Late on Friday afternoon I was called upon tracking a wounded roebuck that was shot in a tall grass with .30-06 Geco 11 g bullet on a distance of approx 160 m. Along with bad aim, it was also possible that bullet hit the grass in front of the buck and deviated even lower grazing buck low on the front right leg.



Buck put us under his conditions – seeking hide in a small territory of approx 200 x 200 m, overgrown with dense - chin height undergrowth like this (picture of a doe taken from high seat):



What a nightmare. Buck was constantly making circles and hooks, returning to the same place, then going in some new direction just to be back and so on and on…tracks (bucks, dogs as well as mine were everywhere and dog had lots of trouble making it out... After 1 desperate hour of hide and seek with folding light, buck tried to pay out the effort that he has put in so far and took a stealthy (in his mind) flight out of the mess headed in high grass meadow close by, looking back to see if his pursuers would figure that last loop out. All I saw was his head looking back at me some 50 m away (the rest of his body was unseen – hidden in the grass) I took a desperate aim below his head where I thought his chest may be and let a bullet go. Since it was after the rain shower and grass was full of water all that remained of my sight was a huge balloon of evaporated water that bullet has raised after going through some 15-20 m grass hitting the buck as seen below:

Entry wound:



Exit wound:



After seen many caliber/bullets fail under such conditions 9,3x62 with 19 g TUG proved again that this is a good combo for such a job.

i think a 357 mag would have killed it w/ that shot placement and a 45-70 would have had no more affect with the initial shot.
again to prove that it aint the caliber its the placement.

Phew! I'll bet you were happy when that job had successfully been completed. There is indeed something to be said for heavier calibers and bullets when the only option is to shoot through vegetation. All bullets deflect, but heavy (and heavy jacketed) bullets less so.

- mike

Nice shot.

Tall grass is a complete killer on all bullets especially when it´s at some distance to the intended game or target.

I am glad for you Mouse that it all finaly turned out good.

Am I being wrong in that I do start to think that for roedeer a 6,5 mm bullet is the minimum?

Here in Sweden a .222 rem is legal for roedeer, even a .22 K-Hornet would be legal with 50 grain bullets but are they a sound choice?

Then again in high seats and when near buildings and people perhaps?

However for general use I doubt it, I just cant wait to use my drilling in 7x57R come fall roedeer season and in between my ds in 9,3x74R, there is something to be said for the slower heavier bullets even on such a small game as a roe.

Let me guess, the buck fell and stayed put after taking that hit, right?

Best regards Chris.

Great shot buddy !!!

Thanks for taking the time of posting pictures, I love to see and hear what my beloved 9,3x62 caliber does...

The good thing with this caliber is that despite not having too much recoil it hits hard and doesn't mind where you hit it, the "push" in the animal is so big that it will give you a second oportunity to shoot again.

L

Excellent game of hide and seek, with you the winner, with a PERFECT shot.
Good job!!

Don

Good job Mouse93.
Again the "heavy / slow" bullet shines
Not an 9,3 owner, but my experience with the 35 Whelen/250 gr Woodleigh says it is just as much at home hunting the roe as the moose.

Great Follow-up Mouse93

I'm a great believer in the bigger calibres for when the going gets tough. Small calibres are fine where time can be taken with accurate shot placement. When the going gets tough get the heavy artillary out.

Mark

Well done Mouse! Good pics too. Was that the new TUG's or the older style?

Mouse,
Thanks for the report and photographs.

Goodonya Mate

huh - thanks guys - tho it was a realy lucky shot - as they say - beggars can't be choosers -

.366torque it was new one(left on the pic):



P.S. - I found myself many times looking for something new and was determined to change the bullet after my stocks run dry (I still don’t like fragmentation of the front part of the TUG), but at the end things like that happen and I guess I will stick with it for some more…

Nice job!

What's the difference in the Tug bullets - new vs. old? We don't get much exposure to RWS ammo here.

Just curious as I happened in to a small supply of several boxes of various 9.3x74R RWS factory loads in various bullet weights which includes some Tug loadings.

Mine appear to be the "old" style (the one on the right).

