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I'm curious as to what velocity you got ? Sucks a big one that Ruger quit the normal Stainless Synthetic 24" barrel in 338 WM. I'm planning on getting another Ruger 338 and looking for chronograph results . Thanks !!!! Glen. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | ||
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I.have a stainless Ruger Mark II that I.have shot 3/4 inch.groups with at 200 yards with factory ammo .It's in a Boyds laminated stock .It kicks less than any 338 I have .Ruger is screwing up by stop making the regular stainless and putting.It in junky Ruger American .A 20 inch.338 win mag has to be very loud and is going to lose some speed .I like the old original Ruger 77 in the 338 best because of the safety but it's not stainless .I.have one someone coated to look stainless but I.need a better stock on it .All six of my Ruger 338 win mag rifles are super accurate! | |||
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I've had 9 or 10 different Ruger 338 Winchester rifles . When I had my 9.3 built I figured I didn't need another. Was going to rebarrel my 458 back to a 338 But couldn't do it. I'm curious as to how much velocity is lost in the 4" I like how the Guide Gun/Rifle is set up . Just not sure on the velocity loss. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I cut 3" off of my Ruger 77 in 338. I lost 65 fps. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Ok, thanks. So, in theory , if a 250 gr had a MV of 2700 fps. With the 20" on the Guide Gun . Should still be getting 2600 ish . Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Unless you wear hearing protection when you're hunting I'd be very concerned about the muzzle blast from a 20" .338 Mag. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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I don't think it will be any worse than my 458 that has a muzzle brake. I've shot it lots without hearing protection. In some pretty tight quarters where lots of the noise was bounced back at me. . It would clap my ears. But no worse than a short barrelled 357 mag. And not as bad as a 4" barrelled 500 Smith. I really like short barrelled hunting rifles. Thank you for your concern and obviously most of the shooting I do will be with hearing protection. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Have spent my career around really loud equipment my ears are kindof accustomed to it. But, for being in my mid 50s I can still hear ok. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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There is one for sale in a local shop here and I was wondering how accurate this thing is ? What kind of groups can one expect from it ? | |||
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I would think it would be as accurate as any stainless Ruger 338. Well, the M77 Mk ll line. I never had an inaccurate one. I didn't real do any exhaustive accuracy tests . But a couple of them would give groups of 5/8" @ 200 with the 300 gr Barnes Original rnsp. Pushed by a heavily compressed load of 7828. It wasn't an ideal load. Too much powder compression , gave erratic velocities. The low would be around 2400 fps and the high around 2550 fps. But, in my pre internet days , All I was after was maximum safe Smash. Turning what was in my mind from an elk rifle into a useful brown bear defense rifle. Anyway, the rifles, I shot the heck out of several of mine. Most all of mine were at least 1.5 moa @ 100 . Some were 1/2 moa and better . Like I said. I didn't try to get the ultimate accuracy out of them. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I reckon you could go with losing a 100 fps and be safe with about any powder, and I suspect both of us can throw a rock that fast.. I shoot my Ruger African with a top load or RL-19 or Rl-22 and get 2913 ave for 10 shots taking out the high and low, with a 225 Nosler or Accubond, so you should be able to manage 2800 fps at least, and that's a real killer of big stuff... Ive shot 3 elk, actually 4 in that I cleaned up a mess with one,all with the Accubonds or partitions with that load and none went more than about 20 yards.. The 225 is a great bullet, but Im thinking Ill go back to the 250 gr. Nosler Partition, I think I liked it better as it thumped them a bit better, or so it seemed to me. In the bush the 300 gr RN Woodleigh is awesome, I love that bullet, but its a short range bullet.. Bottom line I doubt if anyone could tell the difference in 100 FPS loss. If you do it won't be in Killing power, maybe slightly in trajectory, but I even doubt that. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thats what I'm hoping . 100 fps with a 250 gr. Even tho I can come close to 2600 fps with my 375 Whelan A.I. . But, I can't buy 375 W.A.I. ammo. I did have a 20 " 338 quite a while ago . but it was 4 port MagNaPorted. So I know it was loosing velocity to that. As I remember I was getting around 2500-2550 with 250 gr factory ammo. I'm going to give H 4831 and maybe that new IMR powder that is in the same burn rate category a good try. I had very good velocity with the 275 gr bullets with IMR 4831 , hopefully Hodgdon will be a winner. If its not a temp stability powder , I don't want to get too invested in it. I'll probably get a throating reamer and push the throat out a little so I can utilize the full mag box length. That was a big problem I had with loading the 300 gr Barnes rnsp. Had to load them shorter than 3.2" to keep the bullet from jamming the lands. I'll also play around with the 225s or there about . Would be nice to find a good bullet with a G1 BC of more than .5 . Thanks for the advice Ray ! Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Keep in mind that you have very little neck to push the shoulder out on a .338 case..be better off to rechamber to a 375 ruger case IMO, that should be ideal..but a 340 wby is another option, I have often thought about the 9.3x62 case with a blown out shoulder necked down to .338, but not sure if that's wise, would have to think long and hard on that and get out the ole slide rule to make me cheat.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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No, I just want to be able to utilize the full 3.340 oal that the magazine is built for. I want to keep it a standard 338 Winchester Magnum. Because it is the most common intelligent round that I've found in the Interior. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Now that is the best most intelligent and well thought through comment ever on AR  Exactly ! | |||
