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| one of us |
I've heard all the bad news about Remington quality. Soooo, when I decided I needed some new toys, I looked at some guns at the local gun emporium. I started with a new deer rifle. I looked at Howas (too heavy), Browning (too fancy, and shiny), Tikka (nice, but too heavy) and Winchester(they only had 300 mags) and a Remington mountain rifle in .270. The Remington had near perfect quality. Fit and finish were flawless. I bought the Remington. When I got it home I found out that it has the tightest chamber I've ever seen on a factory rifle. New brass will not chamber without first full length sizing it. Fired brass is not sized much at all by the full length sizer, so it works the brass minimally. I've only shot 20 rounds thru it to break in the barrel and get the scope on paper, but initial groups looke promising, (in the under 1.5" range with new brass). I'm not a fan of the J lock, but it isn't any bother, I just don't use it. I was so impressed with the quality of this rifle that I decided to look for a new 22/250 varmint rifle. The Tikka was sitting in the stock quite crooked. Probably nothing that would hurt accuracy, but not confidence inspiring. No Winchester availabe locally. Howa looked nice, but the trigger is not as adjustable as some others (not bad though). The Remington again was absolutely flawless. I've never had a rifle with the fit and finish of this gun, even better than the Mountain rifle. When I got it home I found it too had a very tight chamber. Not quite as tight as the MR, but very close, and the throat is short, for loading 50gr bullets close to the lands. Initial shooting proved this is a keeper that shoots under 1" with factory loads in the first 20 rounds. For those afraid of Remington quality don't hesitate, they're better than I thought. I'm impressed. | ||
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| one of us |
The Remington is lighter because it doesn't come with an extractor or a safety. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} I use to have several Model 7's from the Custom Shop. MS models with the full length stock, all in .350 RemMag. They were all nicely crafted renditions of a piss-poor design. | |||
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one of us |
I work for Gander Mountain, so consequently I get to hold a fair bit of rifles and I've noticed a definite slip in remington's quality in recent years. | |||
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| one of us |
From what everybody has been posting lately, I've really been lucky with these two guns. I really wanted a Winchester 70 featherweight, but when I saw the mountain rifle, I decided it wasn't worth the wait to maybe get one that wasn't as nice. With all due respect, these bolt designs have been cussed and discussed 'til the cows come home. I've killed my fair share of deer and varmints with Savages, Remingtons (40X, 700, and customs), they all work fine, it's just personal preference. The single best group I've ever shot was with a custom Remington 40X that Mr. Shilen had reworked. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. | |||
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| one of us |
Bobby- Too many guys gripe about stuff that they don't have personal experience with. They get on the bandwagon. "Remingtons suck", "Leupolds are the only scope to use", "You NEED a CRF rifle for prairie dogs", "Matchkings aren't hunting bullets" (uh-oh... ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} ), etc. Some is based on fact or experience, but a lot is based on simple brand loyalty, or what their father used & they were brought up on. You went out, researched it a bit, held them in your hands, and made your choice based on that. That's the best way. Enjoy! | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Shakespere wrote "He who is satisfied is well paid" I wonder if that 270 will chamber factory loads? | |||
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| one of us |
an X ring hit for coldbore!!!! | |||
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| one of us |
All of mine shoot with any other manufacturers product they have been up against. Of course I buy the heavy barreled versions, but they come from the same place. I will continue to purchase 700 remingtons. | |||
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one of us |
The problems I see with the Remington M700 is with the designs of the trigger and the extractor. The trigger can give you a discharge without you pulling it. The extractor can break. I have observed both of these problems myself. The discharge was on a M700 7mm RM while elk hunting, and the extractor on a M700 .416 RM from the Custom Shop (on the third round fired from a box of Remington factory ammo. How do you know the J-Lock won't fail "on lock" while you are out hunting? ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} With design flaws the question of quality is moot. jim dodd [ 03-29-2003, 04:34: Message edited by: HunterJim ] | |||
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| one of us |
