For a combo Elk/mostly deer rifle is there any practical difference between these two calibers with 160gr handloads through 24"tubes?

You are looking about 200fps diff. I have a .280 & it's my backup elk/deer rifle. So realisticlly, you are going to give up about 50-75yds to the 7mag. Keep your shots under 300yds & it's a decent elk round. The .280 is a 7 1/4# dream to carry, another benefit, especially if you have one made so you can get it lighter. Recoil isn't even an issue.

Some people would say the 150-200FPS max difference is a practical difference. I've used a 280 for years and never saw a reason to have a 7mag. As long as you do your part the Elk and for sure the deer will never know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
For a combo Elk/mostly deer rifle is there any practical difference between these two calibers with 160gr handloads through 24"tubes?

If you handload for both of them, then I see no PRACTICAL difference between them as hunting rifles. Basically, the .280 will perform about as well as the 7 Mag., and do it with LESS powder!

As Fredj338 says, keep your shots undr 300 yards.... hell, that's good advice for anyone, regardless of what caliber is being used!!

You might want to try the 280 AI - intermediate between the 280 Rem and 7MM mag. The latter I believe is a bit overbore with the 280 AI being just about right. The 280 AI will work fine with your action, and Ackley considered the 280 AI one of his better efforts. For example, while staying within ~65,000 psi, I can get 3225 fps with a 150 gr. NBT with a 26" barrel (i.e., 66-67 grs. of Re25). That's clearly into 7MM mag country.

You can expect 3100 from 160s in a 24" 7RM. I don't believe the Regular 280 Rem will come close to that but, the 280 is certainly not a bad cart.

Good Luck!

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
...is there any practical difference between these two calibers...?

no

It took me 25 years to realize that my migration from 7 RM to 280 to 7x57 really makes sense!! I've killed a lot of animals with these guns and I think I might move to the 6.5x55 as my primary hardware pretty soon. They all work just fine with the right bullet in the right place. I think the answer may lie with a 7 lb Swede, a 22" barrel and a 4x Leupold.

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
I think the answer may lie with a 7 lb Swede, a 22" barrel and a 4x Leupold.

Take a look at the new Win. Featherweight in stainless with walnut stock. It's available in 6.5x55.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
For a combo Elk/mostly deer rifle is there any practical difference between these two calibers with 160gr handloads through 24"tubes?

Get the 280Rem. - the deer & elk will never know the difference.

I prefer the 7mm Rem. Mag. to the 280 Rem. In my experience, it's more inherently accurate, easier to work with, and supplies 200 fps. more velocity across the board if loaded to its potential. The Seven-Mag is a more versatile cartridge........

AD

If it's a factory rifle then the specifics of whats available and what you want matters more than the cartridge. Similar cartridges produce similar results.

Since I have been buying lightweight rifles in SS with compostite stocks my choice in a 7mm would be the 7mm WSM in a Kimber 8400 Montana. Such a rifle will weigh 6.3 lbs sans scope and have a Kevlar/carbon stock, SS, crf, pillars, adjustable trigger and M70 safety.



The modern WSM on the left weighs less than a M70 Featherweight yet packs more power. The old M70 Westerner on the right is about nine pounds.

If one has a lot of climbing to do the lighter rifle is one that I am glad I have available.

I think you should consider what weight bullet you will use most of the time and let that fact guide you in your decision. Certainly the 7mm Mag will handle heavier bullets better than the .280 Rem. Having said all that, I own a .280 Rem. that delivers 140 gr. Nosler BTs at 3171 fps from a 24" barrel, holds four rounds in the magazine and one up the spout and weighs less than the comparable 7mm Mag. Since you're primary target is deer with elk as an option, I would recommend the .280 Rem. With the proliferation of premium bullets, you would have a no problem with the smaller 7mm.

If weight is your concern think of this. My cdl in 7 mag with 26" barrel weighs 7 5/8's lbs while the Remy Mtn rifle with 22" barrel in .280 weighs 6 5/8's lbs. If you will be doing much elk hinting then the mag is the way to go, if mainly only deer then 280 will be fine. My choice of 7mag was both because of the distances involved out here and the ability to carry more energy to the target at range.

quote:

it's more inherently accurate

Allen,

You and I see eye to eye on many things, but 280 Rem and 300 Win Mags are two items we are probably never going to agree on.

