The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Advice Needed: suggest a FACTORY .308 win load that covers mice to moose; 0 - 400ydsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Advice Needed: suggest a FACTORY .308 win load that covers mice to moose; 0 - 400yds | Login/Join |
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That's not asking too much, is it? So, here's the gig. I recently bought a BEAUTIFUL Kimber 84M Seclect grade from Dwight Van Brunt for my daughter, chambered in .308 Win. She'll be 14 this spring, and it's time we get serious about a life-time rifle for her. I'll be setting up the rifle for a 200yd zero, with a reticle whose hash marks correspond to 300, 400 & 500 yards (500 being much too far to shoot on game in my opinion). As an aside, if you'd like to make a suggestion about what scope/reticle, I'm all ears. My main question, though, is what .308 Win FACTORY load would you shoot, mice to moose, 0 - 400yds? Of course, it will have to be something the rifle digests nicely; my hope is MOA or less. Again, this is to be a life-time rifle, set-up to hunt anything in N.A. but the big bears. What would you choose? Thanks for the advice, friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | ||
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Two actually: Federal's Premium; For everything up to 400 pounds; 165gr Sierra Gamekings, over 400 pounds, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (Tipped) | |||
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I'm sure you will get to hear plenty of suggestions, some will be more helpful than others and lots are based on opinions that may have been shaped by different hunting than what you and your daughter will be doing. Here is a suggestion: If one bullet were picked I would try a 150 grain Mono metal bullet and you may have to do some trial and error to find which ammo the rifle shoots best a 150 TTSX or a GMX would take everything you are talking about and offer a fairly flat trajectory. (Honestly you could easily drop to a 130 grain mono metal and do what you want if your rifle shoots them well) For shooting to 400 yards I'm not a fan of a cluttered reticle with multiple hashmarks, in low light they will only cause confusion. I would pick a Leupold 3.5-10 or 3-9 with a 40 mm objective and a regular Duplex crosshair. Sight the rifle in 2.5" high at 100 which should give you a zero around 230 yards then tape on your stock a drop table with 50 yard intervals out to 400 or 450 yards and also have 10 and 20 MPH wind on your drop table. Simple, repeatable and consistent. | |||
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I also would use the 150 mono. As for a scope, pick a good Leupold with a regular duplex. Send it off to Leupold with your load data, info and have a CDS custom dial installed. Pick a good rangefinder ( no need for super expensive, one out to 500yds will do. Follow the zero instructions, then go have a ball! | |||
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I would add that care should be taken as to what size scope you put on that little Kimber. No need for a lot of power for Big Game. I see so many little rifles, out here, that are just overwhelmed with big honking scopes. And, on average, they kill their game at less than 200yds. Now, I've seen them "shoot" at game out to incredible distances! Foolishness gone to seed... | |||
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I would say Barnes Vor-TX 150's and a Leupold 2.5-8 would be an excellent set up. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Like others above, I recommend a 150-grain monometal bullet. My son uses a .308 Win for all his big game hunting, including elk and much tougher oryx here in NM. We have successfully used Barnes Vor-TX with 150-grain TTSX bullets. They perform well. I also shoot this bullet, handloaded, in my .300 WSM (a Kimber incidentally) and it has performed well on everything from coyotes to oryx. I say give the Barnes ammo a try. It's plenty accurate in the kid's rifle and that bullet performs well on all manner of game. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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Thanks everyone - I appreciate your thoughtful responses! Simplicity (and therefore quickness) is the name of the game for the scope. For my own shooting, Snell, I've adopted your method of 2.5" high at 100 (giving me a top of the rainbow of about 3" around 150 yds). This works very well for a 6" MPBR around 300 yds. Another option - again with simplicity in mind - is maybe a Leupold (or other?) with the simple dots in the lower vertical wire. I have this reticle in my 2-7x and have found it quick & easy. On another rifle, I have their 2.5x8 with a standard duplex w/firedot, and that is a quick scope, too. Whatever we put on the rifle, it will go into low Talley lightweights & be a minimalist approach. Thanks again - and blessings to each of you! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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I would go with a 168 grain barnes TTSX. It will likely have a trajectory that is very close to the reticle hash marks for 300 & 400 https://www.sportsmansguide.co...-20-rounds?a=1582742 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Barnes Vor-TX 150 gr TTSX factory ammo worked great for me in a Browning X-bolt .308 with a 2.5-8x Leupold for a trip to Namibia in 2016. I took everything from dik-dik to kudu with complete satisfaction, one shot each. No 400 yard shots for me, though. Ever. | |||
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X2 Hard to beat that!  | |||
