The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 35 Whelen vs 9.3 x 62Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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One of Us |
OK - this will start a debate. I've read it before. People say pick the 9.3x62 over the 35 Whelen. However, after building and doing my own loads for each, 35 Whelen hands down. Data Dump: Rifles: 35 Whelen - 24" Douglas barrel, 1:12 twist, Enfield 1917 9.3x62 - 24.5" Factory barrel, Husky Mauser 98, twist ? Powders: 35 Whelen - 203B and Varget 9.3x62 - 203B, Varget, IMR-4064, RL-16, RL-17 Bullets: 35 Whelen - 225 gr TSX, 250 gr Northfork, 275 gr Woodleigh 9.3 x 62 - 286 gr Partition, TSX, Aframe, Woodleigh PP, Woodleigh RN, Northfork Results: 9.3x62 ------- The 9.3 barrel is an original factory barrel. Had it scoped by my gunsmith. Everything sharp, could still see the forging marks. I didn't check the twist. It was originally a 9.3x57, had it rechambered. Only the Woodleigh RNSN with 58 & 59 gr of Varget produced acceptable velocities and grouping. Sub-MOA at 2,370 - 2,430 fps at 3.23" (I don't load crazy long). The Partitions and Woodleigh PP had good groups, but 2,320 fps or so of velocity at compressed loads. Lots of recoil (light stock). 5 down 35 Whelen --------- 203B and Varget both worked great. Every bullet shot great. 225 gr TSX at 3.320": 56gr - 57gr Varget, 2,580 - 2,620 fps; 1" or less, 56gr was clover leaf. 58 gr of 203B was 2,640 fps 1" 250 gr Northfork: 3.300", 57 gr Varget, 2,575 fps, 1" group, same POI as 225 gr 57 gr Varget 275 gr Woodleigh: Multiple Varget loads and COLs, given this, the 55 gr Varget load at 2,500 fps is hard to beat. Recoil less, but heavy stock (lighter barrel). 6 down "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | ||
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I built the 9.3x62 for me, the 35 Whelen for my daughter as her medium bore. I want to build myself a light weight (7 lb) 35 Whelen now, either on a Remington 700 or Model 70, in stainless with a synthetic stock. Something a bit smaller than my Mauser M03 in 375 H&H. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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one of us |
I'd say you have a mighty small sample size there. I have no less than a half dozen 9,3x62's and not a one is picky about reloads. I've built easily another couple of dozen including a couple of Husqvarna 9,3x57 rechambers. None of them were fussy about accuracy. A healthy dose of RL15 and any good 285/286 bullets has produced groups on average of 1" or less. I've built far fewer 35 Whelens but on the whole, but there too I find it to be easy to get good accuracy from the cartridge. My first Whelen was built using a take off barrel from a rifle a customer sent me because it "wasn't accurate". I rebarreled it as he asked, it shot to his liking, and he wanted nothing to do with the old barrel. I screwed it onto a Columbian 98 I had and was quite impressed with its performance.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I'm certain the barrel on the Husky made a difference, but only on accuracy. I was able to get 5 rounds into a quarter size hole with the 9.3 using 59 gr Varget and 286 gr Woodleigh RNSN. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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One of Us |
Right in my alley, as I have and build lots of 9.3x62s, and 350 Rem Mags. Just finished one last week. Same ballistics as Whelen. I use long actions only. Which is better?; it depends on one factor, and one only; what are you shooting at? I find the 9.3s always superbly accurate, all with the Douglas 1930 Oberndorf contour that is all I use. But, the 35s are quite accurate too, with the same barrel contour. Now, the real difference; availability of a wider array of bullet weights, goes to the 35, obviously. Anything from straight deer 180 and 200 grain lead and coppers, to solid copper 300 grains and everything in between. The 9.3 has a somewhat limited scope of bullets for it, but for it's purpose, probably need only the 286s. Recoil? Do the math; you can't alter physics and both of these medium bores have the slow recoil velocity that makes them easy to shoot. Not sure what the question is, but this is the answer. | |||
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As far as real life field conditions go, I've shot lots of head of African PG, from Impala to Eland with both. Lots. Each worked as well as the other, without distinction, regardless of bullet weight / type / or range-to-target. Absolutely no distinction between the two under field conditions. 114-R10David | |||
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Does anyone believe that any critter shot by either could tell the difference? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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There is a difference in penetration depth between a 180 grain 35, and a a 286 9.3. You still have to match the bullets to the game. Just like any other set of calibers. | |||
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A lot depends on the rifle and bullet weight. In my experience with factory rifles, if you want to shoot larger than 250 grn bullets, get the 9.3. If you want to shoot 250 grn and below, get the whelen. | |||
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Moderator |