With millions of M700's in circulation. Why would you even buy a new one? Buy a mid 1980's or older and the finnish quality is much better then todays shit,plus the price tag is lower. The fact is,if winchester hadn't reintroduced the CRF pre 64 style action,you wouldn't hear all of the horse shit about remingtons. Since most of the assholes crying about remington,were shooting remingtons and push feed post 64 M70's,prior to the introduction of the winchester classic and other crf's like cz. Now you have a couple threads on how "unsafe remingtons are" and suddenly half of the people on these boards have had a safety issue with a remington or their cousins best friends dad had a remington fuck up on him too. | |||
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The last one I bought was a Remington SSF Sendaro 300 ultra mag. The bolt handle "binds" when you cock it. It didn't do it when purchased. It started this after about about 50 rounds. I don't know if it's that stupid j-lock thing or just bad workmanship. Also the trigger breaks around 7lbs. I know these things can be fixed but on a $750 rifle it shouldn't be necessary. I like Remington rifles, I've got 3 in the safe. When they start building them for the sportsman and not the lawyers I may coinsider buying another one. Some people will reply, those that criticize have no actual experience, My opinion is those that don't are blinded by brand loyalty. | |||
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RMK, I commented on problems with Remington rifles that I had observed first hand in rifles I owned. So far all you have contributed is name-calling. jim dodd | |||
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| new member |
Sorry but the extractor bitch just won't fly. I've seen hundreds of 700s and most of the ones I've ever seen with extractor failures are ones that weren't installled right at the factory and ones that were abused. I've seen extactor failures with all of the others. | |||
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| one of us |
Jack, Since my extractor failed on shot #3 with a rifle direct from the Remington Custom Shop, it is covered by your comment. The barrel-band front swivel departed on the first shot, and after looking it over I threw it away. Both surprised me in a Custom Shop rifle. I can amend my comment to say if Remington fits the extractor properly it is less likely to break. I have also observed them shaving pieces from magnum brass cartridge cases, and those shavings binding ejectors. I find it easier to buy other rifles. I have a mix of push-feed and controlled-feed action rifles, but the Remington rifles have after-market or modified triggers and none are magnums. I buy over 30 long guns a year as the firearms chair for our local SCI Chapter to use in our fund raiser, and there are plenty of good guns out there without buying Remington M700s. jim | |||
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I tried a remington factory round in my .270 and it closed with very slight resistance. Just like you would try to partial resize to get. If I turn my full length die down to make solid contact with the shellholder and size brass it closes normally. Anything short of this solid contact either closes hard or not at all. | |||
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| <Ranger Dave> |
After buying an 870 Express I will not be owning a new Remington for quiet sometime. I've never seen such junk. | ||
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You got lucky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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| one of us |
So ranger dave did you handle the 870 before buying it? I can't figure out how anybody could mistakenly find quality in the express model,if they actually took the time to handle one prior to buying. Kind of like that M710 . [ 03-31-2003, 10:59: Message edited by: RMK ] | |||
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One of Us |
Evidently there was a pretty sizeable gap in quality corresponding to who owned Remington in what time period. I bought a lot of Rems back in 70's and 80's with extremely minor or little problems to speak of with the exception of the one I listed below. I didn't shoot any one gun more than oh say a couple of hundred rounds. I did have a problem with the trigger and safety combo at that time though. Gun went off when flipping from safe to fire and no my fingers were not on the trigger. There had to be a problem with that or Remington wouldn't have had this recall on them where "you" pay 20 bucks and have the bolt able to open on safe. The Remingtons that disappointed me the most were the custom shop versions which I bought in the mid 90's to 2000. All in All if made correctly they will do the trick but the design has some design deficiencies (safety,trigger and extractor) that are not apparent with mauser and other derivations of it. The plastic J lock just has to be the biggest piece of crap ever put on a rifle. | |||
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| <ovis> |
