Ray-it's good to hear you back--amen to what you said...

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Getting ready to order a HS Precision Sporter and am leaning toward 270win due to availablity of different bullets/ammo as I do not reload. This gun will be used exclusively for whitetails in the southeast so 130grn is all I'll need. However, a friend is trying to convince me to go with the 270wsm. After comparing the ballistics, I see the 270wsm drops 1 inch less at 300 yds and has about 300 more fps at 200 yds. Doesn't seem like a big difference to me. Am I missing something?

Back40... You are missing nothing. I would pick the 270 winchester. The 1 inch drop at 300 yards is a joke, and from rifle to rifle this may not even be true. 270 ammo is everywhere, world wide. Since you have a custome rifle being built, what barrel length have you settled on? 25-26" is great for the 270 win IMO.

I could be very happy with either rifle. I own and hunt with a .270WIN it's a great round that will put down whitetails as far as I can shoot them. The .270Win ammo should be avalible in more places and should be a little cheaper to boot. All that said, I love the .270WSM concept, short, fat and fast. I think either one will work for what you want.

Terry

Loaded to the same pressure the WSM wouldn't be able to beat the .270 win by 100fps. The standard .270 will hold more rounds, feed better, have better availability of ammo, and have cheaper ammo. The WSM's are only good for Winchester to sell more guns!

The thing that separates magnums from standards is long range killing power. Things like trajectory and wind drift matter too but just a couple of hundred fps more means a lot more power.

Start with the rifle. If it's going to have a stout barrel and be 24" or longer you may as well fill up the chamber with a magnum. On the other hand if it's going to be a light rifle and have a 22" barrel then the standard cartridge is a better fit.

It's easy to sit here and throw stuff around but when something is out there at 400 yds and you can laser it then the magnum can be sporting and the standard not.

Certainly most people can handle the recoil of a 270 WSM and few of us are so poor as not to be able to pony up for the nickel extra a handload costs in the more powerful round.

I'm not sure what kind of velocity the WSM is capable of but the Hornady LM 130 gr hums along at 3215 fps (according to them). That doesn't sound too anemic to me!!



Depending on your load, a 130gr bullet from a 270 Win with a 200-225 yard zero should only drop ~16-18 inches at 400 yards. I like fast, flat cartidges so I'll be curious to see what the 270 WSM is capable of too.



For now, my vote would go to the 270 Win.

I'll chime in with a thought or two--first off I have little or no experience first hand with the 270 WSM-I do have several friends using them but I do not-I'll take my 7 Mashburn if I want to use something more than my 270. Now with the plain old 270 I'd hazzard to say I have as much or more experience with it than most around this country.

That said, I've found it to be of no rocket science to move a 130 out of a plain Jane 270 at 3200 with R22 in 22-23" tubes.

My last 270 tube I had it cut to 25" at first-it would move the 130 and 135 MK's along at a bit over 3300 and it would move the 150' along at 3100. And the 160's at 3000.

Honestly I don't know for sure but my gut feling is that at most the 270 WSM is gonna have plus 150 fps--you are gonna have some fast tubes and some slow tubes-now those slow ones will no doubt be right with my day to day 270 tubes.

Just my thoughts--personally I'd say go either 270 or go to a 7 of some type if you thought you wanted more.

Have a super night.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

I own a 270 but think you need to compare the 270wsm to the 270 wby. I don't mean to start anything but the 270wsm does have it over he 270. Alot of people don't like the wsm and will use any thing to down play them. Your buying a custom rifle so why not get the most out of it. It's a rifle if you want to hunt elk deer maybe not bear. If you decide to reload you will have more options. I own a custom 300wsm and it's a great round. Go to shortmag.com and see the comments. I started reloding in the 60's and was around when the 300mag came out same type of hype now as then short neck etc. 300 wby is better on and on. I don't have a need for another 270 but if I did it would be a 270wsm. I'm waiting for a 25wsm. Tom

I started hunting when I was 12 with a 270 Win. and have done so, on and off (mostly on) ever since. I have a friend who shoots a 270 Weatherby Mag, and he and I have hunted togather many times over about 20 years. I can't tell any difference in the field between his rifle and mine on game. But Mine holds 2 more rounds in the mag, and will shoot a tighter group (a little) than his gun. The Weatherby is more powerful than the W.S.M., and as I said, in the field on deer and elk, there is NO difference so I can bet that there is even less between the W.S.M. and the old original.

