Jerry,

when the PH says to take the 375 instead of the 9,3x62 I ask who is paying for the buffalo and the daily rates that day. If he says he will, then I take the 375. If he says that the $3000-$5000 deal comes out of my pocket I suggest that I will figure out which rifle I want to use.
People tend to forget that the biggest difference between your PH and the guy who mows your lawn is the cost and location. All I want is for either to be agreeable, and take care of the job I hire them to do.

Rich
DRSS

I have a commercial FN action thats currently in 270. I have been toying with the idea of a 9.3x62 or having the bolt opend up and going with a 375 Ruger. Something about the idea of a 9.3 that interests me. I don't know why, I don't need it for anything. I just know I don't need another 270. Someone posting earlier suggested the 375 but the majority of posters have suggested the 9.3. Only time will tell, DW

quote:

Originally posted by A7Dave:
Putting a barrel on a 1903 Springfield? 35 Whelen. Mauser? 9.3x62!

This is exactly the correct train of thought!

I have wanted a 35 Whelen on a Springfield since I was a kid and never got it done. Awhile back I stumbled across the "right" Mauser action and started collecting pieces and a 9.3 seemed like the right rifle so I put one together that I'm really happy with.
Now that I have a 9.3 I'm not sure I need a 35! I may turn my Springfield action into a 400 Whelen now.
If I had done a 35 Whelen first I wouldn't need a 9.3, honestly.

Snellstrom,

I love the old Springfields as well. The three I have are: 6.5-06, 338-06, and 35 Whelen.

The 35 Whelen was the first one that I had made up when I was 16 years old. I had just had a "difficult" kill on a mule deer with a 30-30 bolt action 340 Savage. Ended up having to kill the damn thing with my knife and decided to get something that put critters down permanently -- thus the 35 Whelen. Ended up hunting with it for years and years and just recently gave it a make over.

The 338-06 was a 35 Whelen when I acquired it 10 years ago. It had beeen built by a gunsmith named Roy Chamberlin in N. Idaho but it had been custom chambered by mistake based on the dimensions of a "fired" 35 Whelen. (Roy told me that before he passed away.) Thus it had a "sloppy" chamber and there was no way I could interchange rounds between the two 35 Whelens. I also decided to refinish the stock and when I took it down to bare wood discovered the tang had caused a hair lind split in the stock and that the metal butplate was holding a piece of the butt stock together. So finally I decided I did not need two 35 Whelens so I ordered an inlet blank stock and restocked it. Installed a Timney trigger, a nice Leupold scope, and rebarrel to 338-06.

Just today I finally fixed a feeding problem I had with the 6.5-06 and I am now ready to finish the stock on it. The 6.5-06 started life as a 1903A4 sniper rifle and someone had already semi-sporterized it. So I figured why not do it correctly. I changed out the "stamped" bottom metal with standard 1903 bottom metal (which ultimately was the cause of the feeding problem). Added a premium Shielen barrel, Timney trigger, 3.5 X 10 Leupold scope, and fancy walnut stock from Great American Gunstocks. I decided to build it in 6.5-06 because I wanted to retire my 256 Newton. Should have the stock finished in about a month and have it up and shootin.

40 Whelen would be interesting. Next rifle I build will probably be a 35-375 Ruger (which would essentiall be a 35 Newton). I just don't like "belted" cartridges so a 358 Norma or 358 STA are off the table and a 35-338 RUM would probably be just a little too much.

I am an obstinate old fart so a 9.3-375 Ruger is also off the table -- just because.

Barstooler

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

People tend to forget that the biggest difference between your PH and the guy who mows your lawn is the cost and location.

Rich, when was the last time the guy you hired to mow your lawn was required to save your butt from a charging rose bush? I agree you take the gun you want but I think a PH is got a hell of a lot more responsibility than the guy who does your mowing!

Right on Dave. My point is, just because a caliber is legal to hunt dangerous game in Africa, dosen't make it the cartridge of choice. For non dangerous game, which is the most critters shot in Africa these days, cause most guys want more for their buck, the 35 Whelen is more than enough, and considered a very goood round. So is the 9.3, but I had to throw that thing about the Professional Hunter out there, just for Rich's PLEASURE!!

Jerry

ps I was thinking about getting a 9.3, but after all the bs around here, I see no need, as the Whelen takes care of everything, other than DG, and for that I'll use my 375.

When I "discovered" the 9.3x62, several years ago, I had already used a 35 Whelen for a few years. Somehow I got the notion that the 9.3x62 was so much better, that I thought for a long time that there's no point in even bothering with a 35 Whelen. But I kept my old 35 Whelen and shot it sometimes, and I have a bunch of brass, factory ammo, and dies.