there's no real difference in these .473 nominal cases .. the 9,3x64, however, is another beast opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Austin Hunter Not sure if we have corresponded before re loads etc for the 9.3X62. My apologies for my poor memory if we have corresponded. With respect, your 9.3X62 loads are far lower pressure than your Whelan. Someone with the right software should be able to prove that. Comparison with similar action & weight rifle would be the way to go. The old Husky 9.3X57 factory stocks were lethal with thin comb and drop. I cringe at the thought even after 20 years!  I have gone up to 59gr Varget and 286 gr bullets with low pressure - almost no case expansion - no case trimming after 5 or 6 reloads. I got around 2430 - just checked my records. Never bothered to try for 2500 fps which should be achievable. 250 gr TSX and 250 gr Accubond in 9.3 cal would be great to compare as well. We do not get Ramshot powders here in NZ. I understand that is the powder for the 9.3X62 and modern pressure loads. I am happy with Varget / ADI AR2208 "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I just couldn't fit anymore powder in the case seating at the cannelures; The RNSN with most of the bullet weight forward was compressed at 3.23" and 59 gr Varget. That did get me 2,420 - close to your 2430. Net, I'm happy with both rifles, but if someone asked me what they should buy (assuming they are in the US) I'd recommend the Whelen. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I'm building both, simplest solution. 35 will be on a Mod 70 rebored 270 that's sitting in a MPI 9.3 will be on a Husky 640 sitting in walnut. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Its not hard to get 2500 FPS with a 286 gr. bullet in the 9.3x62 with RL-15, RL-17 and even H414, I shoot mine at 2420 FPS as that's the sweet spot..I use Lothar Walthar barrels, mostly 26" but some 24" barrels, my present 9.3x62 is 24" and its a fast barrel.. I shot buffalo with the 300 gr. Swift at 2390 FPS and with the 320 gr. Woodleigh at 2301 FPS. My elk load is a 250 gr. bullet at 2633 FPS, shoots as flat as a 180 gr. 30-06 and kills somewhat better IMO.. The 9.3x62 with handloads in a modern Mauser will compete with the 375 H&H. Ive shot the 35 Whelen both std. and IMP along with the 338-06 and the 9.3x62 out performs the 35s hands down on range and killing effect IMO. That's why I went to the 9.3x62, as I found to better it for NA game I had to go to the .338 Win., In a 35 caliber I would go to the 358 Norma to best the 9.3x62...Just my two bits based on using these guns on animals and some testing at the range. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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See rule number 2 below Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Ray, not starting a fight here, I hope -- do you agree that: 1: the 9,3x64 is capable of higher vel with the same bullet than a 9,3x62 2: that one CAN make 9,3x64 cases from 375 HH cases? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Voodoo loading again ! I can make my 50cc bike outrun your 250 ! A 9.3x62 can catch a 375 H&H ? my 338-06 is going to eat your 338 win my 300 win mag will outrun your 300 weatherby and yes even a 300 ultra mag ! So by that analogy a 35 whelen should be able to catch a 9.3 x 62 and a 30-06 can then catch a 35 Whelen and a 308 can catch and 30-06 and a 30-30 will outshoot a 308.......... WTF why then bother with larger charges ? Why go full load on anything when a lesser load in the same will actually do better ? Hell no not in a million years ! If a grain of powder contains X BTU's of energy then 10 grains contain 10 times X BTU's and 15 grains 15 times X BTU's And if there is a ratio of 1 to 4 gain in percentage fps per percentage of gain in charge load then there is no way a lesser load is going to catch a larger load for the same bullet / caliber ! | |||
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This is like asking which of your children is your favorite.  I say, I love them both.  | |||
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358 Norma is up next. Lilja lost my order and now have to get back in the queue. Rebarreling a Sako L61R with a Sako factory contour. Haven't decided if I'm going to replicate factory length of 24.4 or go 26. Have a gloss VX-2 3-9x40 NIB to give it a retro look. Original stock in great condition. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I have a 358 Norma in a 22” and it’s an absolutely fantastic cartridge if you reload, does great in a 22”. Another for a short 20-22” is the 350 Rem Mag. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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Of ALL the posts on this thread I must agree with ALF! If you want the performance of a .375, get a .375.... The comparing of a 35 Whelen to a 9.3x62 is pointless, one is in no way better than the other they both have a niche. Compare the 270 WCF to the .280REM pointless Compare the 280 REM to the 30/06 pointless All cartridges that are close in size (dia) and capacity have overlapping abilities. | |||
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Pointless? Seriously Dave, then what would we have to argue about? Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Haha I know what was I thinking?! Actually my favorite argument I've seen on the internet is comparing the 6.5 Creedmore to the 6.5 Swede or the .260 Rem. Somehow there is a difference when you fire the same bullet at the same velocity from the Creedmore case, I guess I'm not smart enough to understand that math. | |||