I don't think the belt is helping the 7mm Mag in this regard, and I wouldn't take any bets on one cartridge over the other in the accuracy dept. I think individual rifles have a lot more impact on this than a advantage of one cartridge over the other.

My opinion is what are you planning on primarily hunting, elk or deer with this rifle? If your going to hunt deer more than elk get the 280 Rem in a 22-23" barrel. If Elk is going to be hunted more I would probably opt for the 7mm Mag.

Another factor is how long a barrel you want on your rifle, the mag is going to have a 26" tube, and probably shouldn't go much shorter than 24", it makes no sense put more powder in the case to lose velocity in the shorter barrel, kind of self defeating, and the velocity spread between the two gets less when the mag starts subtracting.

Both are good rounds, both will work for your purpose. I would also question what type of terrain you normally hunt. Notice MontMike post above mine, he is hunting Montana and it usually isn't as thick as here in the Idaho Panhandle, a 300 yard shot is a rare shot here, usually they are under 200 yds or a lot longer than that here, not much in between. For packing around in thick timber I would rather have the shorter barreled 280, but a few miles east in Montana the distance and the longer barrel will have an advantage.

Me personally I am having a 280 built right now, and I didn't even think about a 7 Mag, anything it can do I have a 30 Mag for, but if you don't have a 30 the 7 mag is a solid choice.

allen, I don't think the 7rm is more accurate than the .280, there are just more factory rounds available to play with. If you handload, the .280 gives up nothing to the 7rm.
Reloader, realistic vel. from a 24" 7rm w/ the 160gr bulelt is going to be closer to 3000fps. You can get 2800fps from any good 160gr .280 load. That is worth about 50-75 yards in the field, so unless you are wanting a 400yd elk rig, the .280 will work fine. Now if you go to the 175gr bullet, the 7rm is a clearer choice. I have a 7mm Dakota which give me about 150fps over the 7rm w/ 160-175gr bullets. I wanted it just to drive the heavier 160-175gr bullets faster. I think I've only shot 145gr GS once or twice just to see how fast they would fly, but I like the mags for heavier bullets, the .280 makes a great deer rig w/ 140-160gr pills.

Hello the campfire:
Once again in my humble and often disparraged opinion. the .280 IS A GREAT ROUND.I used to (and still do) love the 30-06. I love the .280 more (maybe because it is my newest old rifle) I pring great groups, recoil is good, and it has all the omph I need. Plus my only 30-06's are a 03a3 and M1. But I would buy again. My 7mag is an A-Bolt and it is OK but not the class of .280, or as I think of it 7mm Express (that makes it sound kinda snazzy don't it).
Judge Sharpe

I have two rifles in .280 Rem., and one rifle in 7MM Mag. I've killed elk with both, using the 160 grains Nosler Partition bullet and honestly, could not tell any quantifiable difference.

Using my favorite bullet, the 160 grains Nosler Partition, the load for the .280s is 54.0 grains of IMR4350, and for the 7 Mag. is 63.0 grains of IMR4831.

One of the .280s, my first, is a Remington 725 with 22" bbl. The other is a from-the-ground-up custom rifle built for me by Frank Pachmayr, with a 22" Apex bbl. Both shoot 1 1/2" groups at 200 (two hundred) yards.

The Rem. 700 7MM Mag. rifle chronos that load at 3,010 FPS.

On my good days, the Rem. 700 7mm Mag. groups 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 yards. (Or, as the old saying goes, "Close 'nuff for gubmint work.")

The 7 Mag. is a Remington 700 24" bbl. (1974 mfg), left to me by a deceased uncle.

I've used these three rifles on elk in Idaho, Wyom., and Colo., and just can't tell the difference in field practicality... other than the 7 Mag. recoils more, and the .280s, with the 22" barrels, seem a bit more handy out in the boonies.

Longest shot of any of these was about 350 yards with the Remington 725. Other than a bull elk I shot in Wyoming and had to track (poor shooting on my part), all were one shot kills.

Just my experiences... FWIW.

L.W.

I just finished up a project that is supposed to do the same thing your looking for, mostly deer but also back up a 300WM on elk hunting trips.
I looked at the 280 and the AI version, the 7mm WSM, and the 7mm RM. I wound up going with the 7mm RSAUM. Gives me a little better than 280 AI velocity without fireforming but is still not as "hot" as the 7mm WSM and 7mag.
I suppose its all just splitting hairs, I doubt any thing I ever shoot will know the difference.
Chris

I remember a few years ago while hunting in KY, 2 friends and I were set up on these rolling hills about 100 yards away from each other all looking down into the creek bottom about 150 yards further down the slopes. We were on slopes with sparse trees here and there but mostly tall weeds. At the creek, the hardwoods began and they went up an opposing hill.