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Another vote for a 150 mono. Vor tx, has 150 TTSX’s in a factory load! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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For an experienced hunter a scope with hash marks and a reticle that looks like a christmas tree, might give some sense. But for a young hunter, a novice, I would definitely go for a simpler solution. And why stretch the shooting range up to 4 - 500 yards in the first place? I would keep it simple, sight in an inch and a half high at 100 yds, forget about hash marks, and as long as the game are within 200 yds, one just hold right on the shoulder. That`s a good way to start a young hunter off. Later when experience and confidence are building up, one can consider a scope better fit for longer distance. But for a starter, I would focus on shooting and hunting skills up to 200 yds. Nothing worse that urging an unexperienced hunter to stretch the range and miss or wound a game. That`s not building confidence. I have been through the same prosess with two of my kids, so I`m talking of experience. Just my two cents  Arild Iversen. | |||
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Hello AR friends! Thank you kindly for all your gracious responses - they are indeed thought provoking & informative  Just to clarify (if I perhaps was misunderstood - but perhaps not), I'll be starting my daughter out at very sensible ranges - "woods ranges" as it's sometimes said, of 0 - 150 yards. In fact, I anticipate nearly all of her early years hunting will be well inside of 150 yards, as we hunt NW Wisconsin's woods. Should she display an aptitude for shooting & a love for hunting, however, my hope/goal is to give her a rifle capable of cleanly/ethically taking game at up to 400yds. That's a long shot, for sure, and will depend on how much she "cottons" to the sport. Again, thanks everyone - and good shooting & hunting! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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165 gr NP. Done. | |||
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I shot a lot of game with 165gr Partitions when a .308 was my primary rifle but I could see how 150gr TSX might be a better choice. All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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for a very petite young lady here in Texas we have crafted a 145gr CEB Raptor with hand loads running only 1600 to 1800 for use in in a youth Model 7.308 Win the young one has taken several hogs and a few deer cleanly with one shot kills at ranges under 100 yds as she develops in size, and skill, the power loadings will be increased as will here shooting range also,a suppressor is in her near future so sooner than later she will be shooting full power loads. the very fortunate thing today is the variety and excellent quality of most current projectiles so many very, very good ones to choose from the CEB's are pricey, however in my handguns and rifles the performance at all velocities has been exemplary in my mid 60's now , i have used just about every premium projectile made prior to the CEB's some of my favorites have been Barnes, NorthFork, Trophy Bonded A's, Swift, Nosler Part, etc etc as i said the current choices are generally all very good find one that groups well and most of the equation is solved | |||
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Well, except for a baboon, maybe.
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I'm more in bluefish's camp. but if I had to pick a factory round for the 308 it would be a 165gr somebody's sumthin or other from the 20$ a box rack. those always seemed to do the job just fine. [well when they were more like 7.50$ they did] maybe in 2010 and later everything smarted up and decided it didn't have to die from a hole in it's lungs placed there by some mundane cup and core bullet. | |||
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Oh sure, point that out! But that was with L's 9,3x64 which I had never shot before, with a scope that was focused for 18 yr old eyes, and vague point of aim advice, and probably the wrong phase of the moon giving bad juju, and and ...  | |||
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Hey, wait just a dog-gone minute. I thought that was with an 8x57 drilling! Or did you shoot it at 400 yds with the 16 gauge barrel?
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I would get her a 3X Leupold or perhaps a 4X compact, keept the gun light and compact for a few years, with that wide field of view she will be more comfortable..Any 150 will work on deer, and use 165 or 180 ge Nosler partitions for elk..300 yards is more realistic and 200 and under is better, if she ever wounds an animal her feelings about hunting will be over..Keep it simple and clean, both you and her need to know her abilities very well indeed. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I second the Barnes Vortex 168 gr. TTSX. Accurate and hard hitting. This is my go to wild pig load. | |||
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I’m a big fan of the 150 TTSX. Shorter than the 165/168, giving more powder capacity and higher velocities and flattter trajectories...easier hits at extended ranges. Given the high retained bullet weight after impact, in the .308 Win., it would seem to be the best “all around” bullet in the .308 Win.....from “mice to moose”! JMO memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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I would shoot it with a couple brands first to see if it will shoot well at all first. Mine never shot better than 2" or more with anything. Definitely not a 400yard gun. If it shoots, then Federal Premiums with a Nosler Partition. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Now that I read “and” comprehended (my mistake) your needs....Remington used to have reduced loads (marketed as Managed Recoil). I’m pretty sure it was available in .308 Win. Good Luck. memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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something i forgot to mention above- for the non-handloader- the number of factory reduced recoil loads by several makers enables you to start a young one out with 30-30 power .308 loads (or in some cases less) Remington calls theirs -Managed Recoil Hornady-- Lite Federal -Low Recoil HSM- Low Recoil as the youngster adapts to these rounds, then escalate to heavier factory loads | |||
