I hunt on my own land in central New York. There are some long shots, but like most parts around here everything is shot within 100 yards. Maybe closer. I am a meat hunter. I don't care about the size of antlers and my license will allow me one buck, one either and one doe. If I get lucky I will get another doe permit (about a 50/50 chance where I live).

I'm looking for the least meat damage, put down ability and recoil is a consideration (shoulder problems). I reload.

I have a headache from thinking so much.

What do you suggest? Thanks.

meat damage is far more a result of shot placement than cartridge used.

Any cartridge delivering the requisite 1000 ft-lb usually considered adequate for deer hunting will cause a lot of meat damage if the deer is improperly hit.

Look at the good old 30-30 for the hunting you describe.

What you're talking about needing is a .30-30 or, my favorite, a .35 Remington in a Marlin 336 and low power scope, mounted as low as possible for best shooting at moving deer. As ol' Elmer Keith used to say, "You can eat the bullet hole" because neither produces blood-shot meat. I have come to LOVE that!

For most deer, ONLY a central nervous system hit can be expected to drop them where they stand but a good lung shot, a little high, maybe half way up the body, will put them to sleep inside 3 or 4 seconds. Many will run, flat out, maybe 30-50 yards in that time but they die on their feet. And the .35 leaves a leaky hole that makes finding them pretty easy!

I had my right shoulder rotator cuff torn up pretty badly but my .35 (and .243) are comfortable to shoot. Now. Finally. After more than two years of healing.

Even before the injury, I usually left my stack of high velocity bolt rifles in the safe and took my 336 when deer hunting in the woods.

The old faithful .30-30 does this job very well, however, if you want "new" try the .260 Remington. It is as near to a perfect deer rifle as I can imagine. The 140 grain factory CoreLokts lay whitetails down with ease, minimal meat damage, and less recoil than from a M94 Winchester. Results with 120-125 grain class bullets are spectacular as well, but I have settled on the 140s. This cartridge is the clone of the old Mannlicher 6.5x54mm, as perfect an all purpose game cartridge as ever built.

LLS

There is a huge long list of cartridges which will do that job well. The 30-30 will do it splendidly, but even before it the .44-40 and .38-40 were both plenty adequate for deer up to 100 yards or slightly more. And they probably damage even less eatin' meat and have less recoil. (Big hole with either one, but you can eat just about right up to the hole)

Even as late as 1965 my wife was using a M '73 Winchester carbine in 44-40 for Mule Deer. We had almost no income, and two young cnildren to feed, so it was important the rifle work well, and it did.

If you want "modern", try a .250 Savage. It's only been around 93 years, instead of the 30-30's 113 years, or the .44-40's 135 years, but with 100 grain or heavier bullets it will do the job on deer at short range every bit as well as even this year's catchiest sales fads.

For what you describe, I like a 35 Rem or a 45/70 in a lever action. Also think an SKS would fit well if you want a semi-auto.

Savage 99 in 300 sav a great old deer gun I used mine to kill a couple of dozen deer in the last 10 years.

This may be off the wall thinking...but a big bore like a 375 and up will seldome do much meat damage on a deer. The bullets often do not expand much and simply punch a big hole. They may run a ways before they die, but there will be much less tissue damage than a small bore with more explosive bullets.

The gun I've used that does exactly that is a .357 maximum carbine (180 ssp handloads). The farthest any deer has ever gone is about 20 yards, and minimal meat damage. I've shot them out to roughly 200 yards with it. so there's plenty of range for what you're looking for. If you want a factory-loaded equvalent, the .35 remmy is about a half-step up. JMHO

gd

Just my $.02 but I'd get a 308 Winchester. It has the capability for long shots (300yds) but can be loaded to 30/30 vel.

get a 7-08. it'll do anything you want to do and won't bother your shoulder.

There are several good cartridges that will work well and don't generate much recoil, within the limitations you stipulate, my recommendation is the 6.5x55.

If you want to limit meat damage at a hundred yards then either shoot them in the brain or use a Barnes solid copper bullet.
I am not shitting you my meat waste went to dang near nothing when I started using these bullets.

Good heavy bullet in whatever caliber you desire...

for 100 yds, you don't need an MV over 2200 fps...even 2000 would work fine...

rifles at the turn on the century had MVs about 2200 to 2300 fps, with heavy bullets...

they not only killed large game, but didn't waste a lot of meat, common among higher velocity rounds... or loads..