I was wondering the same thing so I contacted Brenneke and got answer from Dr. Peter Mank as follows:

"The older bullets with the tail groove in front - just behind the cutting edge (the right one on your picture) - were replaced at beginning of 2005 by the other ones (left on your picture) which have that groove way behind. If you would have a look on the whole bullet you would see that there are total three grooves now than two before. The reason for changing the design were some complaints of customers who found out that the cores came out of the jacket totally in some cases. Specially on big or dangerous game this could cause serious problems. With the new design you are on the safe side and the TUG will work very well as exspected. Now you can be assured that the performance is reliable because the grooves will hold the jacket and the rear core together in any case.

best regards,

Dr. Peter Mank
Managing Director

B R E N N E K E G M B H
P.O. Box 16 46 - 30837 Langenhagen - Germany
Tel.: +49 (0)511-97262-0 - Fax: +49 (0)511-97262-62"

Thanks. Very interesting.

I'm sure they will still work on white tail deer size game.

no doubt they will work on any critters you will find - I didn't noticed any difference in 9,3x62 even less they are expected in 9,3x74R - I bet that fuzz over cores coming out of jacket derived from 9,3x64 and .375 H&H...

Just had some spectacular bullet failures from the same bullets which I have writtten up for the African Hunter magazine. Nothing like the old ones (pre 1985) that I was issued. Found a couple of those old rounds (without any groove between the cutting edge and the crimping groove) and chrono'ed and sectioned them. A) they had a bonded core locked in and b) were going 100fps faster!

Hum - here is a link to a thread where Steve Malinverni mentioned a failure on blesbock in Namibia (2 nd reply) - never happened to me tho, but...:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=918102714#918102714

got another one last friday - this time with a bullet on the right

good sign on the spot:



- entry on the shoulder:



exit behind the shoulder:



...meat damage results with 9,3x62 and TUG on 13 kg ~ 29 lbs critter - quite acceptable...

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
got another one last friday - this time with a bullet on the right

good sign on the spot:

I like how the cutting edges work! The Germans sure do like to "engineer".

good shooting, Herr Mouse! I'm glad you got little Hansy, and that he didn't go off to die somewhere! That 9.3 looks very effective for such shooting!

This small guy - came on call (rut time here) was allready "pumped up - "expectation mode" and took it like a big guy (he made some 30 meters from the spot) - tell me about "killing power" - his left shoulder was broken - upper half of the hart was missing (sorry bit blury):




I was actually anticipating that shot will nail him in his tracks...like the one from the last year (same caliber/bullet - yes that rim does make a nice entry that never closes - very usefull on bigger critters when there is no exit wound) - entry:



exit:

It's too bad that bullet is unavaible for reloading here, at least I can't find it. Good blood letting is always a plus.
Thanks for the pics too!!

Mouse -

I use a lot of the heaviest factory-loaded RWS H-Mantle bullets in my 7x65-R. I Have never tried a TUG of any weight in any rifle. What is the normally anticipated difference between the two, performance-wise?

Very interesting. Thanks for the diligent report and the good reports. The posting amply shows that a roe - not being very resilient game - can be killed even by a TUG, in spite of the latter's bad reputation in Germany.

As to the terminal ballistic performance of bullets that I shall call "semi-FMJs", here is an excellent *.pdf file with an extensive test report by a German forester about the Impala bullets. My summary: they do kill eventually, sometimes slower, sometimes quicker, and so would a military FMJ.

http://www.imagenetz.de/f833bf91a/Impalatest.pdf

Regards, Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Mouse -

I use a lot of the heaviest factory-loaded RWS H-Mantle bullets in my 7x65-R. I Have never tried a TUG of any weight in any rifle. What is the normally anticipated difference between the two, performance-wise?

AC sorry was away - hard to comment on H-mantel never used one (tho seen some at work) maybe someone with greater knowledge should jump in...just some observations H mantel are kind'a softer - don't penetrate that deep and shed fragments from softer front in some different way (may get bigger exits) than TUG does (note the difference in rear core shape and difference in jacket material - looks like nickel-plated steel jacket on TUG according to copper one on H mantel also has something to do with it)...all in all IMO - TUG (293grs/19 g) and 9,3x62 with ~2420 fps/740 mps is a great marriage (tho would love to see that proportion between harder (rear) and softer (front) lead more in favour of harder lead (more weight retention) for lets say some 15% ?...

Tracked red deer calf today initialy shot (grazed) by my friend high on the back:



initial shot is marked blue - marked red is exit from my "coupe de grace" (shot through both shoulders) - 9,3x62 RWS TUG 19g.

Close up of exit (sorry about pic quality - taken with mobile phone):

mouse...

great reporting and pics! Makes me a lot more confident of the purchase I made earlier this month. I bought a husky 649 in 9.3x64 for 400 bucks. Included a 2.5x scope.

archdlx...a new 9.3er!!