The 416 Rem, a 350 gr at 2600 to 2700 fps, a 300 gr. even faster, a 400 gr. for the big stuff..

Makes a one gun safari workable..not much meat waste on light PG or whitetails..

Has issues such as recoil, rifle wt. etc, so it takes a certain type of individual to use it..

I used that combo in Africa a few times and so did Saeed and others.It works with both softs and solids.

Just food for conversation, as Ive never seen this addressed on AR that I recall.

Ray,

I agree. If you want a step up in power over the 375 it would be hard to beat the 416 Remington for anything that walks on the planet. Great bullet selection for long shots or in your face situations.

Mark

Depending on one's shooting distances, I think the 416's make pretty decent all-arounder in North America. I frequently use my 20" 416 Ruger with the 350 grain TSX for moose. This year, I started loading the 350 TTSX, though no moose cooperated. This particular rifle, I am getting a bit over 2500 fps. 2500 will cover my under 250 yard distances nicely. My usual shoot opportunities are under 200 yards. So it works very well for me. Though there are areas that I prefer faster cartridges.

If I'm not mistaken, this is what Phil Shoemaker's daughter Tia relies on with her Echols - a 416 Rem with 350 gr bullets. seems to work...

Don't see why it wouldn't work.

But the rifles are normally a bit on the heaver side.

I wanted a 416 Remington for years.
Came across reloading dies for a deal, then a big box of brass.
When I bought a 416 Taylor a friend with local shop gave me a smoking price on some Barnes bullets from a consignment.
Finally bought from Cabela’s a Sako in 416 Remington for less than $800! Ask about the price and salesman said no one wants a 416 REM and they wanted to get rid of it.
Mission accomplished.

M

As versatile as it is, it still doesn't qualify as a medium bore rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
As versatile as it is, it still doesn't qualify as a medium bore rifle.

True. So, where does that leave us?

Back to the 375/9.3…?

But to be fair, Ray didn’t ask for the “most overlooked medium bore”, he considered the most overlooked “all around caliber”.

In that case the 416 Rem. is a heck of a good choice. But I would opt for the 404 Jeffery.

Who sez it doesn't qualify as an all around, it works as well or better than anything else, its one drawback might be recoil, but the old timers shot the 50 Sharps, gues they were tougher..I see no other downfall on the caliber for an all around big game round and will take that to task!

Yup, that would do the trick nicely on anything. But I like to enjoy my shooting too, not just my hunting. Pain and flinches and tired arms take something away from my shooting and hunting enjoyment!
I'm a believer in using the "right" tool for the job. If you can handle .416 recoil, yay! But that's not me. I'd prefer to pack another rifle through airports and customs. And I like rifles, So more rifles is better for me. :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Longwalker:

I'm a believer in using the "right" tool for the job. If you can handle .416 recoil, yay! But that's not me. I'd prefer to pack another rifle through airports and customs. And I like rifles, So more rifles is better for me. :-)

That is my thought also.

But there are places where owning a 2nd or more rifles is a real PITA.

It seems like Canada might be heading that way real soon.

The reason I have developed a 375/404 was the fact that it is a requirement for dangerous game.

If a smaller caliber was acceptable, I would have picked that one.

I am talking about my own experience, and with that, I hav absolutely no hesitation in using a 30/404 for everything, including buffalo and keep.

The right bullet, in the right place, is all one needs.

In my opinion the most overlooked all around chambering is the 358 STA. I load the 225, 250, and 270 grain Northfork bullets at 3000 plus and consider that bullet the best available. With a range of bullets from 185 grain up to 310 grains the possibilities are many. I realize it is not legal in most of Africa but I would use my .416 Rem or Rigby there as I did in the past. My 02 cents for what it is worth.

To me, there really is no need for anything between the 30 and 375.

If the 30 is too small, get a 375.

And there is absolutely no need for anything bigger for hunting.

Ben using one fir so many years, shooting hundreds of dangerous game, including elephants, buffalo, lion and others.

You might laugh at this coming from some who has big calibers up to the 700.

I enjoy shooting them.

But fir hunting, a 375 is my preferred gun.

Along the same lines as Saeed is saying is my non interest in any 300 magnum. If the 30-06 is deemed too small go to a larger caliber not a faster .30.

If there is no need for bigger than .375, Saeed, then why do Allan and Roy always carry bigger on their own?



As to the OP, I’d say the .416 Rigby would be the better “all arounder” than the.416 Rem mag, as it is capable of being loaded more variably than the Remington version. There are folks who use high BC heavy bullets in it for long range target shooting (yes, that does require a nonstandard twist barrel)…. Thus an overlooked all arounder.