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Its only taken me since October of 78. Thats 39 years to finally figure that out. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I am a late bloomer when it comes to hunting, and started just before I retired from the military in the early '90s. Anyway, my first hunting rifle was a Ruger .338WM that had a push-feed bolt. Then Ruger decided to make the bolt and rifle CRF for a small fee, and i sent the rifle to them for the work. The sent it back to me with two bolts, the original push-feed with claw extractor, and a new CRF one. They also modified the feed ramp. I still use that rifle today, but this year I will be using another Ruger .338WM, the African version Hawkeye that has a McMillan stock (I put the beautiful walnut stock away). The rifle has a 22" barrel (no muzzle brake) with express sights, but I mounted on it a Leupold scope with quick-disconnect rings. This is quite a good-looking rifle, and I can hardly wait to sight it at the range. | |||
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I think the guide and the African are the nicest rifles Ruger has produced since the express project is gone. | |||
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Ray Alaska, Wow, only 39 years, it took me longer than that by a good deal, but I got suspicious at about 39 best I recall..but Im a confirmed .338 Win, user as we speak..  I agree todays Ruger is the best commercial rifle out there IMO...I particularly like the African model, Ive had such good luck with it and its got the proper lines to suit me. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Yes, its quite a good-looking rifle. My wife looks at me like I am crazy when I look at the rifle and ask her, "don't you think this rifle is beautiful?" Then she asks, "aren't you going to kiss it goodnight before you put it away?"  | |||
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+1. LOVE the African model, especially the open sights (best rear sight offerd comercially factory IMHO, plus the banded front sight with 3/32 white front bead) and the slim stock design, which fits my smaller hands, plus keeps the rifle weight to about 7.75 lbs. I just picked up a NIB African in 338WM for $550. It was the older type with no muzzle break, matt finish, and barrel band front swivel. Score... | |||
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Sweeeet  "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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Wow, ya that is a Sweet deal !! Actually, if Ruger offered the M77 Hawkeye FTW . In 338 W.M. That would be IMO perfect. Stainless with a camo finish laminated stock . Adjustable lop that is flat bottomed for bean bag sock use. 22" barrel with a cob or cap. And a balancing weight thrown in to boot. A 22" barrel won't leave velocity on the ground. And is nice and handy in the brush. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Not laminate stock but here is a Ruger M77 All Weather Hawkeye for $499.99 and they have 18 in stock https://www.cdnnsports.com/rug...eather.html?___SID=U | |||
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I've thot about that one. I really like how the Guide Gun is set up tho. It has all the desired bits already on it. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I agree! I have the 375 Ruger Guide Gun. I have a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36mm with Alaskan Arms quick detach rings. Then I have NECG Ruger Ghost Ring Peep Sight that fastens where the rear ring mounts for thick timber areas. | |||
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I'll probably go with the Vortex Viper PST II 1-6 . I can range with it if need be . and it has a full 4" eye relief. Very nice illuminated reticle . and 1 power on the low end . my eyes are not good enough for fast shooting with irons any more. But I can still shoot fairly well with irons for some things. There have been a few times over the years that I've had to shoot deer at over 400 yards. And I always turned my 3-9 to 6× if I had a variable . So I just went to 1.75-6× or 1.5-6× scopes. But they were all 1" tube. I'm changing all my scopes to 30 mm or larger tubes . They are SOOOO bright and clear. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I have problem with open sights too! Aligning the rear sight to front sight then there is the target or animal. To align all 3 up can be challenging.That is why I went with a Ghost Ring Peep Sight. Ghost ring is a ghost and your eye centers in it. All you concentrate is the front sight and target. With both eyes open it is like shooting a shotgun. | |||
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This is the one I like the most, but without the muzzle brake. Mine is not even threaded for a muzzle brake. However, if yours has a muzzle brake, then you can use the threads for a suppressor: http://www.ruger.com/products/...eAfrican/models.html The bolt on mine is os a dull gray color, not the shiny one shown on the link. | |||
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FWIW...QL gives 2790/3890/20", 2900/4211/24", ~110 fs/320 ftlb difference for a top load of RL-17 and 225 gr Accubond Basically the old 25-30 fs per inch rough estimate. Don't think the critters carry a Chrono with them to checkout what whacks them...use what works for you, it's all good. I use 225 gr bullet weight (whatever is on sale) in my 26" 338-06 at ~2800fs and it/they seem to get the job done with a minimum of fuss...no need for a brake. Luck | |||