Guys, I really hate to post this as I've been a happy Rem owner for many years. Yesterday I began load development with my new Mod700BDL .375RUM. I began with mild loads, just getting her sighted in. Three shots and it was going well. On the fifth shot, the extractor let go. Going to the smith today. As a side note, actually this is pretty funny, after those five shots, the wonderful J-lock is toast also, absoulutely will not function. I really like the rifle, but it needs some help. Joe | ||
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J-lock and the the 375RUM don't get along, haha. That might be why the bolt handle binds on my 300 RUM. | |||
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| new member |
When did Remington introduce the J-Lock? I'm buying a new 700BDL that have been standing in the shop for a while and it lacks this 'feature'. According to Remingtons web-site the 700 has a stock of 'high-gloss American walnut' which i presume is lacquered. Is it still manufactured with oiled stocks? Cheers, /Joakim | |||
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before someone jumps on me, let me say I own several mod 700s that I inhereted from my father, who never shot them. He was a contractor, and obtained them for work he did for a friend (?????) who was a gun dealer. The 700s in my safe will remain there because my dad has been dead for 20 years, and for that reason I will not get rid of them. All the posters here who like the Remingtons have made excuses for the malfunctions displayed by Remington rifles, and shotguns. Every one of those malfunctions is because of either a design flaw, or poor assembly at their factory. The tight chambers sighted as a "PLUS" by the owners was caused by reamers that have been re-ground too many times, leaveing the chambers too small. This isn't a plus but lack of quality control, and submiting to the bean counters that put bottom line ahead of quality. If anyone thinks the fit and finish of a Rem 700 is top notch, he simply has not seen many quality rifles. Remington was the first co. in the USA to go the K-Mart, Wal-Mart route by cutting quality to be able to sell their firearms at discount store prices. I have to laugh when I see the posts of those who love Remington rifles. They inverably scream obsinities, and call names with anyone who disagrees with them, and in most cases they are teen agers who have never shot a real rifle, or even seen one, because real rifles are not sold in K-Mart, Or Wal-Mart. If they knew anything about firearms, they would know a rifle that will not chamber factory ammo is poorly made! ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <JBelk> |
Well and forcefully said, MacD37. | ||
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| one of us |
I must just be lucky. I have never had, or seen, a Remington fail in my 18 years of shooting them. I have 700s, a Model 7, 1100, 870 Express Mag 20 ga. and not 1 has ever failed either with or without the J-lock. Accuracy is fine to excellent and I have only "tinkered" with one. But I will say my custom rifles are built on Mausers and Winchester Classic actions. Not because I think CRF is necessary at all, but I just prefered them at the moment. | |||
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| one of us |
MacD37, Well said. Wait. I bought my last gun at Wal-Mart! Of course, not a Remington. I know better. | |||
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| <ovis> |
MacD37, Even those teenagers have opinions and rather than turn them away, why don't you try to educate them without your condecending attitude. I posted my Remington information just because it was that, information. I haven't called a name, yelled an obscenity, nor am I a teenager. As fine guns go, well I guess I know nothing about them as for me fine is as fine does. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, it makes the world go 'round. As you stated, you'll have to laugh because, well, Remington will take care of my problem and, at some point, I'll probably buy another. I, too laugh, when I see people slap each other on the back after bitch slapping others from the keyboard. Says volumes about their character. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
Ovis, When an old timer speaks up it may be because he has been there and done that. Sometimes we tire of explaining the same old thing over and over. In general firearms are inexpensive and the better ones don't cost much more than the cheapest and the better designs cost about the same as the cheapest new. Also guns last for more than a lifetime if cared for at all. Thus a M 70 bought new in the 1930's for what is a weeks pay today will still be good a hundred years later and serve three or four generations. We all have to start somewhere and most of us get a hand me down gun for our first one. But with all the information that is on your monitor today one would have to have their head in the dust not to learn after a while. So once you save up some bucks upgrade your gun. Meanwhile have a nice day. Well said MacD37 | |||