To me the best all around cartridge is the .375 H&H. Legal for most everything and works, but everyone knows that. Frankly, I’m not sure why Saeed insists on his .375/404 other than being able to say it’s his own creation.

Number 2 is the .30-06. I’ve killed crows to Eland with one.

A lightweight rifle in 375 Weatherby. A 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps or a 350g Woodleigh HD SP at 2550. Mine weighs 7 1/2 lbs with a Leupold 2-7x Firedot scope. Here come the haters lol ...

I can't believe that no one has yet mentioned the 6.5 Creedmoor.



This is the Medium Bore Rifles forum, after all.

But seriously, I am a big fan of the .416, both the Rigby and the Remington.

For the best overall bullet to load, I rate the 370 grain North Fork bonded soft point as among the best, and one of my favorites.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
As versatile as it is, it still doesn't qualify as a medium bore rifle.

True. So, where does that leave us?

Back to the 375/9.3…?

But to be fair, Ray didn’t ask for the “most overlooked medium bore”, he considered the most overlooked “all around caliber”.

Yup, in the medium bore rifles forum.

quote:

The right bullet, in the right place, is all one needs.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
If there is no need for bigger than .375, Saeed, then why do Allan and Roy always carry bigger on their own?



As to the OP, I’d say the .416 Rigby would be the better “all arounder” than the.416 Rem mag, as it is capable of being loaded more variably than the Remington version. There are folks who use high BC heavy bullets in it for long range target shooting (yes, that does require a nonstandard twist barrel)…. Thus an overlooked all arounder.

To me the best all around cartridge is the .375 H&H. Legal for most everything and works, but everyone knows that. Frankly, I’m not sure why Saeed insists on his .375/404 other than being able to say it’s his own creation.

Number 2 is the .30-06. I’ve killed crows to Eland with one.

Roy has been converted.

Alan is using a 450 Ackley because he has to deal with nincompoops as clients.

Y'all have shoulders of steel, I'm tellin' ya. I max out these days at .375 H&H.
I just bought Tom's .450-400 becase I love the cartridge and its history and I respect the concept behind the Ruger No. 1.
But guess who just received a nice 41-350 gas checked mold from Accurate yesterday? That bullet at 1900 or so will make for some very pleasant shooting.

quote:

But guess who just received a nice 41-350 gas checked mold from Accurate yesterday? That bullet at 1900 or so will make for some very pleasant shooting.

For sure a good choice.

Are you going to powder coat them.

P dog, interesting that you asked. After reading about issues with Harbor Freight black, I ordered in some yellow-green (University of Oregon colors) from a guy who goes by the name of Smokes over on Castboolits. I look forward to trying it on the Accurate bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Y'all have shoulders of steel, I'm tellin' ya. I max out these days at .375 H&H.
I just bought Tom's .450-400 becase I love the cartridge and its history and I respect the concept behind the Ruger No. 1.
But guess who just received a nice 41-350 gas checked mold from Accurate yesterday? That bullet at 1900 or so will make for some very pleasant shooting.

Me too. I sold everything bigger than .375 HH.
I tried .416 Rem and Rigby, .470 NE, .450 3 1/4 NE double, .458 Win and Lott - I struggle with these. I shoot a .375 HH fairly well, feels like my 12ga skeet gun.

Shoot what you can handle and shoot it well.

I love my 500 Jeffery, but I only put a few rounds down range every now and then. I fire 3 shots to make sure it's still sighted in then shoot it 10 rounds off hand. I'll then take out my 270 Weatherby and try and hit the hanging scuba tank at the Fort Carson range at 845 yards which is about twice as far as I would shoot at elk or mule deer.

For my only Cape Buffalo hunt so far, I downloaded the 416 RM for myself and a friend who like me has neck problems and recoil tolerance issues.

We were using the lowest Varget charge I could find in any manual. It shot the 400gr A-frame and Barns solids at 2200fps. It killed just fine and was like shooting a standard 2.3/4" 12ga compared to 3" magnum heavy load in the recoil department. Both of our Blaser rifles shot both bullets into under an inch at 100 yards.

My hunting buddy killed his 'buff at 180 yards, and shot another one off the back of the Argo at two feet.

I load my 416 Rigby with 350gr TSX bullets at 2,700fps. It's the hammer of Thor!!

Interesting conversation and I started it and openned up another can of worms!!
Most of my hunting was done with the 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys, comparing them against each other is apples to apples..

