Hello all.
More questions from me.

Just got a old Brno M21 in the house, 8*60S is the caliber with a Pecar Berlin scope.
Nice gun, nice wood and the scope is clean.

With the rifle I got around 300 rounds of RWS H-mantel rounds.
I have never tried that bullet, so maybe some here have used it and can tell me if it is a good, solid, hold together, or...a bad one?

Had in mind using the gun with the ammunition on Red deer.

THank you all for looking.

Moose, the H-Mantel is the German version of ourt Nosler Partition, with a soft nose for expansion, but a strong core that will continue to penetrate if or when the nose deforms or breaks up from high velocity or striking bone. You'll do great with them. I used them exclusively in my 9.3x64 Brenneke.

I have cut open some RWS H Mantel bullets, and was not too impressed with the construction.

The jackets were very thin.

I agree, red deer and wild boar should work fine with H Mantel.

Oh, good information.
Thank you.
Saeed, where the jacket thinner than the Nosler bullets?

If I remember correctly, the RWS H-mantel bullet preceded the Nosler Partition. The bullet has been used around the world for decades.

It doesn't take a very thick jacket as the partition between the two portions to keep the rear portion from expanding, thus providing penetration that is deeper than it otherwise would be. The H-mantel ammunition should be adequate for any target animal that is appropriate for the 8x60.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
If I remember correctly, the RWS H-mantel bullet preceded the Nosler Partition. The bullet has been used around the world for decades.

It doesn't take a very thick jacket as the partition between the two portions to keep the rear portion from expanding, thus providing penetration that is deeper than it otherwise would be. The H-mantel ammunition should be adequate for any target animal that is appropriate for the 8x60.

X 2 roger

Thanks

Then the H mantel will be used these fall.
Might even give them a test on moose. Interesting to test the caliber to.

quote:

Originally posted by 9,3x62moose:
Oh, good information.
Thank you.
Saeed, where the jacket thinner than the Nosler bullets?

Yes, in fact, what surprised me was how thin they were.

Oh...Hmm..Good information.
Thank you.

The H-Mantel isn´t as strong, as the Partition. The bullet is made since the 1930´s by RWS, with different point design.
It´s a good bullet, with high energie transfer. But made for european game, like roe buck, wild boar or red deer. Many hunters prefer it for the last two games.

Martin

Thank you Martin.

It has been around for some years...So, guess it is not that bad
Oh, come red deer session, come opening day...

Good luck with your 8x60S! I had a Belgian one with its claw mounted "Tell" 'scope and sold it. Wish I hadn't!

But it does mean that I have 100x new factory Prvi-Partisan cases in that calibre that I want to be rid of.

Happy to post, where allowed by law, in Europe.

Any offers?

I have found the H-Mantel in 9.3 worked well on medium game up to the size of Zebra.
The soft jacket of the top is designed to shrapnel within the body thus maximum dammage then with the rear third of the bullet solid enough to continue on through with an exit wound.

I used the 196 grn I think in an 8x68 on african game up to and including eland. I thought they were a bit soft, but an 8x68 is pushing them faster then an 8x60 too. The only real problem was one kudu hit on the shoulder joint, the bullet broke up and traveled down the legbone. It was recovered, but after a long chase. On broadside shots go for heart/lung shots. Kudu,heartbeast and gemsbok shot through the lungs was like throwing a bucket of blood on the grass and brush. Nothing goes far with that bloodloss.

Here is a sample of a sectioned 7mm H-Mantle bullet. This is the copper capped version, the bullet Pondoro Taylor had seen and was wary of as he never found any copper pointed bullet performed reliably on African game. He had not seen another style but imagined a plain lead point H-Mantle would make a good reliable bullet. As it was the image used in his book AR&C was of a standard lead pointed H-Mantle. I have had some of these lead points and given them away but did see one or two used in Germany on Roe deer. Seemed fine but then these deer are pretty lightly constructed.

7mm H-Mantle RWS bullet

Hello,

I have used the H-Mantel steel jacketed in my Mauser 7x57 since 1980. Both factory ammunition and my own reloads. The H-Mantel I have are the last version with steel jackets, without the hair cutter and more round nosed than the one eagle27 shows. I have two boxes of ten rounds each, the old RWS, loaded with this old pointed cooper point H-Mantel but I will keep them and will not use.
I used this bullets with my 7x57 (and in a Mannlicher-Schoenauer GK 7x64 I had for a few years)exclusively to hunt Red Deer and Wild Boar around my place in Patagonia.
In my experience, at the velocities of these 7 mm (2500 f/s the factory 7x57 and 2650 f/s my reloads, and 2750 f/s with the 7x64), the H-Mantel has been THE BEST BULLET for big Red Deer/Wild Boar, period. I could NEVER recovered one in the death animals...! ALLWAYS exited leaving a small hole, but inside the damage was ALLWAYS impressive!!!! And NEVER an animal with a well placed shot move more than 50 meters. Usually dead in the spot!
I have two friends who used the H-Mantel in a .300 Win Mag on big Wild Boars and both are very pleased also. They recovered some bullets in W.Boars hunted at night from stands. 50/70 meters shots.
Looking at them, I tend to think the H-Mantel works better at slighlty lower velocity or at longer distances than the ones at close range with the .300 Mags.

