Need answers from people with experience.
When shot in the right body kill zone, at up to 200 yds., will factory loaded 25-35s, 30-30s and 32 specials yield in and out holes every time on mule deer size animals?
I have truly limited experience in this area so I am seeking,( I was there and did it), information.
Three or four inch Quakies or large wet phone books don't count. roger

I can tell you that a 30-30 170 gr. will not do a in and out on Mn. whitetail at 70 yards everytime.

The 25-35 and 30-30 and 32 special are not going to get in and out consistently on guys like this:



The 25-35 especially is a low energy cartridge with a 117 round nose bullet slightly over 2,100 FPS

My father once told me that the worst damage he had ever seen on a deer carcass was with a cast lead bullet from a 30-30 and I've also seen serious carnage from a 30-30 but exits every time?....I'm not sure anything will guarantee that short of a blast from the USS Wisconsin's 16" guns!

Just too many variables with bullet to flesh contacts...

My advice would be to put them in the right place and remove as necessary.

The only way I know to have an exit wound Every time is to use the Raptor bullet by Cutting Edge Bullets. Its a 130 grain hollow point that becomes 7 projectiles after impact.
The amount of damage it does is just crazy and the base will exit.

If you do a quick look up for CEB bullets or Raptor you should find some pictures of what it does.

Cheers, John

After laughing hysterically at my own post I deleted it and just thought I'd say
"That's what she said"

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
After laughing hysterically at my own post I deleted it and just thought I'd say
"That's what she said"

Come now boomie, you now us those gems of marketing you come up with.

Just yesterday I wound up a serious British Deer society tweedy-type in a conversation about ballistics using your wonderful "Circle of death overlap the circle of life" bit!

Most .30-30 bullets are of thin construction. The jackets are thin and consequently they tend to expand a lot even at the low velocities the cartridge generates.

Some of the worst meat destruction I have seen was caused by .30-30's used at close range. Beyond 50 yds the bullets has shed enough velocity to become less explosive but at 25 they tend to open up quickly. The old Winchester Silvertips really did a lot of damage.

If you handload, you could substitute a 180 gn roundnose, and that would improve your odds of a through and through but I would never say it will guarantee it.

Roger -

I know you have the experience to not be speaking in absolute terms, so I'll answer this way:

"Do the cartridges listed ordinarily deliver complete penetration of the vital area on deer, and exit on the far side?"

Not in my experience. Of those listed, I have experienced the best penetration from the 117 grain .25-35 round nosed bullets. They do have relatively low kinetic energy, but have quite good sectional density and so often penetrate fairly deeply on really thin skinned animals.

But I never expect complete penetration by even half of any of those rounds fired....especially if they hit relatively large bones on entry.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The 25-35 and 30-30 and 32 special are not going to get in and out consistently on guys like this:



The 25-35 especially is a low energy cartridge with a 117 round nose bullet slightly over 2,100 FPS

My father once told me that the worst damage he had ever seen on a deer carcass was with a cast lead bullet from a 30-30 and I've also seen serious carnage from a 30-30 but exits every time?....I'm not sure anything will guarantee that short of a blast from the USS Wisconsin's 16" guns!

Why is advice you give always a guess?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Roger -

I know you have the experience to not be speaking in absolute terms, so I'll answer this way:

"Do the cartridges listed ordinarily deliver complete penetration of the vital area on deer, and exit on the far side?"

AC, This thread started as a tongue in cheek type of thing. A poster on another thread whom I truly respect made a statement that he uses bullets that produce two holes EVERY TIME. I also know that he has a hand me down 25-35 that a number of his family, including him , have used to kill a fair number of elk and mule deer.
@What I originally stated was true ; I've had limited "hunting" experience with the cartridges under consideration ; one large doe head on at 30 yds.with a FP 87grain 25 cal. @ 2600 fps.,middle of the chest , bang flop. The bullet did not exit.
I really wanted to see what others have witnessed using factory loads rather than something like FMJ hot reloads, per sey. I hope we will hear more. roger

Are 2 holes necessary? I used my .308 to take my deer this year And last year. Both shots were under 60 yards and I used a 168 gr Hornady AMax. My target, ultra accurate load, and neither bullet left an exit hole. Both deer were DRT.

Roger,

I believe it has to do with bullet construction and those calibers you mentioned aren't high velocity rounds so the bullet jackets are constructed to expand reliably at their velocities. With that say I shot a 150 pound doe with my Model 94 32 Special using a 175 grain cast bullet cast of 50/50 wheel weight/lead at 100 yards. She was facing me at a slight angle and the bullet entered the right chest shoulder area and exited her left ham. When I was gutted her it was total destruction throughout the entire body. I sure wish I could have found the bullet. I didn't have it loaded to jacketed 32 velocity.

I have gotten two holes on both deer and bull elk with the 117 gr. Corelokt and the Win. SP more times than not..the same can be said for the 30-30 and the 170 gr.

Keep in mind, these slower bullets that expand slower and meet less resistence tend to penetrate very well indeed. Granted they do not do the damange that the bigger guns do, that's a given, but they do penetrate..

One wonders sometimes on these forum if the poster has actually ever shot anything with a 30-30 or 25-35...I lived with a 25-35 in my mispent cowboy youth, never felt the need for more gun, and today I still have that gun, and I still use it fairly regularly..all I have to do is keep my shots under about 250 yards..

The bullets that do not penetrate with the 30-30 and the 25-35, like many other calibers are those animals shot at close range where velocity stops the bullet quicker..but at that short range who cares..

I would as soon use a iron sighted 25-35 or 30-30 up to 200 yards as any other rifle regardless or caliber or sighting equipment, and I have that option open to me in my gun cabinet for sure.

Loud and clear, Ray!!! roger