I was shooting my ever so faithful 270. Ronnie borrowed my 30.06, and Dwayne was shooting his 7 Rem Mag. After about 3 and half hours into the morning, we decided we were in the wrong place and went over the other side of our hilltop to watch a whole different creek bottom and other patches of hardwoods but this time we were all together. We spotted a small 6, a huge doe, and a decent 8 right as we peeked the hill, (oh, for you western guys, we count all the points, makes them sound bigger, and yes, we still refer to a spike as a spike, even if he has 2 spikes). On the count of 3 we pulled the triggers. The doe and 8 dropped. The 6 still stood there. Ronnie forgot to release his safety. Once he figured it out, the buck fell to his shot just before he was going to run off.

The distance was about 160 yards. The deer were walking the fence row and we think the doe was coming in to estrus. Probably why the 6 just stood there.

I was using a 150 Ballistic Tip and put it in the 8's shoulder. Dwayne was using a 140 Ballistic Tip and made the doe kiss the ground (he is strictly a meat hunter), and Ronnie was shooting Federal factory Btips, 165 grainers.

So, here we have 3 dead deer, 3 different bullet weights, 3 calibers, and no, not one deer died quicker or fell to the ground any faster than the other. So the deer certainly didn't know the difference. It is my opinion that the results would be identical if the range was closer or even out to 300 yards.

the 7 mag will outclass the .280 hands down but only with 175 gr. bullets handloaded to max...in which case the 7 mag is quit a caliber...otherwise the .280 is just as good for all practical purposes...SAme could apply to the .308/30-06 cartridges, the 06 with heavy bullets outclasses the .308...Personally I would just as soon have a 7x57 or an 06...

Flip a coin. I use a 7 mag and my partner uses a 280 rem, the only true difference is mine is louder, recoils slightly more and weighs more. Sure I spit out bullets a few 100 faster and gain a bit in long range situations but for the average 0-300 yard hunter that really don't amount to a ton of real world difference. (If you handload that is, if buying OTC ammo the 7 mag is a better choice).

I have never seen a deer, elk or moose find a difference either. Pick the right fit (rifle), right bullet, right shot/spot and all that's left is pick up the fork!

I hunted with the 7mm RM for about a decade and it is a very capable whup-ass cartridge, but with that said, I now own 3 280's and consider them hell on wheels for deer sized game, even better than the 270, although one would be hard pressed to see any real world difference between the two.

For something more suitable for bigger game however, I would lean toward a larger caliber as opposed to heavy bullets from the 7mm mag.

Just my .02 cents.

We shoot both at our house. The elk shot with the 280 taste better. JMO, Dutch.

100 fps, +/- ...

which one do you want?

jeffe

I have been looking at this Kimber very seriously. How does your rig shoot? I agree with your choice - if you don't already own a 7mm this WSM may be the ideal platform for this caliber bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
If it's a factory rifle then the specifics of whats available and what you want matters more than the cartridge. Similar cartridges produce similar results.

Since I have been buying lightweight rifles in SS with compostite stocks my choice in a 7mm would be the 7mm WSM in a Kimber 8400 Montana. Such a rifle will weigh 6.3 lbs sans scope and have a Kevlar/carbon stock, SS, crf, pillars, adjustable trigger and M70 safety.



The modern WSM on the left weighs less than a M70 Featherweight yet packs more power. The old M70 Westerner on the right is about nine pounds.

If one has a lot of climbing to do the lighter rifle is one that I am glad I have available.

Imo the differences are pretty much the same as the 06 vs the 300 WM.

Just the way I see it

Mark D

make it your best day

If I had neither and was buying I would definitely get the magnum especially if Elk was being considered. If I already had either one I would would just load up and go hunting.

I have a 280 and a 7mmWSM, I like both of them but there is something about the 280......

This is the 30-06 versus 300 Win argument revisited. I have both and have killed deer and elk with both. (one elk in the case of the .280) If my hunts were principally deer with an occasional elk hunt, I'd go with the .280, if mostly elk, etc, I'd go with the 7mag.
While the .280 is an excellent cartridge, I think its getting squeezed to death by the 7Mag on one side and the 7-08 on the other.