Regards

PH

Thank you all for the replys.
The more I learn, the better the H mantel looks
And, a Kudu is a lot larger than the red deers I hunt.

Have a good evening all

I've been reading Finn Aagaard lately, having picked up "Finn Aagaard: Selected Works" recently at the gunstore (90% off - Win for me!) and he talks a lot about the H-Mantel. I guess they were quite popular in Africa during Finn's youth. One trait that he mentions very often was the tendency of the bullet to fragment quickly with the rear core holding together and penetrating deeply. To that end I deduct that they perform like a Nosler Partition, though with a more frangible nose section. Essentially the love shild of the Ballistic Tip and Partition. Despite that behavior, I don't recall Finn saying anything bad about them. That guy saw a lot of things shot and was incredibly technically sound so if it was good enough for him then it's good enough for me.

Hi B U M,

I agree about the H-Mantel has a more frangible front part than the Partition. I also use in my 7x57 NP 160 and, specially, 175 grs for Red Deer. In this weight I have used more the old semi spitzer Partition than the new spitzer ones. Both are great bullets, even at relatively long ranges, 250 meters or so, starting at 2650 f/s. The behavior is very, very, similar to the H-Mantel. I NEVER could find and recover a single NP 175 grs from ANY R. Deer or Wild Boar. And, also, the exit hole is rather small but inside the NP always do a lot of damage. The H-Mantel has, perhaps, a more "explosive" efect leaving many small pieces of jacket in the wounds, but ALWAYS exiting!

PH

Overhere the H-mantel is known to make bloody holes. Not the best bullet.
If I wanted to mess up a Baboon with a bellyshot a hard loaded 8x68S with H-Mantel would do the trick.

In MY experience, having used the H-Mantel in medium velocity calibers, I conclude this bullet is one of the best if not THE best one!! The only criticism I found is the price and limited availability. Anyway in a 8x60, the cartridge "9,3x62moose" are asking for, plus the 8x57, 6,5s, 7x57, 7x64, 308 Win, .30-06 and 9,3x62 / 74, with their medium velocities, I am convinced the H-M is an excelent all around bullet. Ah! THE perfect Big Deer bullet!

Regards

PH

PatagonHunter,

Thank you for the reply.

Good luck to yo, 9,3x62!!! You certainly have a treasure with hese 300 H-Mantel 8x60 rounds...!!! By the way, one of the things I learned about RWS factory cartidges is the consistency of the ballistics, throught the time, of the different lots of the same specifications. Most of my 7x57 RWS factory H-Mantel are from late 70´s. These lovely 10 rounds green boxes. Just a detail about the quality of these rounds: I measured the runout of the lots I have and ALL the individual cartridges shows not more than 0,002" deviation...! Most 0,001" or less. I cannot reproduce this using the best equipment and care ful reloading....Amazing....

Ah, and the ballistics in my new-barrel (Suiss SIG military replacement barrel for the 1912 Chilean Mauser) Mauser 7x57 are true to the specification: 2550 Muzzle velocity!

The Germans, the Germans

Can not wait to I take the rifle with me in the woods.

Eagle27


Thank you a picture is worth a thousand words.

Cal30

It is designed to blow the front end off sending shards of metal throuhout the body, and the portion behind the H penetrates like the dickens...

I have never used them as they are pretty prohibitive in the USA due to import taxes. but everyone I know and all I have read about them indicates they are top notch. Look much like Hornady used them for a guide!

Thank you for good information.

I have used them on a fair number of Wapiti (North American elk) and they perform just great on them. The front portion expands at just the right speed to virtually explode at about two to three inches inside the animal, and the rear portion goes clear on through the animal and exits. So far they have always exited on all of the elk I have shot with them.

I use the heaviest ones I can find (10.5 or 11 grams) from a 7x65R and that was my "go-to" bullet and cartridge for the last several years I hunted elk. I like them even better for elk than the Nosler Partitions which are my favorites for North American moose.

Thanks Alberta Canuck,

Sounds good, the Elk is a big animal.

I do concur with Saeed in that the jackets look thin on a sectioned H mantle bullet although as can be seen in the photo in my earlier post the base does have a thicker jacket and the semi partition to lock the lower portion of the core and jacket together.

Be mindful too that the jackets are steel so should be a stiffer construction than the equivalent thickness in a copper jacket.

Also helpful to note that the photo in this thread is of an early H Mantle. I believe that the H is formed by means other than a fold in the jacket nowadays. The H Mantle has evolved over many years with a series of changes. The original still predates the Nosler Partition by many years.