No more Africa for me, and thats a sad situation, thats hard to take, but I was blessed to ever been there in the first place. my point being the largest rifles I have today are a 348 win and my beat up Huskvarna 9.3x62, I sold the rest, but hey this old body no longer craves recoil..

some points of interests, the 416 weighs a lb or two more than most 30-06s?? that shouldn't wear one out recoil can be modified at the loading bench, as can trajectory, the 416 REm is a smaller action than the Rigby more compact and lighter any way you cut it..I could write a book on this subject but a post will have to do today!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
To me, there really is no need for anything between the 30 and 375.

If the 30 is too small, get a 375.

And there is absolutely no need for anything bigger for hunting.
Ben using one fir so many years, shooting hundreds of dangerous game, including elephants, buffalo, lion and others.

You might laugh at this coming from some who has big calibers up to the 700.

I enjoy shooting them.

But fir hunting, a 375 is my preferred gun.

Wisdom gained from experience! I agree with Saeed.

I will confirm that Saeeds buffalo count is more than any "honest PH" I know of..so Id respect his wisdom on buffalo over anyone I know. I will also say that Africa has many fine PH, and many not so fine, mostly farmers with a PH license, the best will tell you shoot what you must just shoot it good..

I took my 416 Rem to Africa with 370 gr North Forks at 2500 and change.
Everything I shot was DRT.

Just returned from shooting my Browning Safari 458 WM today off a bench with 500's at 2180 FPS.
That is a light rifle and will get your attention....
The 416 is not that bad relatively speaking.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
As versatile as it is, it still doesn't qualify as a medium bore rifle.

True. So, where does that leave us?

Back to the 375/9.3…?

But to be fair, Ray didn’t ask for the “most overlooked medium bore”, he considered the most overlooked “all around caliber”.

In that case the 416 Rem. is a heck of a good choice. But I would opt for the 404 Jeffery.

I thought anything below .500 was a medium bore?

Pretty hard to argue for anything besides a fast 375 as the "A-1 Universal General Purpose World-Wide Big Game Caliber"

Legal for Africal DG, fast and flat shooting enough for longer range, can be built light "enough" and yet have a recoil level that can be tolerated by mere mortals!

Not perfect for much of anything, but can be used for most everything!

Ive always been comfortable with a 375 or 9.3x62, but usually chose the 404 or 416 Rem..just because I like to use different calibers on big stuff..338 win., 45-90, 30-06, 7x57, 404, 416 Rem, 300 Wby , 9,3x62 and 9.3x64. and a couple of others like the 450-400-3" and 3.5". 470 and 450-3-1/4. It added to the hunt, and a satisfied mind.

Obviously, the 6.5mm Creedmoor

Lately, I’ve been doing a little shooting with my Ruger number one in 416 Rigby. It’s growing on me. I think it’s pretty accurate. Not loading it quite to its full potential, but still plenty of womp. Of all the 416s though, for what I want out of one, the tailor round will be my choice. The 416 Ruger cartridge would be second, and the case capacities are almost the same.

.358 norma mag. THE most overlooked for coverage on anything in North America. I would step it up for global hunting to either a .375 or maybe the 416 rigby.

My take on the 416 Rigby is its a big awkard action lending itself to being overly heavy, and the ballistics are the same as 416 and 404 Jefferys,all things equal.
The 404 is basically a 416 without a belt, powder wise and Ive loaded my 404 and hunted it at 2650 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet in a much more compact rifle.I realize that some have loaded the Rigby to 2900 with a 400 gr. bullet, I tried that and got a stuck case and head seperation on the 3rd shot, dropped back to 2700 fps and all went well but max, and voided the fabled low pressure claim.

the Rigbys claim to fame was high velocity at low pressure in the African heat and that can be a plus of sorts.

Bottom line is I like the 416 rem because its a lighter weight more compact rifle, ammo is easy to find in most locals, brass and componets are cheaper..

Ballistically all these calibers pretty much equal up to a point, and all are capable..Id chose the rifle based on how it shot, how it feels, caliber would be secondary.

But I speak for myself only..

Oh did I mention the 416 Ruger voids all the 40 caliber bolt gun IMO., as does the 375 Ruger voids the 375 rifles..

I'm in the middle of building me a 416 Rem.
Why, you ask....because I can and I didn't have one until now.

It's going to be a thing of beauty with the Turkish walnut stock once done (shootable art). I'm in the middle of inletting as we speak.

Do I need one? Oh hell no but I don't NEED 7/8 of the guns I have now!

I'm an unapologetic gun whore.

Zeke