Citori3,

I was an avid JB Compound/Butch's Bore Shine/Kroil cleaning fan, until I tried Wipe-Out bore cleaner. This stuff is great and will 'wipeout' (pardon the pun) all of the built up layers of powder fouling & copper fouling that years of insufficient cleaning will leave.

Extremely simple to use and the instructions are detailed to the point of clarifying the type of fouling present during each patching based on the color of the patch. You just squirt the product in the barrel from the muzzle end and let it sit for 24 hours to start. Patch it the next day and check for color. Repeat until no color is present.

I've left a rifle sitting in a locked reloading room for a week, applying Wipe-Out at night and patching the next evening, until no color appears. No scrubbing with JB, no brushing, no checking for copper with Sweets, no patch, after patch, after patch, after patch. Completely harmless to the barrel - unlike a lot of other bore cleaners.

I still a fan of JB Compound/Butch's/Kroil, but give any new/used rifle a thorough cleaning with Wipe-Out first. Even the other members of the stable get a Wipe Out cleaning after a few regular cleanings just to check.

Here is a link to Wipe-Out:

http://www.paulcousa.com/wipeout.htm

Hope this helps,
Clay

To all those that suggested I use my M-70 for this class, THANK YOU! I mounted a Leupold VX II 3X9 on it and put on a cheapo Ranline stock. After I sighted in the scope with federal FMJ ammo, I loaded up some federal gold match to see how well I could do at 100 yards. Of ten rounds of the gold match fired, I used one round to adjust for the different load. I then fired a four shot group and a five shot group. Both measure 1 1/8" center to center of the furthest holes. This is far better than I've ever shot before. I don't know if it was the scope, the stock, or the ammo, and I don't care. I couldn't be more pleased!

Citori3,

Great groups! Congratulations on getting everything working to your satisfaction. That's great.

I understand that the new Vari-X II has 1/4 MOA click adjustments, replacing the older non-click 1/2 MOA model (like I have on a couple of rifles).

Did they send you the newer click adjustment scope or the older model? Did they give you a choice?

Just curious. Thanks!

[ 06-16-2003, 08:48: Message edited by: Kenati ]

Hi
I have owned both pushfeed and CRF rifles in the past and have not had a problem with either except for a snapped extractor claw on a Brno mini-mauser in 222.

I have however seen more people jam up CRF actions by working them slowly or short stroking them. (Remember that the Mauser action was first a military rifle and hence designed to be handle forceably, this it excells in.)

Personal choice is to go with the Rem700.

Stay safe
JohnC

Borealis Bob,

Good catch Buffalo Rock is where I've been doing my shooting. I'm in Glenview so it's at least 1 1/2 hours each way. I wish there were a closer alternative! As I said, Illinois isn't rifle country!

Kenati,

My scope is the 1/4 moa click adjust model. It's in Leupold QD mounts and rings. I was very pleased at how easily it all came together. I hade redfield mounts and installing the old Bushnell in those was a chore.

Citori3,

quote:

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Illinois isn't rifle country

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Any particular reason for that? I wasn't aware about that of Illinois so I'm just curious.

Savage,

Can't hunt big game (deer) with rifles in Illinois. It's shotgun only. Given the fact that northern Illinois Is relatively densely populated, it's tough to find places to shoot. As I said, I have to drive nearly two hours each way when I go shooting.

Citori3, that makes sense. I guess living in northern Alberta where there is lots and lots of open space we tend to forget about the more populated areas. Thanks.

citori3, I'm glad to see that you listened to everyone and stuck with your Model 70. That's a good rifle, and I bet you've only begun to scratch the surface of what it's capable of. If you now pay careful attention to the bedding of your new stock (something that makes a HUGE difference) and tailor your handloads, you'll be amazed at what you can achieve.

Plus it's a .30-06 and that is tough to beat.

Here is a good question - and not to restate any questions which have already been asked, but anyway it goes like this. I am somewhat of an expierenced rifleman although not with something like 40 years of it. I like all of the medium calibers and have shot quite a few of them and have had mainly Rugers and Remingtons and Brownings. I find myself yearning for a 30-06 in a Winchester SuperGrade! However, some say that Winchester isn't too swooft on accuracy these days - I don't know because I've never owned one! Any user comments on this rifle or a standard Model 70 Sporter Classic in the '06 or the .308 are needed and welcomed!! Thank you.

Sizzlebird, I've only owned the one Winchester and it was in .30-06. I didn't have any accuracy problems and the fit and finish was quite good. Each rifle is different though. You might have to play around with some different bullets and powders to get what you want but you shouldn't have any serious problems. Of the three you mentioned, I like the Ruger of the three, based on my own experiences, especially if you like CRF.
If you aren't concerned with appearances, take a hard look at one of the Savage models. I've had several and haven't had a bad one yet, and have found as a rule they are more accurate out of the box.

Sizzlebird. I have several Winchester M70s, from a Featherweight in 7x57, a .243, a couple of .308s and a .338 Win. mag. All but one are post 64 models in push feed with the newst one in manufacture being the 7x57. Every last one will do from .375" to 1.25" with factory ammo or selected handloads.
One .308, a Youth Ranger model that I won in a raffle, will place 3 220 gr. Sierra RNs into .375" regularly. Load is hot at 2300 FPS, but nonetheless, that's what it does.
I probably won't get one of the new Classics unles I can find one at a gun show cheap enough. Being retired on a pension doesn't allow for buying brand new guns very often. A couple of my rifles have been restocked with Ramline stocks, others still strictly stock. I have cleaned up the triggers for a better pull, but that's really about all I've done except for the 7x57. It didn't shoot worth a damn, and glass bedding, trigger job, nothing seemed to help, including writing Winchester, who snidely said, "Take it to a gunsmith." Finally, I changed scopes and it was a tackdriver. Turned out that a brand new leupold 4X was bad. I sent it back and they fixed it. No big deal
Frankly, I prefer the Winchester M70 over the Remington 700, and I do have both. I like the Winchester's trigger as I find it easier to work on, and Winchester's bolt handle as well. It's longer than the remington's and much easier to manipulate for a fast second shot, should you need one.
As far as accuracy goes, how much do you really need for hunting. Sure, my 7x57 now delivers .5" groups, but I can't shoot well enough from a field position that it would make any difference that the gun only shot 1.5" Just ain't no bench rests out in the boonies. All those really tigkt groups mean are bragging rights at the range. JMHO.
Paul B.

PaulB,

quote:

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As far as accuracy goes, how much do you really need for hunting. Sure, my 7x57 now delivers .5" groups, but I can't shoot well enough from a field position that it would make any difference that the gun only shot 1.5" Just ain't no bench rests out in the boonies. All those really tigkt groups mean are bragging rights at the range.

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I've been saying that for a long time to no avail. I'm glad to see somebody finally put it in print.

[ 06-20-2003, 10:55: Message edited by: savage49494 ]