For a recoil shy hunter, a 260 or 6.5x55 w/ 140grSP will kill very well out to 300yds & close range hits should provide less meat damage than 100gr 243 or sim.

wouldn't a 44 magnum lever action be pretty good choice. heavy slow bullet with a big hole cabable to 100 yards.
Just a thought.

The Swede will deliver 160g at better than 2400 fps using only about 40-45g of powder. There isn't much that comes close to that in terms of SD, speed and recoil. The 308 will do it with a 220g, but it'll be that much moer against your shoulder for no real reason.
Save your shoulder: use the lightest bullet that will do that job. In fact, a 140g .264 bullet would be fine, but that loooong 180 will thump right through without blowing up your dinner.

.35 Rem is my bet for any deer under 100 yards. On the other hand, my .257 with neck shots is just as effective...if you don't mind neck shots.

How about the venerable old .45-70 ???? With the right bullet, they do hardly any meat damage at all and almost always leave a big hole on the offside to allow for ample leakage !!!

If you're certain your shots will be 100 yds or less, I'd go with the venerable 30-30 or 35 Rem in a nice lever gun. If you need to stretch things a little or want a bolt gun, I'd go with the 358 Win, 260, 7-08, etc. There are too many to list. Lou

7x57 with 175-grain bullets, 8x57 with 220-grain bullets or 9,3x62 with 286-grain bullets.

They work fine on impala in the thick bush over here, so I suppose they will do for deer as well.

I'm with the crowd of 30-30 recommenders.
My son has as Marlin Model 336 in 30-30 that is quite accurate. At the range about two months ago, he dropped three shots into slightly over a 1" group at 100 yards with a 4x scope; not too shabby for a 30-30 lever gun.
I just finished up loading 300 rounds of that same ammo for him on Wednesday. The best bullet we've found so far is the 170 grain Nosler made for the 30-30. We use IMR-4895 for powder.

Don

Thank you all for the suggestions and info.

I will weigh the heavy for caliber bullets and recoil factor. After considering all I've read here and other places, I'm going to go for a MV of around 2200 fps. in whatever. I'm leaning toward the 30-30 Marlin XLR or something in 7mm'08 using a 175 gr. bullet.

You are on the right track. The "very occasional" longer shot makes your selection a little more difficult; Still, heavy, hard bullets, large diameter, and modest velocities are correct.

Consider the 358Win with 250's at about 2300 fps. 250 yard capability. Eat up to the hole. JMO, Dutch.

Is the win. Mod.71 in .348 really DEAD? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is the win. Mod.71 in .348 really DEAD? roger

I'm surprised you didn't mention the .25-35

I use a 25-35 for that reason and a little bite of nostalgia tossed in, well make that a big bite of nostalgia. You need to place the shot very carefull with the 25-35 or you will have a tracking job on your hands. It must be in the lungs, heart brain or break the neck...I also use a 6x45 (6mm/223) with 75 gr. Barnes X or now GS Customs bullets as Barnes discontinued the 75 gr. bullet..Again care must be taken as with these light calibers they can make too many tracks if your off.

Actually a .375 or .416 Rem with tough bullets works very well in that it just cuts a big ole hole and does not bloodshot a lot of meat, as old Elmer Keith used to say, "you can eat right up to the hole", and he was right..A 30-06 with a tough 220 gr. bullet works very well also..

the 30-30 always works IMO, at least up to a 200 yards or a little further..

In truth about any caliber will work with the correct bullet. A tough bullet that does not over expand will not ruin a lot of meat if you load it down to a slow but reasonable velocity of 2100 to 2300 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is the win. Mod.71 in .348 really DEAD? roger

I'm surprised you didn't mention the .25-35

Now you know why! I suspected someone else would handle the jobroger

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
For a recoil shy hunter, a 260 or 6.5x55 w/ 140grSP will kill very well out to 300yds & close range hits should provide less meat damage than 100gr 243 or sim.

That's my choice and I'm not recoil shy. It's a great whitetail choice. A Rem M700 Mtn rifle is light, easy to handle in brush or stand, and just feels right.

How about a BLR in .308 Winchester? It'll be fast handling in the brush, magazine fed for spitzers for longer shots and more then enought reach for your expected shots.

To keep meat damage to a minimum, shoot them in the heart/lung area, only a few ribs lost and don't need a premium bullet either.

i am a big fan of the 38-55. you can make cases from 30-30 brass. order some hard cast bullets from bear tooth and load AA2495. you might also want to look at one of those sweet little cz527 bolt action rifles in 762x39. i need to get one of those. i also like the suggestion of 7x57 with 175 bullets. federal still offers that load. stay away from 243 and 25-06.

