And I still stick by my first and last paragraphs of my previous post.

Here's a clear demonstration of how the semi-point H-Mantle works. Impact was at 100 yards. MV was an uber accurate ( and civilized ) 2,340fps. This MV, accuracy and weight of projectile are what made the 7x57's reputation and for a romantic recidivist like myself, all I need.

http://youtu.be/fIPnl3IRS4I

It is a non-conclusive test using artificial medium, however it does demonstrate what PatagonHunter, Myself, Atkinson, ozhunter and Alberta Canuck have seen in the field and have been talking about.

If you can achieve high velocity then the plethora of mono metal designs have a proven record. It's a case of horses for courses.

From the video that Code4 posted I learn:

1. Three jacketed lead bullets impacting wetpack at 100 yards are going between 2100fps and 2200fps.
2. They all worked about the same way.
3. Testing on wetpack is not representative of impacting a game animal because softer and harder media than wetpack can be encountered.
4. It seems that the H Mantel expanded faster than the other two and seems like it is a softer bullet.

From my experience of the kudu I shot, I learned this:

1. I impacted on a broadside shot on a kudu in the speed range of 1900fps to 2000fps. Muzzle speed from my 7x57 was close enough to 2500fps.
2. The bullet broke the foreleg bone and broke up.
3. The two major pieces deflected and failed to hit anything vital enough to kill the animal. The two pieces were recovered and the wound track was analyzed.
4. Had the bullet penetrated in a straight line and, including a margin of error for the angle at which the animal presented, a heartshot or lower half double lungshot was certain.

So, from this experience, with similar incidents observed many times by clients, I concluded that:

1. Jacketed lead breaks apart a percentage of time.
2. When jacketed lead comes apart, the direction the fragments will take, becomes highly unpredictable.
3. This happens often enough to be a very real statistic and a problem that needs solving.

Such solutions now exist and there is no need for me to further use jacketed lead for hunting.

Gerard,

I did state it was a non-conclusive test. I have managed to kill everything I've shot with the H-Mantels, as have my hunting guests. They aren't the cheapest projectiles, but they are the most accurate in my 7x57.

Good luck selling your monometals. I have tried to buy some in the past, however the NZ agent (at the time) was less than efficient.

I am sorry to hear that, kindly PM me the detail so that I can investigate what happened. We take any shortcoming in our system seriously and would like to figure out what happened. We have always found Martin Bester to very good and I can assure you that your incident was not intentional.

Thx Gerard. PM sent. I look forward to giving some feral camels some mono-metal 'Camel Pills'

I shot a 28lb gobbler in the head on the fly with a 7x57R H-mantel. Killed him deader then dead.

So in my limited experience they seem to work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by 9,3x62moose:
Code4,

Thanks. Oh, Camel hunting, sounds interesting.
How is it? Far out in the wild and far far from any people?

I'm not Code4, but I was with him on that hunt.

Was it far from people? Yep, our campsite was 176km from the homestead...and we were still on the same property.

Before we wander off into an argument (discussion?) about which bullet is the best all-around hunting projectile, let's recall the original question...which was as to the action and usefulness of the RWS H-Mantle bullet.

The front end blows up after it has gone two or three inches into an animal with a moderately thick hide, such as American wapiti. On Wapiti, it has always completely penetrated elk for me and exited the other side of them. I do not know what they look like after they expand in an animal as I have never had one stay IN an animal where I could retrieve it and look at it. They were all DRT within 2 or 3 strides of where they were when struck, and all were moving at a fast walk or a full run when shot. For me, on elk, that is plenty good enough. For "Texas Heart Shots" on moose, I would not use them...but I have found that 200 grain .30 NP bullets will penetrate the full length of a moose out at 180 yards or less (the closest one I shot with NPs was at about 5 yards). And from my 7x57 even Hornady C&C 139 grain bullets will completely penetrate the chest cavity of a moose.

If that information is useful, fine. The H-Mantles may or may not work that way for you or someone else. But, as I have learned the hard way over the years, the only way to know for sure under your hunting conditions and on your game, is to try it yourself and see if it meets your needs or not. Then act accordingly as to future use of them in YOUR situations.

If you find they are not your cup of tea that's still fine. You will know not to buy any more, and you will still have some great "trading stock" to put to use in getting something else.

Just an aside on your 8x60.

Many were made with very deep grooves and a .318 bore, shooting .323 bullets.

(see Mauser: Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles by Jon Speed)

That might be a caution if choosing a a partition or monometal bullet.

The variation on 8mm bores is quite a problem and it is a matter of one size does not fit all. One must use, as pointed out by whitetailrun, the correct diameter bullet for the respective 8mm.

There are three distinct different diameters although all are designated 8mm. Sometimes the distinction is made between the 8x57J and the 8x57JS and others, by referring to a 7.9mm but even that is rare.

http://gsgroup.co.za/cip.html

Be careful, an 8mm Rem and anything with a J or I or S behind the name, are different bore/groove/twist sizes and should use a dedicated size bullet for the best results.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/318157HV123.html
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/323160HV102.html
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/323170HV188.html
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/323180HV073.html