I,m good to go . Just 300 fps less velocity .
.
That 300 fps will cost over a $ per fps over the Ruger .

Rum, no stinking belt...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
That 300 fps will cost over a $ per fps over the Ruger .

What, based on factory ammo, who shoots factory ammo? The RUM does use a lot mor epwoder to get that 300fps & your bbl is toast a lot faster, but some feel the need for speed.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Rum, no stinking belt...

Rich

Yeah, the reason I had the #1 rechambered to 7mm Dakota. It already shot well, I could get 3050fps /w a 160grNP, but it still shoots well & I can get 3250fps if I stretch it, 3200fps easily.

djpaintless those a couple of gorgeous guns!! I guess though i dont see the big deal with dealing with a belted case. I have many mag rifles and never had a belt get in my way!

I would pick niether one for Alaska.A 338 edge the 300 ultra mag necked up to 338.If there is a cheap way to build a 338 lapua is even better.Its going toi stick around a long time with the military using it.I use the 338-378 but the 338 lapua in a lighter 9 pound rifle with a brake would be the trick for the ultimate long rang Alaska gun.Without the bears around in the Winter you could use 300 serria match kings and pop caribou out to 1000 yards!!!

A 280 Remington is all you need....

M

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I would pick niether one for Alaska.A 338 edge the 300 ultra mag necked up to 338.If there is a cheap way to build a 338 lapua is even better.Its going toi stick around a long time with the military using it.I use the 338-378 but the 338 lapua in a lighter 9 pound rifle with a brake would be the trick for the ultimate long rang Alaska gun.Without the bears around in the Winter you could use 300 serria match kings and pop caribou out to 1000 yards!!!

338 RUM fits that nitch and many, including me, have had damn good accuracy. Well under the cost and usually the weight of a Lapua. Not that the Lapua isn't fantastic...just that I consider the 338RUM the poors mans Lapua.

If you're in North America and and need more gun than the 338RUM....the Lapua aint gonna get the job done neither.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
708 remington
max point blank range ..
708 - 285 yards
7 stw - 313 yards
7 ultra 314 yards...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm

1/2 recoil and noise, 30 yards difference ..

I like your thinking, but a long(er) range 7mm for me would be .280AI, 7 Rem Mag, or 7 SAUM
to give a bit more down range energy for the game I would use a 7mm for...

I know some custom gun manufacturers are not willing to make the rum because they have to scrap alot of their actions/barrels, Mine shoots great! they are said to be finicky, maybe I got lucky, either way I would not trade it for another.

300 RUM., only because i own one. LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by metric:
A 280 Remington is all you need....

M

My fav deer size game round, but it's pretty far from my 7mm Dakota, like 400fps min. That is enough of a diff in traj to matter for shots past 300yds & does carry a heavier bullet faster for bigger game. I'll never sell my 280 though.

Came across this article, written by a fellow New Zealand hunter (nice guy, met him a couple of times).

www.ballisticstudies.com/Resou...actical+Magnum..html