A few months ago, I had a new CZ 550 medium action, trying to figure out what to do with it, and noticed on PacNor's web site a pre-chambered, pre-threaded for the CZ, contoured CM barrel in 35 Whelen, on sale. How can a guy resist that?

So, soon enough I'll have a brand new 35 Whelen, 14" twist rate, 23" long, on a CZ 550 medium action - trued lapped and tweeked, bolt handle straightened, three-position safety, all bedded in a CZ American style walnut stock.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

BTW, I still like the 9.3x62. I dunno about Better??? hummm I like the 35 Whelen too.

Also, when making these decisions, I had a 9.3x62 CZ take-off barrel, which I gave to my gunsmith, when he complained that I beat him to the snag here on AR. I mean, really, why assemble a 9.3x62 from parts, when CZ makes the whole rifle already assembled? I figured that if I was having a rifle built on a CZ action, I should barrel it chambered in something not available as a factory rifle.

KB

You know Guys: It's funny, whenever the 270 Winchester, or the 35 whelen are discussed, there are a whole bunch of detractors. I don't get it!! These are 2 of the BEST American cartridges ever designed. I am begining to wonder if all the nay sayers are just trollers, or lack the practicle experience to know how good these 2, as an example are! At least I can say, with the exception of the 9.3, I own or have experience with most all of the cartridges that they are compared too! And I am still quite happy with the 270 Winchester and 35 Whelen.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by sierra2:
Use the 9.3x62mm, it is more versatile than the .35 Whelen, and absolutely efective

LOL.........

Jerry I agree with your statement, although I own a bunch of 270's and you couldn't give me a Whelen.

My issue with the Whelen is this, remember this is theorhetical paper discussion, as in the field I don't think you can tell the difference.

Below it you have a 338-06 that has better bullets, better SD, better BC for equal weights. When you get to the heavier bullets where a Whelen would start to show it's advantage, the case doesn't have enough capacity IMO.

So, step in the 9.3x62, more powder capacity, bigger diameter, better ballistics for the equal weights.

I skipped the 9.3x62 went right to a x64 Brenneke.

While we are at it .270, .30-06, 300mag should be discarded in favor of clearly superior european calibers 7x64, 8x57JS and 8x68. Lets not use domestic made scopes they're all junk.

SDhunter: I agree this is a paper discussion, but I will tell you this. My biggest dissapointment with any cartridge, has been with the 338-06. I never could get the velocities everyone here toutes, especially with the 250 grain bullet, and accuracy was ok, but certainly not exceptional. Based on my experience, the Whelen is better, and if anyone needs more bullet than a 250 grainer @2600 to 2700 fps, he should step up to the 375 etc.

Jerry

I do not think the 250gr should be the bullet of choice out of either the Whelen or 338-06.
Unless serious DG was on the menu.

I think it is the BEST choice for a 9.3x62.

Out of my 338-06's I have use 200-210gr bullets for hunting exclusively. If I ever switched, it would be down in weight, not up. Specifically due to the new monometal products.

One exception would be serious DG (ie Africa), but that is a mute point because of legality issues.

If I ever owned another Whelen I would probably stick with 225gr bullets.

One other topic.

As far as the PH issue, I think he would prefer you take the rifle that you shoot the best and place the bullet properly.

I can see the conversation going like this:
PH: why don't you take the 375?
Nimrod: I am afraid of the recoil.
PH: Can you shoot the 9.3?
Nimrod: Very well
PH: take that then

My guess is the PH would be very quick with a backup shot.

But from what I read, the PH would already have wrung the Nimrod out at the camp range and have it all figured out.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Why not have the best of both worlds, build a 35 Whelen Ackley Improved.

225 grain moving out at 2800 fps for plains game and a 310 Woodleigh round nose and FMJ at 2300 fps for the bigger stuff.

John Taylor said that the 350 Rigby was a darling round, and its ballistics at the time didn't even come close to the 35 Whelen. He liked it better than the 9.3x62.

He was amazed what a 225 grain .35 caliber bullet did to an Eland.

His final comment was though, since the 375 magnum exists, why use anything else.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Chris, I am getting 2775fps, out of 24" standard Whelen with a 225 grain Accubond, it really is a stomper. Also I get over 2600fps with a 250 grain Speer or Nosler. The problem with the 250 Partition, if you want to call it a problem, is that at most ranges it zips right thru the critter, american buffalo included. Heavier than 250, I go up to the 375. I am not very interested in shooting 3,4 or 5 different bullets, in any rifle I own, 1 or 2 will do. In fact in the Whelen I prefer the 225 Accubond, or Ballistic Tip, when you can get them.

Jerry

Dear Jerry:

Thank you for your experience.

Actually, I'll be building two 35 Whelen AI.