Go with the Old Original!

Look at the accuratearms website. They show the WSM 30fps faster with the same 130gr, but at 2000lbs higer pressure. That makes them equal, with the same pressure. If you go with a WSM you will get less capacity, poor feeding, higher cost, same performance.

buchsenschmeid I agree... and will take it a step further. I started hunting in Alaska with a 280, then a 7 mag, and always with a 300 win mag. When I got my hands on a 270 winchester, I could not tell the difference in penetration or time it took for game to die with 270,7mag, and 280 but the 300 did make a difference, especialy on heavey bones. The 270 was more accurate in my rifle than my 280, and 7mag, so I just retiered the other two.

I dont agree that you might as well goto a "magnum" if you have the action length to do it. The 270 winchester IMO, is maxed out in this caliber, and I see no other gains until I pick up a 300.

Oh! By all means go with the WSM. Yes ammo my not be readily attainable on a hunt ,but what a small price to pay for the privilage of having a collecters item in 25 yrs.

The man had it right. These new cartridges are just a marketing ploy to sell more guns to the unweary. But if you want that new type of toy more power to you. Someone has to keep Remington & Winchester alive. roger

Not in the least are you missing a thing. foot pounds, nor anything else kill any game, better than good old shot placement.

the 270 winchester has been around for almost 80 yrs.

I will be surprised if the Short Mag Craze will survive the next 10 yrs.

Hey, if they do, you can always trade in the 270 Winchester for a Short Mag 270, if you think that it will give you something extra.

Me personally, I would tend to be more interested in a 270 in a 308 case than in a short mag. Ballistically a wild cat 270/308 will give you the velocity of the larger case, with a fair amount of less powder.

In my opinion for the 2 cents it is worth, any caliber lower than 7 mm, does not really need a case any bigger than the 308, or the 7 x 57 case at the most.

Even in 30 caliber, you have to get bullet weights at or above 180 grains for their to be any difference in a 308 and a 30/06. ( i own the '06s but no 308s, more about tradition than anything else).

When you get below 25 caliber, the old 250 savage case is more than enough in the real world.

More case capacity give you a lot more throat erosion first, velocity increases second. It also gives you more recoil, which makes it more important you can handle the recoil to be able to make your shot placements as well with the bigger capacity as you can with a smaller less recoiling caliber.

That is my 2 cents worth, but it is a BIG 2 cents!

Savage makes some interesting points. Mags give you more " longer" range, than shorter cases.

However, pay a little attention to the ballistic charts and you will find that often that the increase is 25 to 30 yds maybe, for a lot more recoil and an lot more throat erosion ( less barrel life).

I really don't consider the extra 25 to 30 yds, as much of a " long range" increase.

Originally Magnums were for african big game at close range. such as the good old 375 H & H.

compare ballistic tables on a 338/06 versus a 338 mag, or even a 340 Weatherby, or the 35 Whelan and the 358 Norma Mag, or even the 358 STA. Kills are made with shot placement, not foot pounds.

An increase in a powder charges, demands more skill in the shooter to handle it via the increase in recoil. Nowhere as many who think they are up to the task really are. Most mag shooters I know can shoot better with a smaller caliber than they can with their big mag. ( tho they don't like to public admit it, because they think they are admitting they are some sort of weenie.)

I'd trust a guy elk hunting with a 6mm Remington with a decent bullet who is a dead shot, than another guy with a 300 mag, that can't hit anything smaller than Texas with it, because he is flinching before the trigger is completely engaged.

If a guy can handle it, i don't care if he uses a 106 mm recoilless rifle, or an RPG. shoot placement is the key, period.

Apart from falling in love with ballistic data - which we all do from time to time - we should not forget, that the listed increases are a lot more prominent on paper than they are in the field. If you want to use your rifle to hunt whitetails, then surely either cartridge will do the job. Actually, one could argue that either cartridge is actually a tad fast (the WSM obviously even more so) and so would tend to produce more meat damage than you might like.

- mike

I would go with the WSM. Your looking at the future of guns whether we like it or not. I can't figure out why people get so emotional over this. I like most of you have a .270Win and 30-06 and like most have had good success with it. But I have found these WSM so easy to work up a load for. I have done it several times. I can find an opt. load for a 308Win twice as quick as 30-06. I am a true believer in short actions.