The H-Mantle is plenty tough enough for large game. Here is a mature male camel taken by forum member Boghossian last year with my 7x57 and 173 grain H-mantle. This is the semi-point that PatagonHunter described.

I've been told they are very similar to Moose to put down.



The front does sheer off quite early leaving a perfectly cylindrical, flat ended portion weighing approx. 150 grains. These track very straight through an animal supporting the recent posts here about flat nosed solids tracking straight.

Code4,

Thanks. Oh, Camel hunting, sounds interesting.
How is it? Far out in the wild and far far from any people?

Dear all

what I heard from hunting buddies in Germany, the H-Mantel has disadvantages at high speed on light animals. Furthermore, it is said to be vulnerable to hitting grass etc. damage potential is high.

In Namibia, it seems to be very popular.

best regards

Michael

The RWS H Mantel is directly the reason why I turned to monometal bullets in 1992. One of these bullets broke on the foreleg of a kudu and none of the fragments were big enough to kill the animal. It was a perfect broadside shot at 300m with my 7x57, using 173gr bullets. It took several hours to follow up and kill the kudu. Since using monos, I have had no failures or follow ups.

quote:

Originally posted by McStern:
Dear all

what I heard from hunting buddies in Germany, the H-Mantel has disadvantages at high speed on light animals. Furthermore, it is said to be vulnerable to hitting grass etc. damage potential is high.

In Namibia, it seems to be very popular.

best regards

Michael

As with all these questions, the answers are opinions, not truths carved in stone by God. And bullet performance opinions vary with the varying experiences encountered by their shooters.

And, as with all internet "facts", much of the knowledge of things is not based on even that much. Much of it is based on "They say", " I heard", "Or "A friend who used one in eastern Turkistan says he lost a record book Ibex because..."


Anyway, I have no doubt that driven at too high impact speeds H-Mantle bullets will not always perform as we would hope.

However, they are still my choice on elk-size game. But then the 7x65R I use them in is not a particularly high velocity round, especially not with 11 gram bullets. I use them mainly in RWS factory loaded 7x65R rounds, or in handloads loaded to about the same velocity. And as they go completely through elk, I don't need to load them to any higher velocities.

My suggestion is that your try them in your rifle and your hunting environment. If they work out for you, that's great. If they don't, try something else until you find something that suits your skill, the game, your hunting conditions, and wallet.

Like I said, I have never used the H mantels but read good things about them and been told they were good bullets BUT I would put my faith in Gerard as his GS Customs bullets are the very cream of the crop bullets..I have used them extensively on about everything from Duiker up to and including Buffalo and Hippo and with 110% satisfaction..and his flat nose solids are the best I have used. GS Customs, North Fork, Woodleighs and Noslers, all great bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by McStern:
Dear all

what I heard from hunting buddies in Germany, the H-Mantel has disadvantages at high speed on light animals. Furthermore, it is said to be vulnerable to hitting grass etc. damage potential is high.

In Namibia, it seems to be very popular.

best regards

Michael

As with all these questions, the answers are opinions, not truths carved in stone by God. And bullet performance opinions vary with the varying experiences encountered by their shooters.

And, as with all internet "facts", much of the knowledge of things is not based on even that much. Much of it is based on "They say", " I heard", "Or "A friend who used one in eastern Turkistan says he lost a record book Ibex because..."


Anyway, I have no doubt that driven at too high impact speeds H-Mantle bullets will not always perform as we would hope.

However, they are still my choice on elk-size game. But then the 7x65R I use them in is not a particularly high velocity round, especially not with 11 gram bullets. I use them mainly in RWS factory loaded 7x65R rounds, or in handloads loaded to about the same velocity. And as they go completely through elk, I don't need to load them to any higher velocities.

My suggestion is that your try them in your rifle and your hunting environment. If they work out for you, that's great. If they don't, try something else until you find something that suits your skill, the game, your hunting conditions, and wallet.

Actually, listening to other hunters opinions might stop you having some nasty occurrence while hunting.

As I have mentioned, we have cut open practically all bullets we could get, just to see how they are constructed.

For my own hunting, there is a definite cut off choice of bullets.

First choice is a copper bullet with a hollow point. It does not matter who makes it. Barnes, GS, Northfork or our own Walterhogs.

They have all the qualities. Good penetration, weight retention and expansion.

Next in line are those with a solid copper shank, like the Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and Jensens.

Next are the partition like Noslers.

Of course, if one only has normal soft points or hollow points, that should not stop him using them, but one has to be careful of shot.

I actually used the Sierra Match King bullets in our 30/404, 180 grains.

Velocity was over 3400 fps and they killed everything I shot with them.

They had explosive expansion.

On two occasions, one on zebra, hit in the shoulder. He dropped stone dead. But the bullet did not penetrate into his chest cavity. It blew a almost a foot wide crater on his shoulder.