One, is for Alaska bear and moose with the 250 or 280 grain bullet, and the other will be a pre-WW-II faithful copy of a Mauser sporter with Lyman 48 aperture sight.

With the second I'll shoot the original 225 grain Nosler partition and/or Accubond and a 310 grain Woodleigh complement of soft point and FMJ.

The bullet choice in Africa will depend upon the quarry.

By the way, what did the exit wounds look like with the 250 grain Nosler Partition?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:

Also I get over 2600fps with a 250 grain Speer or Nosler.

Jerry

Really? Jerry, could you pass on your load data to us? What powder are you using. I shoot Reloder 15 in my Whelen and I don't think I could get enough powder in the case to get close to 2600 fps with a 250 Spear in my 22 inch barrel.

The Whelen is one of those cartridges that, because of the modest velocity, tough guy bullets are not really necessary. I shoot plain old 250 grain Speer spitzers and they work great. If I want to make it shoot flatter, I drop down to a 225 TSX and that has become my all around bullet for my Whelen now.

I own/have owned two whelens, one a rem 700 cdl, 1 in 16 twist and a custom mauser 98, 1 in 12 twist,

I also own/have owned two 9.3 x 62's, a cz 550 american and a Sako 75 bored up from 30-06.

Even have a 375 H&H in a Sako AV.

I'm down here in Texas where I don't have to worry about charging rhino's or elephants, no elk unless I want to pay to shoot one in a pen (not hardly), deer are kinda small, but the hogs get pretty big and mean.
Killed deer and hogs with all 5 of the aforementioned rifles.
My take, all three calibers kill stuff DRT if I do my part. Moderate velocities preclude meat damage that you get with high velocity magnums. Manageable recoil and good accuracy.
At 100 yards on game 300 lbs or under, can't see much difference.
Best
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
I am getting 2775fps, out of 24" standard Whelen with a 225 grain...... Also I get over 2600fps with a 250 grain Speer

I get similar velocities out of my .35 Whelen with a 23" Douglas barrel.

Specifically:
225 gr Sierra or Nosler Partitions and 59 gr of RL15 gave me +/-2750 fps

250 gr Speer/Hornady/Barnes and 57 gr of RL15 gave me 2620 fps

Guys, I believe your 2700 +/- with a 225 grain bullet but I am having a little trouble believing the 2600 + with a 250 grain bullet in the Whelen. You guys must have some awfully fast barrels there. The reason that I am doubting this is that I have both a 35 Whelen and two 9.3X62s. I find it hard to get over 2500 with Reloder 15 and a 250 grain Speer in my Whelen and get just over 2500 fps with a 250 grain TSX bullet in my 9.3 with 60 grains of Reloder 15 (the 9.3 has slightly greater case capacity). I am not saying it's impossible. You just might want to try another chronograph.

Dave:

With the 250 grain bullet, I am using IMR4064, you can find the load in the Speer #8 manual, middle load. Actually, this manual goes up another 2, full grains.I have been shooting this load since the 70's. Vels, are usually around 2595 to 2615fps. 24" barrel, with a Pact Chronograph. My buddies Mauser Whelen, is faster than mine with RL15, and a 250 Nosler Partition. BTW, there is absolutly no signs of pressure, no bolt click, and primer pockets stay tight.

Jerry

Jerry,

What do you mean when you talk of "Bolt click" as a pressure sign?

I've not heard of that one before.

Ghubert:

As you open the bolt, and get to the top of the throw, it clicks, or hangs up for a moment! Some might say the bolt is "harder" (more hard than normal) to open. Most of my rifles open easier, after firing a round, than "closing" chambering an unfired round.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
What do you mean when you talk of "Bolt click" as a pressure sign?

I've not heard of that one before.

No one who has any actual Firearm Knowledge has either. More - Oscar Mayer - pure bologna.

Catching these fools make a complete idiot of themselves is easy - you just allow them to post about their great knowledge and experience. Pitiful and Pathetic!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
What do you mean when you talk of "Bolt click" as a pressure sign?

I've not heard of that one before.

No one who has any actual Firearm Knowledge has either. More - Oscar Mayer - pure bologna.


Catching these fools make a complete idiot of themselves is easy - you just allow them to post about their great knowledge and experience. Pitiful and Pathetic!

And the "eggspurt" spouts off
again.
What wouldwe do without the benefit of his greater all knwinf knowledge. Hey HC, STFU!
Paul B.

Thanks Paul, I am done commenting on anything this dumb ass has to say, on any subject or any thread.

Best Regards

Jerry

For HC

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
What wouldwe do without the benefit of his greater all knwinf knowledge. ...

Yes folks, FLUNKING the GED Test for the 14th time does show up. Pitiful and pathetic!