As far as being a collectors item. Well see. I highly doubt it. After going to bass pro and not being able to buy a gun of my choice in a std. caliber like 270win, 30-06 and even 308 cause all they got on the shelfs is mainly WSM's. It was discouraging to me. But it was time to face facts.



Major Caliber, do you have any data of your own to support your facts or just things you read?

This is 270 WSM real world data...not my own

Barnes XLC/BT 130 .277" 2.797" 72.0 IMR 4350 62.0 CCI 250 3141 2849 0.9
Barnes XLC/BT 130 .277" 2.797" 72.0 IMR 7828 68.5 CCI 250 3303 3150 0.5
Barnes XLC/BT 130 .277" 2.797" 72.0 Reloder 19 66.0 CCI 250 3351 3242 0.7
Barnes XLC/BT 130 .277" 2.797" 72.0 Reloder 22 68.5 CCI 250 3319 3181 0.9
Barnes XLC/BT 130 .277" 2.797" 72.0 RS Magnum 73.5 CCI 250 3147 2860 0.9
Hornady SP Interlock 130 .277" 2.720" 73.5 IMR 4350 63.5 CCI 250 3253 3055 0.8
Hornady SP Interlock 130 .277" 2.720" 73.5 IMR 7828 70.0 CCI 250 3322 3186 0.4
Hornady SP Interlock 130 .277" 2.720" 73.5 Reloder 19 66.0 CCI 250 3263 3074 0.7
Hornady SP Interlock 130 .277" 2.720" 73.5 Reloder 22 70.0 CCI 250 3330 3144 0.5
Hornady SP Interlock 130 .277" 2.720" 73.5 RS Magnum 75.0 CCI 250 3234 3020 0.8
Nosler Partition 130 .277" 2.780" 72.1 Re19 64.5 Fed 215 3257 3063 1.1
Nosler Partition 130 .277" 2.780" 72.1 Re22 68.0 Fed 215 3274 3095 1.0
Nosler Partition 130 .277" 2.780" 72.1 IMR7828 67.5 Fed 215 3300 3124 0.6
Sierra SBT 140 .277" 2.746" 71.9 Reloder 22 66.0 CCI 250 3119 3025 0.9
Sierra SBT 140 .277" 2.746" 71.9 H 1000 70.0 CCI 250 3019 2834 0.9
Sierra SBT 140 .277" 2.746" 71.9 IMR 7828 67.0 CCI 250 3198 3180 0.5
Sierra SBT 140 .277" 2.746" 71.9 RS Magnum 72.5 CCI 250 3138 3062 0.6
Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 .277" 2.823" 71.8 Reloder 22 65.5 CCI 250 3073 3146 0.6
Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 .277" 2.823" 71.8 Reloder 25 68.0 CCI 250 3023 3045 0.7
Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 .277" 2.823" 71.8 IMR 7828 65.5 CCI 250 3109 3220 0.5
Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 .277" 2.823" 71.8 RS Magnum 71.0 CCI 250 3005 3008 0.9
Nosler Partition 150 .277" 2.773" 72.2 Reloder 22 66.0 CCI 250 3129 3262 0.5
Nosler Partition 150 .277" 2.773" 72.2 Reloder 25 68.0 CCI 250 3021 3041 0.5
Nosler Partition 150 .277" 2.773" 72.2 IMR 4350 60.5 CCI 250 3071 3142 0.7
Nosler Partition 150 .277" 2.773" 72.2 IMR 7828 66.5 CCI 250 3143 3291 0.4
Nosler Partition 150 .277" 2.773" 72.2 RS Magnum 71.5 CCI 250 3074 3148 0.7

Can't post any real world WSM data of my own, because I don't want a WSM! I can get 3100fps with a 150gr in my 24" 270 Win, that pretty much matches any data I have seen for the WSM.

The Smallest Mag I have is a 7mm Rem Mag, it may be obsolete but I get 3300fps with a 140gr in my 26" barrel.

No, you are not missing anything. Since you don't reload, I think the 270 Win. is the beter choice. Performance, in the field, will be indestenguishable.

3100 fps with 150gr 270? - wow!
A 30-06 with 150 gr will barely make 2950
My 270 with RL22 limits out at 2950 (24") - at 3000 fps the primers fall out.

From what I see the 270 WSM is a 200 fps plus over the reg 270 - and it should be with the bigger more efficient case case.

I would go with the WSM for personal reasons.