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Lol, yeah, I love that too. What I like best is people working so hard to convince everyone that their personal favorite is THE best and there is no reason for any other cartridge to exist. My personal favorite is the 6.5x55 but that in large part stems from the fact that my preferred firearm is the Mauser 98. If I favored the Rem 700 or other short action, then the Creedmore might be my favorite. I haven't jumped on the Creedmore bandwagon, primarily because while I have 6.5x55, .260 rem, 6.5x57, 6.5x65 and 6.5 Grendel reamers, I don't have a Creedmore reamer. I'm just happy that the 6.5's have gained in popularity, perhaps in large part due to the Creedmore. Because even though I don't shoot it, it has resulted in a larger component (bullet)selection for me. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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The 9.3 x 62 has ~10% larger case volume so by definition it is BIGGER AND WILL KICK THE 35 WHELENS AZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...in reality what it is has already been beat to death  HOW MANY TIMES!!!!!!. All it takes is some $%^&*( who knows how to stir up the troops to ask "that" question to get the dust flying and EVERYONE just HAS to respond.AS how many have said...in the field there are those "special" animals that can tell the difference in a few grains difference in bullet weight, a few fs in velocity and a few thou in bullet dia and can dodge all that and hide before you can see them and shoot...all the rest end up on the wall and on the dinner table.   Every time I go out ratting with my 9.3 x 62 those "special sagerats" stay outta sight and all the others end up coyote bait...come to think of it those "special 'yotes" never show up either...and I must have a herd of "special deer" living behind me on the hill because when I start waving that x62 around none of them come down to crop my yard. Hummmmmmmm   LUCK  | |||
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Will either the standard 30-06 bolt face (.473), or the standard magnum bolt face (.532) work with the 8x68s .511 rim diameter? If not, what action will work? | |||
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A standard boltface can easily be opened up, at least in a Mauser. I've seen 700's in 8x68 so they too can be modified. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Jeffe and Alf, You guys just don't listen!! I know the 9.3x64 and the 375 are more everything than the 9.3x62. I have said many times that I can push my 9.3x62 to 2500 FPS with a 286 bullet, and that's the same velocity as I push my 375 H&H with a 300 gr. bullet, as most PHs do btw....However I know that you can push a 375 H&H to near 2650 or better with some max loads..I happened to shoot them both at the same velocity therefore the .375 still has a 14 gr. advantage. Much the same with the 9.3x64, I know it has a velocity advantage but not more than 100 to 150 fps at most depending on the load, I don't see that as all that much, nor worth the excess recoil of the 9.3x64. and Ive shot both the 64 and the 375 a good deal.. I thank I prefer the 9.3x62 based on using it on the same game as the other two, and it kills as well as either the 64 or 375 IMO.. But technically you guys are either correct or scardey cats at the loading bench!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Can anyone comment on bullet construction for 35 cal & 9.3 cal? For example the 6.5 cal 160 gr RN bullets have a great reputation for retaining weight and penetrating deep in large animals like moose & polar bear. My understanding is that the advantage of the 9.3X 62 over the 35 Whelan is more to do with great cup & core bullets than the marginal velocity / energy. The 35 cal is very much an American thing today. The original British 350 Rigby bullets that Taylor raved about are no longer available unless you choose to go for Woodleigs. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Hunting in europe, 9,3x62, more common in europe. Hunting in north america 35 whelen, more common in US. Both are equal, perhapes 9,3x62 can handle a couple of grains heavier bullets. But that make no differens at al. Each choise of cartidge is easier to find in the store if you run out of ammo and you cant handload depending where you live, US or Europe. | |||
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I think the best explanation of the 9.3x62 comes from Pierre van der Walt in African Dangerous Game Cartridges, rather than post a 10 page summary I suggest all read that book, its filled with outstanding fact and foresight..The two calibers are not equal, simple as that, comments by those who have not wrung the two out IMO are common in the USA. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Well, the 35 whelen is nothing more or less then the .350 Rigby of old. It too had a great reputation in Africa. | |||
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i prefer what John Taylor summed up about it ... "There isn't really a great deal to say about it. Everybody found it so generally satisfactory that there wasn't anything to start a discussion." my friend Don Heath wrote also a lot on it ... | |||