You don't say what guns you have available to you now? I would also jump on the 30-30 or 35 Rem bandwagon. I would recommend a Marlin, so you can put a scope on it easily, at least MY old eyes would benefit from it...

A 170 gr anything-bullet in the 30-30, or a 200-225 gr anything-bullet in the Rem, aught to do nicely.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is the win. Mod.71 in .348 really DEAD? roger

I'm surprised you didn't mention the .25-35

Yes, unfortunately I believe it is. Not too many 71s around anymore. Too bad, it's a great round, but the 358 Win works as well and is easier to fit into a bolt gun.

quote:

Originally posted by JWK:
I hunt on my own land in central New York. There are some long shots, but like most parts around here everything is shot within 100 yards. Maybe closer. I am a meat hunter. I don't care about the size of antlers and my license will allow me one buck, one either and one doe. If I get lucky I will get another doe permit (about a 50/50 chance where I live).

I'm looking for the least meat damage, put down ability and recoil is a consideration (shoulder problems). I reload.

I have a headache from thinking so much.

What do you suggest? Thanks.

Any one of the X-mm TCUs.

A .35 Remington should be about perfect. Not too much recoil and there's a little better chance of the deer going down on your property than with a 30-30.

.375 X 41mm, 300 gr. cast, gas checked bullet at 2000 fps. roger

JWK,

I've loaded the Speer 170 gr. flat-nose in my dad's 30-30 to about 2200 fps.

The bullet is actually quite good as far as bc. IIRC it's .304

I would say this about it, though--it doesn't seem to open up very quickly. I've shot two whitetail does with it, one at about 145 yards, and the other somewhere in the neighborhood of 150-160.

Both bullets were pass-throughs that left small exit holes.

One was through the back of the lungs/liver and may have tweaked the bottom of the spine. That deer dropped in its tracks.

The other was gut-shot. That one poked through like a pencil (not surprising, really). I let the deer bed down for a couple of hours and got it without too much trouble (though it wasn't pretty!).

Anyway, I think you're on the right track. If I put the load together again, personally I'll try the 150 gr. Speer--with the hopes that it will open quicker.

friar

My Dad hunted Cape Buffalo with a 35 Remington. He loved that gun. (He once shot two buffalo with one shot. The bullet passed through the chest and broke the shoulder of the animal behind it. He had to finish off the second buffalo).

But recoil? 200grs of bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2100 fps from a light rifle is going to be felt. I used to shoot a 357mag Rossi from a bench with 148gr cast bullets (lower velocity) and after a few shots, my shoulder would hurt. There is a way around it 'though - an overbarrel suppressor. On the other hand, a heavy bulleted 7x57 or the like gives a less sharp recoil - more of a push - so more recoil can be tolerated. Just a thought.

Another thought, a larger capacity lower pressure cartridge will have a 'softer' recoil than a higher intensiy cartridge of the same power. (To do with the rate of bullet acceleration in the bore). This means a 308 loaded down to 30-30 velocity will have less 'felt recoil' that the 30-30. (But will have more muzzle lift). This matters for sore shoulders.

Oh, ... the heavy for caliber bullets like the 174gr 7mm at lower velocity, retains velocity better for longer shots but drops more.

358 win

with a 250 grn woodliegh!

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:
JWK,

I've loaded the Speer 170 gr. flat-nose in my dad's 30-30 to about 2200 fps.

The bullet is actually quite good as far as bc. IIRC it's .304

I would say this about it, though--it doesn't seem to open up very quickly. I've shot two whitetail does with it, one at about 145 yards, and the other somewhere in the neighborhood of 150-160.

Both bullets were pass-throughs that left small exit holes.

One was through the back of the lungs/liver and may have tweaked the bottom of the spine. That deer dropped in its tracks.

The other was gut-shot. That one poked through like a pencil (not surprising, really). I let the deer bed down for a couple of hours and got it without too much trouble (though it wasn't pretty!).

Anyway, I think you're on the right track. If I put the load together again, personally I'll try the 150 gr. Speer--with the hopes that it will open quicker.

friar

Friar, I have seen the 170 flat points do a marvelous job on whitetails.....even small ones. DRT isn't at all uncommon.

Maybe you're stretching the envelope shooting at 150 yards with that bullet.....and maybe the Speer bullet should be swapped for the old core-lokt or power point.....but IMO the 170 is the right bullet for the 30-30