B40 - I'll add my thought on this subject. Over my life I've known some exceptional shots. Most of them shot the 270. None of them ever once said, "This just isn't enough gun. I've got to get something hotter."

well major caliber, I have never been able to reach 3100fps with 150gr bullet in a 06 and definatly not with a 270win. Granted I only loaded for 24" barrels but I still wonder what kinda magic load your using? What powder you achieveing that speed with. If you don't have any data, then what are basing all your claims on????

Since you do not reload, my pick would be the .270 Win. It's nice to be able to buy Walmart specials for $8-10/box for practice vs $18-20 for the WSM. If you do reload, I would still pick the Win version for sentimental reasons, but the WSM becomes a more attractive alternative. The WSM is 150-200 fps faster than the Winchester version. I personally believe 150-200 fps to be a pretty decent velocity gain. Not up close where velocity is still high, but waaay down range where velocity drops off. Basically, you get .270 Win performance 100 yards further out. On the other hand, the .270 Win has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is extremely effective out to well beyond 300 yards for deer sized game, so the added 200 fps or so will not make much of a difference in your case.

Regards,

Lou

Sounds like Hornady Light magnums might be the ticket for getting the extra 150-200fps out of my 270 should I ever feel the need which I doubt. My testosterone level is not what is used to be.

Good luck, I along with 2 other rifles couldn't get the 308 light magnums to shoot worth a darn.

Real World??????? Bigcountry Maryland??? Bass pro for rifles???? OK!!!!! roger

Thanks guys, but I got the gunshops covered from Ky to WV to MD. There is a few criteria when buying a gun for me. One, that the price be decent, two that its what I want. I am really not sure what you guys are getting at with your replies to me. What I am trying to explain to you is I used one example to show you how these guns are being pushed. You obviously don't agree. And probably only shop at one store that has been around for a gazillion years. What I am trying to explain to you, is what is about to come. Real World boys, face it. I shop on the internet, thru my gunsmith, and several others. I have only bought one gun at the new bass pro.

Plenty of .270 win's, 243's and 30-06's at Wal-Mart. They sell a few WSM's too, most people that buy them, wish they had not!

Wow, according to this major caliber, there is nothing good about any WSM or RUM or SAUM, yet he doesn't want one and has never had one. I have yet to see anyone, say on these or other pages, "boy I wish I didn't get that WSM". Major, think your a tad full of it. I understand your emotional upset over these calibers coming to the market. I think you feel your favorite calibers are being threatened to extinction for the future. I mean I have heard alot of hot air from your posts. I really enjoyed the ones about 3100fps is easy with 30-06. Still haven't heard that magic load your using. I myself do not have WSM's, but do load for a few. I mean what do you want, you point the gun, you fire the gun, the animal drops, you go get it.

I do understand where you are coming from. I also was on the defense when they came out. Never thought they would last, and figured out it was just my my anxiety that good ole calibers like the 30-06, 308, 270 would not get the attention they deserve like they had so much in the past.

Magnums are in the mind of the shooter up to 30 caliber IMO...The .270 will do anything the 7 mag will do from a practical standpoint and in real world hunting situations..

I have shot too much game to get excited over magnumitas..I cannot tell any difference in killing power and trajectory, regardless of the "paper balistics"....

I shoot a 300 H&H and love it, but I don't kid myself that my 06 is not up to doing about as good a job....

The .270 Win is pretty hard to beat for most hunting situations...and I would much prefer it to the new kid on the block, as it has been proving and re proving itself for a heck of a long time and has always passed the muster.

Hell will freeze over before the 30-06 and the .270 are laid to rest, at least by folks that have used them....

Well

Get a 270 Winchester. You can find loads of ammo components in most parts of the world.

If the 270 win doesn't work for whitetails, sheeps and goats the 270 WSM is not going to help you either.

/ JOHAN

Golly!! The only emotional defensiveness seems to be coming from Finksburg MD. Fess up Big Country ; is there really a FINKSBURG???? You're joshen us. Right? roger

Here is published data showing 3143fps from a 150gr in a 22" 270 win.

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=105922&c=500&z=1"][/url]

3100fps with a 150gr is easy in a 30-06, 53gr's of IMR4064 or 59gr's of H-414, or 60gr of IMR-4350 will do it. This is max or a gr over in some books, but still at a lower pressure than the WSM operate!

That 31XX looks like a typo to me. What is the source of the data? Note that velocity tops the 270 Weatherby Mag!

Go to the current page at AA website and tell us what it says for 58 grs of 3100 in a 270 Winchester.