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MacD37 said all that needed to be said. It comes down to bottom line over quality and that is unacceptable. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Ovis, I agree, the first post, you made, was exactly that information! However the fact that you reported the malfunctions of your Remington, without stateing the real reasons for those malfunctions is not exactly what I would call an educational post for the young you seem so concerned about! The fact that you are willing to put up with poor quality,when it cost no more for real quality, is no reason to cuss those who aren't,as in your post to me, and who are willing to tell the young folks the facts. It is simply that Remington uses the cheapest method of building a rifle known to man. This is not done to help their customers, but to improve their bottom line, nothing more. The extractors are stamped out tin affaires, the bolt handle is silver soldered on the bolt body,they are push feed,because it is cheap to make not that it is better than CRF. I could put up with the PF,on a deer rifle, if they didn't have so many other crappy features! The bedding looks like it was done with an axe, the stock finish is aken to sears kitchen cabinets, with the cheap poly urathane crap "DIP" finish, over wood that is at best orange crate quality,and the synthetic stocks look like recycled tupper ware, the safeties are not safeties at all, but a joke,and I've personally been present when two Remington rifles fired when the safety was released. Thankfully there were none of your young people down range when this happened! One of those, accidental fireings, caused the loss of one of the largest Alaska Moose I have seen in all my 60 yrs of hunting, from the age of six! It is one thing, Ovis, to be willing to accept these short comings, but quite another to report them, as if they were rare, when you know they aren't! Now, who is irresponsible? ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} This is my last word on this subject! [ 04-05-2003, 19:26: Message edited by: MacD37 ] | |||
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| one of us |
MadD37 et al; I've got (2) 700's and now I'm wondering just how crappy they may be. 1 is a brand new custom shop AWR in 7 RUM, the other is a late 80's Classic in .35 Whelen. I realize that the AWR is not a custom rifle, but the light weight/stainless/slim lines of the rifle appeal to me. As to the .35 Whelen, I just really like this cartridge. I've only shot each a few times, but, as I've posted previously, I don't go to the range other than to sight them in, then I only hunt with them. Am I realistically going to have problems with them? Should I not take the 7RUM AWR sheep hunting this fall?? Seriously, please educate me on how shitty these things are relative to other rifles. Seems like many on this site only like M70's w/CRF or Mauser-actions or customr rifles. I only own 2 model 700's, 2 Weatherby's and 3 Ruger 77's, and generally only hunt with these rifles. As to Remington shotgun quality, I am a fanatic duck hunter, my first shotgun was an 870 magnum Wingmaster 12ga. I've duck/goose/pheasant hunted with it for over 20 consecutive years, minimum of 15-20 times per fall, in all types of weather, and have never had a single problem with it.This includes the SF Bay to sub-zero hunting in NorCal; I would venture to say that anyone who says the Wingmasters lack quality has not hunted very extensively with one, actually I am tempted to say they are full of shit, but I don't want to be confrontational!! As to the 870 Express, what do you expect from a gun that costs $219.00 brand new??Craig Nolan | |||
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| one of us |
PS: One last thing to answer Craig! Craig, I can't say about the newer 870 shotguns, but I agree with you on the reliability of the older 870 wing masters! I have two Wing masters, both 12ga, one is a Deerslayer with iron sights, and the other is a 26" Modified barrel I use for dove hunting some times. Both these shotguns are 30 yrs old, and like you I have not had a problem with them. Too bad their rifles aren't of the same quality, and maybe their shotguns are not anymore, I don't know! There is no need to go into the rifles farther than I already have. You can find the short commings of the 700s listed on any website where rifles are discussed. Some simply disregard the warnings, that's human nature, and me nor anyone else will change that! BYE! | |||
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| one of us |
Craig, I've been hunting in the rough and remote in Colo and Wy for the past 40 years. With a (hang my head in shame) Remington of one sort or another. I have never had a failure of any sort from the rifles. This includes the ones with the j locks. But then, to tell the truth, we (my hunting gang) haven't ever had any sort of rifle failures and there has been in camp everything from sakos to winchesters to weatherbys to brownings, and, of course, my remington. One fellow dropped his rifle and broke the scope so now I take with me a spare scope in weaver rings that has been sighted in on the rifle I'm using. So, what I'm saying is I have every confidence in my Remington rifles. When I was being flamed for making that same statement elsewhere, I was told "just because you've never been in a plane wreck doesn't mean they don't happen." While I am still studying the profoundness of that statement, it hasn't kept me off any airplanes. | |||
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one of us |