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I’ve made a lot of 1 shot, 200yd bang flops on Muleys using Winchester 168gr ballistic silver tips I my .308. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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150 grn 308s are not necessarily going to have a flatter trajectory than 165/68s. The 165/68s have better BCs. A flat base 150 will have a worse trajectory than boat tail and polymer tipped 168. Even when you run the like for like calculations, the trajectories are often within 1.5 of an inches between 300 and 500 yards. Not many people are going to be able to discern a difference of 1.5 inches under field conditions at any distance where trajectory matters. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well, the OP included game bigger than deer, so I suggested the 150 mono. I have only killed two animals with a .308. The first was a small Texas whitetail at 15yds with a factory 150 corlokts . the second was my first Axis buck taken at 230 steps with a handloaded 165 NBT. I also suggested the 150 so as to reduce recoil. Very light rifles in .308 are a handful! So, if only using factory loads, right now, yes, any of the Reduced Recoil loads at 200 and under. I also suggest you use Medium height rings and no more than a 150yd zero. Even 2 1/2 high at 100 can cause a miss if she can't hold still or is excited. Hard for a kid to remember to hold 3 inches low at 150. BTW, my old hunting partner out here has used the same Browning BLR in .308 since High School ( 1970) he has tried a few loads, is a handloader, but settled ( decades ago)on the 150gr corlokts for antelope, mule deer, elk and one big cow bison! ha. However, he likes to see in the darl timber, so he put a big honking 50mm Burris on it, ha. Hey, I can only do so much... | |||
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165 BTSP, 2700 FPS. But you will have the recoil factor to deal with. Load 200 rds of 110 gr. rn have her rock shoot all of them. When she transitions up, go to 125 accubonds. They will work well for deer. If she gets the opportunity for a elk or moose she won't even notice the recoil of the heavier bullet. The 308 is my favorite round. I have had it in one form of rifle or another my whole hunting life ! | |||
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Good advice! My father almost missed a big whitetail at 25 yards for this very reason...but took off the lower half of the heart.
I'll do something like that, as least on the reduced recoil factory load...those are plenty good for whitetail to 200 yards. Blessings, friends! friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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The suggestion from f224 that you choose two Federal 165 gr. factory loads matches my thinking. I have used one or another .308 as my primary rifle for all our local species for a long time, more than 40 years. I can't think of anything the 150 gr. load does better than a sleek 165, and good strong 165gr. bullets have been effective for me on both elk and moose. I used to use 150's for deer and pronghorn and coyotes, 180's for elk and moose and bears, now I just use 165's and vary bullet construction to match the size of the game. | |||
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I don't see the .308 as a 400, 500 yard gun for deer or elk..although Im sure its been done, and I have made some long range shots with the caliber, but its risky at best. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Sorry I just don't see your argument, the .308 has plenty of everything to get the job done at 400-500 yards on deer and elk. It really is about the shooter at that point and if they are up to the task. It also has a lot to do with proper bullet selections of course a 150-180 grain RN or FP won't be up to the task, but a 150-180 grain BTSP shouldn't have any issues at those ranges if the shooter puts the bullet in the kill zone. | |||
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Dream on dreamer, been using the caliber too long and at those ranges its less about the shooter, its about broken legs, and gut shots, and dopeing wind.. The problem is with all respect and as you may or may not learn in time, is a great shot will break legs and get gut shots at those ranges when a poor shot will simply miss altogether..trust me on this one.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray.....any damn cartridge you want to pull out of your ass is a leg breaker and a gut runner in the wrong hands. I tire of this same ol shit from you. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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A great shot will make that shot if he or she is practiced at those distances. If you are breakin legs and punchin guts you aren't that "great" of a shot. | |||
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So you're telling me there is a caliber that covers mice to moose? If my wife finds out there will be hell to pay. Don't you know there are anti's that monitor these sites just looking for information like this. Your daughter must learn early that there are calibers that are mandatory for each species, and I would argue for duplication of calibers in different rifle configurations for each species form mice to white-tailed deer, to mule deer, to couse deer, to pronghorn, to black bears (don't even get me started on color phases), to elk ( cows vs. the elusive bull and don't get this place going about big bulls) ... and I'm only up to calibers up to the 243 win. So many considerations between mice and men and moose, now there's a book title. Friar, thanks for allowing all these well intentioned folks the microphone for a moment, and some even got to give Ray some shit. Nearly all the boxes have been ticked. If you have only bought your daughter one rifle at this point her hunting/shooting career, you should turn in your AR membership card immediately. I'm blessed to have a 12 and 14 year olds that are lefties so I can start all over from, the other side. Please let us know which factory ammo you have chosen, many people are on the edge of their keyboard. | |||
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Another vote for Barnes Vortex 168 gr. TTSX. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Advice Needed: suggest a FACTORY .308 win load that covers mice to moose; 0 - 400yds
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