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Yup, I have a Williams ghost ring aperture rear and sourdough post banded front on my 375 Whelan A.I. The front sight is still a bit fuzzy . I can usually shoot it well enough with my current perscription out to 150 or so. I can do as well with shallow V rear bead front express sights. But the scope is faster. I generally use iron sights in the summer on an express rifle for bear protection. Saves wear and tear on the optic . I've thot about getting a stainless Hawkeye and putting a banded front and arpeture rear on for summer work. Tho I have other rifles that are better sized for the summer role. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Ray; Thats a pretty rifle ! I honestly don't think a guy can go wrong with one of the 3 , Hawkeye, African or Guide Gun. . I want as much as I can get for stainless . And I like the shorter forearm of the G.G.. I wish Ruger would get the lead out and bring out the GunSight Scout rifle in Stainless steel in 6.5 Creedmoor. But Thats another story. They do have it in blued so I will probably end up with one. Non; thank you. Historically the 225s had a MV of 2780 fps from a 24" for factory ammo . I always found that to be a good load for what I wanted it to do. Mostly blasting/practice and often shooting Sitka Blacktails. But, I shot lots of 275s and 300s also. Nowadays I would probably work up a load with 225 gr TTSXBT . I Really like RL 17 in my 6.5 Creedmoor . That and of course H4350 . I haven't tried the new RL 16 yet and it may be a Really good medium burn rate rifle powder. If I can get or beat 2700 fps with a 225 , I'll be very happy. Glen. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Haven't tried RL-16 yet...probably won't see it for another couple years in my neck of the woods. Supposed to be slightly faster than RL-17 according to Alliant so may work better in the 60-70 gr cases but only testing will say. You shouldn't have any trouble hitting 2700 fs and slightly over in a 20" barrel...might need to throat it a bit to get the peak pressure point down a bit...lots of good new powders available that will do it, including 4451, HV100, 7977 and several oldies but goodies like 760, 780, H414, H4350 and 4831. Still waiting for my AR Creedmoor barrel...supposed to be here sometime this month...getting antsy as I have several gun related projects and a sidecar to install on my KLR 650...all waiting on the weather plus the sageratz are starting to come out. Luck | |||
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I have settled with the 225-grain 3-Shock tipped. Barnes just published this reloading data in "pdf" form: http://www.barnesbullets.com/f...014/11/338WinMag.pdf | |||
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I wanted the old type without the brake, but couldn't find one so broke down and bought a new one with the brake..Found out I really like it with the brake..I use the brake for sighting in and testing loads off the bench, and btw mine shoots to the same POI with or without the brake...Then I broke the golden rule at elk camp I told them I had a brake on my rifle would that be OK, the guides said "Yeah, why not, so do we!" Then I noticed that most of the old sourdoughs in Alaska have brakes on their guns. When did this all come about, where have I been, I hear folks condemning the brakes on the internet, but see a lot of guides, PHs and ranchers, etc. with brakes..even on TV..Guess they caught on while I wasn't listening. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Yes, a lot of hunters in here (Alaska) have muzzle brakes on their guns. I have one on another .338WM, but sometimes I remove the brake and install a thread protector when hunting. The latest .338 does not have a brake, and I had a nice and cushy decelerator recoil pad installed at the MacMillan shop. | |||
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Ray; I've had more 338s and up without muzzle brakes than with them. I don't need a brake on them to shoot them well. But it is easier with the brake. I know plenty of guys my age that are about as deaf as a post . From talking with them and getting to know them over the years, many of them haven't been around anywheres near the long term high decible noise level that I have. Unless it was loud music when they were younger. Perhaps its long term dehydration ? I don't know. I don't know why they can't hear worth a hoot and its not from shooting muzzle broke 458s without hearing protection . Or growing up running and spending their career running chainsaws like I did. Often without hearing protection . Or running screaming Jimmy diesels . ect. Ect. I deeply regret taking Art Alphin's advice to not put a muzzle brake on my 500 A-2. It was fine until I got widow makered while falling timber. After that just a few shots would give me quite a gun headache . Enough to make me stop shooting anything for days. Something's just get (in style) like complaining about other people's muzzle brakes . And then develop a doctrine of disparaging them . For me, I don't need to soak up anymore recoil than I have to. I like medium and large calibre rifles . So I run brakes on most of them. I don't have one on my 375 Whelan A.I. and won't put one on it anytime in the near future. I don't want the rifle any longer than it is and don't want to give up 50 fps. My upcoming 338 will have a brake on it . But if any one doesnt Thats cool too. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The brake sure helps at the range when developing loads for the rifle  The first moose I killed with my first .338 left me almost deaf on my left ear for a couple of weeks. I was on a cat trail, and the trees are the left were closer to me than the ones at the right. The moose was around 150 yards down the cat trail, and i shot the rifle 4 times off-hand, before the moose disappeared in thin air (because I forgot to keep my left eye open when looking through the scope). Anyway, that KDF muzzle brake really did the number on my hearing. When working on the moose my hunting friends had to yell at me because I could not hear what they were saying. | |||
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Ray ; thanks for the link . They have some good data for RL 17. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I've got my ears clapped many times by muzzle brakes and firearms without brakes on them. Granted they do direct lots of muzzle blast to the side which can bounce back and clap the ears good sometimes. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Anyone tried the Ruger Guide Gun in 338 Winchester?
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