Either of you two care to explain "WHAT" makes the "click"(which is universally recognized as a sound). Should be real simple for two brilliant minds like you all have.

I do love it when the fools trap themselves. Then all they have left is insults for being caught spreading the bologna.

Well it certainly wasn't my intention to set off another pointless round of mud-slinging...

Thank you for your reply Jerry, so that I understand this is something apart and different from what I understand to be sticky extraction?

For sure this is an American problem/dilemma only. Here in Italy some rifle in .35W has arrived only last year, a semiauto for wild boar hunting, but I have some doubt about the ammo diffusion and availability.
I honestly think that here in EU countries there is eventually the dilemma on the choice between 9.3x62 or 9.3x64 ...... But for me it is already solved I have the 9.3x62.

Ghubert:

I am not talking about a fired case, that is hard to extract, that in itself would be a sign of pressure. With "Bolt Click" as I describe it, the bolt will have a sticky feel to it at the top of the throw, but the case may come out normally. It could also be viewed, I suppose, that the camming of the bolt upon opening, is moving the sticky case rearward enough to allow easy extraction.

As to any other comments, made by persons of unsubstanciated character, I would just dismiss them as the inexperienced and nonfactual ramblings of a sad troller!

Jerry

Stefano:
Waidmannsheil to you as well sir!!

Jerry

We'll probaby get some comments on that too!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Guys, I believe your 2700 +/- with a 225 grain bullet but I am having a little trouble believing the 2600 + with a 250 grain bullet in the Whelen. You guys must have some awfully fast barrels there. The reason that I am doubting this is that I have both a 35 Whelen and two 9.3X62s. I find it hard to get over 2500 with Reloder 15 and a 250 grain Speer in my Whelen and get just over 2500 fps with a 250 grain TSX bullet in my 9.3 with 60 grains of Reloder 15 (the 9.3 has slightly greater case capacity). I am not saying it's impossible. You just might want to try another chronograph.

Currently Nosler is showing up to 2800 fps from their 225gr with a couple of loads from a 24" tube. That's an upgrade from the previous manual. Sadly, they've not updated their 250gr loads.

2600 fps from 250s is doable in the 35 Whelen and SOME 22" barrels. Check Layne Simpson in BIG BORE by Wolfe Publications. Also, the late Finn AAgaard attained 2600 fps from Noslers in his custom 22" Mauser. I've had no trouble attaining 2600 fps in my former .35 Whelen from 250 Hornadys and Speers. In my new-current .35 Whelen, I've already attained 2565 fps from a 22" and 56 grains of Rl-15. 57grs should give about 2610 fps.

RL-15 is perhaps the best powder for the 250s but don't rule out H4895 (not IMR4895) as the best all-around powder for anything from 180s to 250s.

In two of Remingtons 1 in 16" twists (the Whelen and a 350 RM)the 300gr Barnes was very accurate AND stable at 2250 from the 350 and 2335 from the Whelen. My current .35 Whelen is a single-shot H&R with a very long throat which allows a COL of 3.465" (at least) with the 250s... Soooo... I'm not cramped by a too short magazine, as in the M673, 350 Rem Mag.

I debated the issue between the 9.3 X 62 and the .35 Whelen. For me, it came down to the versatility of the .35 Whelen in North American hunting. Since it's a handloading proposition anyway, there are more components available at reasonable cost for the Whelen(at least in this area) and I've never heard, or read, of anyone wishing for bullets heavier than 250grs for anything in N.A. Actually, I think a good 225gr is about perfect for bear or moose. For bison, I might choose a 280 or 300 for fun! But I seriously doubt it'd be needed.

If I were hunting Africa again, I wouldn't choose either of those two for DG. It would be my CZ 550 in .458 Win Mag. For plains game, I might choose the Whelen, but likely it would be my .300 Win Mag.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

YES, the .35 Whelen AI, 24" Bbl

458:

I can tell you that a 250 Nosler Partition, out of a 24" Whelen at 2600fps+, travels right thru a 1200 lbs Bison @80yds. Bang, fawap. zing, as the bullet skipped across the Kansas Prairie. Oh yeah, flop as well. I like IMR4064 in my Whelen, and my pals like RL15. I have been shooting 4064 and a 250 Speer, since the 70's, I also like the 225 Ballistic Tip, or Accubond.

Jerry

Jerry I put three 250gr .338 Partitions into a large bull Bison at 70 yards and two were recovered. I would have liked a heavier bullet in case I hadn't had time to hit him so many times.

quote:

Lets not use domestic made scopes they're all junk.

Well, if "domestic" means "made in USA", then as far as 'scopes go you will find most here agree with you.

Quite simply put the best top of the range USA made 'scopes aren't just aren't as good as the best top of the range European made 'scopes.