I have spent a lot of time learning how to tune up rifles and develope reloads. When I miss I know it me not my rifle. Range estimation,and dopeing the wind are as important as having an accurate rifle.

I always pushed my rifles to sub minute of angle going back 20 years. My 270 sporter weight m70 shoots 5 under a dime all day long and I have a 25-06 that is sub 1/2 minute of angle. So my question is why are others settling for less?

To be honest, allot of time goes into cartridge development in order to achieve and maintain that level of performance. Of those two loads the 25-06 is the least weather sensitive. The .270 requires a summer and winter load adjustment to keep that accuracy otherwise it opens up.

Personally I think the accuracy craze is great. It means tons of perfectly good hunting rifles are being sold cheap

Reading the posts so far I think everybody tries to get the best accuracy out of their given guns. We're all sportsman and that's just the nature of the beast. The difference in opinion I think is in how important that accuracy is in the field (hunting). I'm sure that roughly correlates to how far we shoot, where we hunt, etc.

I grew up out west where the shots were typically long and so accuracy and velocity were more important. I hunt in the woods now and have no use for my long heavy guns anymore other than playing at the range. I take relatively inaccurate short light carbines for tromping through the brush now. Guns are tools. What's right for one job isn't necessarily right for another.

Atkinson made a good point earlier in the thread about shooting MOA all day long. What does everyone consider to be sub-MOA? Do 100% of the groups have to be sub-MOA in order to be considered a sub-MOA rifle? 75% of groups? 50% of groups? Any group? Depending on we define sub-MOA that would make a huge difference in what rifles qualify as sub-MOA.

Sometimes you can't have both, i.e., accuracy and max velocity at the same time. Most rifles I reload for have their best accuracy at somewhere below, sometimes substantially below, maximum velocity.

However, I must admit that 1.5 or 2 MOA is adequate for most hunting situations, but it isn't personally satisfying to me. That is to say, I want something that is really better than what I need. I suppose that doesn't make since, but that's the way I am.

I have a New England Handi-Rifle in 30-06 that I just can't get to shoot better than 1.5 MOA and yet I have killed several deer with it, one being the longest shot I've ever made on a whitetail (220 yds). Yet, I'm not satisfied with it and keep working on finding the magic combination that will produce a sub 1" group at 100 yds.

As seafire stated, most rifles can be made to shoot MOA with a little time and patience. I have two Wby Vanguards that are guaranteed to shoot 1.5" groups but I have developed loads that produce better than 1" groups at 100 yds for both.

I suppose all this rambling means that accuracy is in the eyes of the beholder.

If one is to believe cyberspace, then ALL rifles are sub-MOA. In fact, many posters claim groups --all day long-- that would be competitive in a bench rest match.
IMO, the difference between say a 1MOA rifle and a sub-MOA rifle is often not the rifle but the shooter. While the bench rest boys have got some excellent rifles, the winning edge goes to practice, practice, practice. Self discipline. dedication.
Sitting around the general store, I've invited some of the owners of these bug hole rifles to show me --with a little money involved. It was amazing how many needed to get home so's they could wax their catalytic converter. And of the couple that bit, after the smoke cleared, I folded "truth and light" in the middle and put it in my pocket.
The real question, however, is: Why does the bar need to be raised? And to what? It doesn't take a whole lot of tweaking and some regular practice --dry firing is great practice-- to be able to regularly shoot 1.0"-1.25" 5 shot groups. And that will do everything a hunter needs plus the targets look neat too. So why set the bar at say .5"? It takes a lot more work to move from 1" to .5" than it does to go from 2" to 1".
I'm sure it would be a boon to the smiths and the thingy salesmen but it could be very frustrating to the average shooter, even of the calibre that hang out here.

Well, if any of my rifles shot more than MOA they would hit the road. All my guns, except the shotguns of course (!!), shoot 0.5MOA or less. I want to be sure where I am hitting this animal when I aim at it, be it a rabbit or a deer or a gemsbok. And because I shoot for meat, I want them neck or headshot.

Was talking to my local gunsmith and he said that modern off-the-self, factory guns shoot better than bench rest guns 30 years ago (and he should know, he won the first british BR title!).

If anything, modern technology allows for tight tolerances easily and for mass produced rifles, to a level that custom riflesmiths would have envied 20-30 years ago; same goes for factory ammo.

If the manufacturers don't keep up, then it's their fault and the customer votes with his feet. So, buy Finnish or German, these guys set the bar at its proper level (and no complaints for ADs either!)

Finman

My two cents. Rock River says .75 MOA or less on their National Match AR's. From prone I can shoot a 3 to 4 minute group at 600 yards with it. Scoped and on bags it'll do 3/4" at 100 yards. Writters write articles to sell magazines, magazines make money selling advertising. Read what you want and spend time at the range shooting.