The necter of the Gods in the world of factory rifles and gundome is a pre 64 Mod. 70 in decent used condition. It far and away (as old Elmer used to say) outclasses ANY new production gun on the market..

I have to agree with both of Ray's comments. Even if it is beat up and you want it to look pretty, you can always have the stock re-done (not re-stocked)for about a C-note. The only thing that I would add is that I generally think it is money well spent to have a factory barrel replaced with a good aftermarket one. My preference: 26" Douglas. But that does begin to pump up the cost.

This pre-64 worship is lame.

I have yet to see one that has anything to recommend it over a good quality factory rifle of today.

Orion 1: Pre 64s were all made by Keebler Elves, not machine tools. As we all know, in 1964 the Cookie Monster, during a cookie crack attack, accidently gobbled up the elves as well(this was the very event that earned him the name "Cookie MONSTER") so everthing built after that date lost its magic appeal. Please don't repost this indiscriminantly as we wouldn't want to be responsible for disappointing all those innocents who believe those elves still live. I actually heard that there were some new elves in training but were stolen out from under Keebler by Dakota but that may just be rumor.

[ 11-07-2003, 19:14: Message edited by: tiggertate ]

Ya know, I look and look and look at every gun show I go to, and I go to most all of them around here, and still can't seem to find that table loaded with the LEFT HAND pre-64's, FN's, Oberndorf Sporters, etc., etc. and so forth.

I bought a Model 700 .30-06 (left hand, but that is irrelevant) in 1976, put a 4X Leupold on it which was later replaced by a Leupold 3X9 and used it for years.

Other Model 700's and now leftie Model 70's have come and gone since then, have done the custom thing and continue to do so. All of the Model 700's shot good to great right out of the box. None of my rifles, box stock or custom, has ever broke or left me SOL. About a year ago on an absolute whim I bought another Model 700 in .30-06 (pre j-dumblock) and put a 2.5X8 Leupold on it. Not quite the rifle that first M700 was, this one could use a little polishing on the lugs and cocking cam.

Looking at my other three .30-06's, the custom Winchesters, the rebarreled and customized .270's and what not, I look at that Model 700 '06 and think, what the hell do I need other than that? It feeds, fires, extracts and ejects like all the rest. Good part - the dang thing shoots like the old ones used to. Five shots well under an inch.

I know, I know, the bolt handle will probably fall off, or I'll shoot myself or someone else when I let off the safety and it fires, or the extractor will break, or something else. so, I might get HD rifles to do their "screw-on" thing to the bolt handle. Replace the trigger with a Jewell. Replace the extractor with a Sako style. Or not.

Bought a Ford F150 in 1990, my very first Ford product. A/C, power windows, power door locks, lots of nice stuff. First thing people told me about was all the stuff that was gonna break and fall off of it. "if yer gonna take it off road then ya absolutely gotta get this after market accessory or yer gonna get stranded 100 miles from nowhere". "ya gotta replace the fritzenspinner with a good heavy duty unit or else it's liable to leave the road at 65 mph". Drove that thing over some country I'd hesitate to take an ATV over, drove several thousand miles back and forth to Boise at 75 mph, and took it back and forth to work five days a week. 12 years and 140,000 miles later, everything still worked - the power windows, the power door locks, the A/C, everything. Well, my stepdaughter did do something to the radio and the light behind the radio panel doesn't work.

Like another fellow here said, I kind of figure this new Model 700 is probably a lot like that old F-150.

I'm not knocking fixing up rifles at all. I love to spend my money on new barrels, new triggers, bedding, all that good stuff. But that's because guns are my hobby. That Ford pickup was just a truck - just a way to get from here to there and back. I'd say 7 or 8 out of ten of the rigs I see at gas stations with big deer and elk in them have a box stock Model 700/77 in the gunrack with the finish half worn off, some Bushnell scope on them (definitely NOT an Elite) in Weaver mounts, and a half empty box of .270/.30-06/7mm Mag/.300 Mag Remington Core-Lokt's on the dashboard.

I know, they don't make'em like they used to. I'll soon be looking at a few thousand dollars invested in a pair of rifles "made the way they use'ta". But I still look at that box stock Model 700 with a 2.5X8 scope on it and the honest part of me knows that I could hunt all over the world and, with a modicum of care, the odds are greatly in my favor that it would never let me down.

Bottom line - No, unfortunately factory rifles aren't hand made instruments of beauty any more. If you can find one then get one of those older hand crafted jewels. They are surely splendid rifles. But if not, go ahead and get a brand new Model 700/77/70/whatever, put a Burris/Leupold/Bushnell/Nikon/whatever on it (do try to get the best scope you can afford) and put a box of ammo through it. If it doesn't fall apart within the first twenty rounds, then go hunting and don't worry about it.

[ 11-07-2003, 20:20: Message edited by: Jim in Idaho ]

Back when rifles were "made like they usedta," there were lots of one-gun hunters. Because that's all they could afford. There are a lot more of us now with a pretty good collection of guns. Most of us have to make some compromises to get there. If you want just one "pearl of great price," more power to you! That's not my style.