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Im mid project right now, building a .35 whelen for my wife to use as her mid-bore.. The decision for me was much more about parts availability and cost than it was overall performance.. I had a large ring mauser action on hand that I needed to do something with.. and midwayusa sells short chambered .35 whelen barrels for large ring mausers that are known to perform pretty well (green mountain) for less than $100 that they can have on your doorstep in just a couple of days.. Once complete this will be her primary plains game rifle (assuming I did my job right and it shoots reasonably straight and is reliable).. she wanted something with a little more ooomph than her .308 for her next safari), and she will likely use it for anything larger than elk that she hunts in NA (we've talked about bison, nilgai, etc. as possibilities in 2018).. Honestly, if I could have sourced a 9.3x62 barrel quickly and affordably, I probably would have gone that route if for no other reason the nostalgia involved.. That said, I am perfectly happy with what the .35 whelen can do and know its a fine match for the distances she typically shoots, and the animals she intends on chasing with it.. | |||
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Makes sense in that context to be sure. Those barrels tend to be a tad on the heavy side, which could actually be a benefit in this case as a recoil moderator. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I disagree Entirely different type of bullets used. One can of course hand load the Whelan to OLD 350 Rigby levels. But apples with Apples - the Rigby cartridge has far more capacity & in a modern rifle with modern powders, it comes closer to a 358 Norma Magnum. Below photo shows the 35 Whelan in the middle with the 350 Rigby Mag next to it and the 9.3X62 on the left. The one on the right is the 350 Rem Mag & the far right is the 376 Steyr, which is not a 9.3 cal. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Yfm_.../S220/cartridges.jpg
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Glad I read this thread. Been wanting a 35 Whelen for awhile now, thinking about sending one of my 06s off to be re-bored to 35. Just put a Green Mountain barrel on order at Midway, (back-ordered). Picked up a nice German 98 action all matching #s at a gunshow a few months back. Already have the reamer, HS gauges, and drilling fixture for the 98, dies and bullet moulds. Now I don't have to make that painful decision, which rifle to sacrifice. | |||
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I was originally going to do rebore, but decided on a new Douglas 24" #2 barrel. Magnaported to keep barrel jump down. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I do not believe that there is really much of a difference in lethality between a 0.358" bullet and at 0.366" bullet. The weight advantage will always be to the 0.366 caliber. Based on discussions with a gun club member who has hunted Moose, Elk, in the US, he is of the opinion that you really don't need any bullets heavier than a 225 in the 35 Whelen. He gave me a partial box of 275 grain Barnes bullets, I assume they kicked too much. If you want bullets heavier than 250 grains in the 25 Whelen you can use 275 Woodleigh, https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...cted-point-box-of-50 or 275 A Square, https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...ose-solid-box-of-50, the Barnes bullets are no longer being made. But, I have no desire to shoot anything heavier than 250 grain, as that bullet kicks hard enough at 2500 fps. Elmer Keith's writings more or less sold me on the 35 Whelen, but also the fact I can neck size up 30-06 cases, which because I have shot NRA Highpower for decades now, I have 5 gallon buckets of the stuff. I just lubed the inside case necks, ran them through the 35 Whelen sizing die, and then beveled the case mouth so bullets would not catch on the case neck when seating. I do recommend annealing expanded cases, I recently just started doing that as too many expanded 30-06 cases where case neck cracking. Case loss due to case neck cracking has greatly reduced on the annealed cases.  On first firing, I aggressively lubricate the case, so on firing, the case slides to the bolt face, the shoulders fold out, and I end up with a perfect, stress free case. Fireforming lubricated cases is a practice that World Champion Benchrest champions conduct, in that game, having a perfect, stress free case is critical to accuracy. I do it because I don't want sidewall stretch on my cases. I don't have to seat the bullet long, I don't use fillers and reduced loads, my loads are full power and they are accurate. I have started greasing the bullets because I believe, bullet fouling is reduced. I really can't prove any barrel life increases, but I can say, after using greased bullets, my barrels clean up quick and my cases are ready for the sizing die.   At least in the US, if you don't make your own rifle, which used to be the fashion   You can buy factory 35 Whelen's. Ruger makes them, Remington makes them, I hope there will be more of them in the future as this is really an excellent round.    | |||
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The F34 barrel profile was another one of the selling points.. She wont be climbing mountains with this rifle or trying to walk down an elephant.. so I thought a little extra heft would be a good thing.. especially since she will be stepping up from shooting 165gr .308's.. She's not really recoil sensitive.. but she also doesnt have a whole lot of experience with thumpers yet either.. Recoil moderation was why I went with a pretty heavy laminate stock for the rifle as well.. Its going to end up being about a 9.5lb rifle once the optic is mounted.. pretty heavy for a .35 whelen.. but still manageable for the type of hunting it will be used for.. and should be reasonably mild off the sticks for a 135lb lady.. | |||
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