Tikka is making a new series, based on the old master series. And there will be a light weight model too. It is called T3. It got a good review in Vapentidningen and they will accutually tell you if they don't like a gun. Johan | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Huuummm, I seem to have noticed the exact same thing. Well and politely said, Joe. | |||
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one of us |
The latest and greatest from Remington is by and large disappointing. I'm seeing quite a few poor rifles from them as of late. They've always had their problems with the extractors and such, but lately I've noticed more than a few barrels installed VERY crooked. To the point that I need to shim them when mounting scopes more often than not. That should not be happening at the rate it is. When you install a new scope that was centered from the factory on a rifle that is true, the center of the reticle will be very near center on the boresighter. Many Remingtons lately have been off the grid i.e. more than 40 MOA from center at 100 yds. Don't mean to be cruel, but nobody else is having problems like this. I'm not saying that you can't find a good one, just that the trend is headed in the wrong direction. That issue is just related to workmanship. Many people though are still in denial about some of the fundamentally poor designs that this rifle suffers from. Particularly interesting are those that say that their M 700 extractor hasn't failed so it must be OK. That is much of the same "logic" that says Ballistic tips are 100% reliable game bullets when the whole body of experinence on this board would indicate otherwise. While I will not say that either of these products are garbage, you need to ask yourself how much you hate failure. And furthermore, how much are you prepared to do to avoid it. No one can answer that but you. Truth be told, M 70 extractors fail too. In my mind though, you need to look at probability. When you see a design that fails more often than all the others put together (M700 extractor) red flags ought to be going off. If you are buying on price alone, what price is cheap enough to justify failure? FWIW I've never seen a Ruger 77 extractor fail. Gabe | |||
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| one of us |
In hearing all of these horror stories and these emotional arguments, all I can say is that I must be lucky. Nine years ago I bought a Remington 700 Stainless Mountain Rifle in .30-06 to use as my go-anywhere hunting rifle for North America. If I recall, I paid something like $525 Canadian (about $350 US) for it at the local gun store because Remington had discontinued that particular configuration. It weighs almost 7.5 pounds fully loaded and scoped. It recoils like a beast. It has a cheap black, injection-molded stock that one poster adequately described as "Tupperware" and it has no magazine floorplate. It came with a factory "pressure point" on the barrel near the forend which soon warped away and caused a few fliers. To remedy this situation I sanded it out and bedded the forend with some BondoGlass I had sitting around and placed a layer of black electrical tape over the bedding so the barrel was not resting on a hard surface. While I was at it, I bedded the round receiver and recoil lug, which, because of their round, "cheap" design, made bedding a breeze. This rifle has a light barrel which heats up easily. In spite of this, I can put the first three 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips into about an inch at 200 metres EVERY TIME from a cold barrel. And if I'm shooting 100 yards, this rifle miraculously prints its favourite 165- and 180-grain loads virtually to the same point of impact. That "crummy" factory barrel is the most polished barrel I have ever had the pleasure of using -- and I'm a competitive shooter. The process of cleaning it is laughably easy. It has survived hunting in the coastal rainforest of British Columbia without complaint and done its thing whenever called upon. It is also a joy to tote around through the mountains and dense forests of B.C.'s varied terrain. I own a number of rifles that I love dearly, including a vintage Sako, but for serious hunting, in my mind they are all a joke compared to this piece of "junk". Gun writers often talk about what they would choose if they could have only one rifle. Well, this is the one for me ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
I would have to say that I am not a big fan of the Remington 700. I much prefer the Winchester Classic Super Grade to anything else for the money. Anyway, last year I did buy a new Sendero in 7mm Ultra Mag. First Remington I had purchased in over 20 years. I had heard so much about the 7mm Ultra being so touchy to load for, etc. I just wanted to see for myself. I had Lee fix a set of custom Collet dies for the thing and went to work. Using Retumbo powder and 150 Ballistic Tips and Swift Sciroccos I began to get tremendous accuracy and velocities of better than 3400fps. The rifle functions flawlessly and all I did was adjust the trigger. Maybe I just got lucky but at this point I am tending to view the rig as maybe the best long range deer killing machine I have ever had my hands on. I am using a 6.5x20x40 Leupold in Talley mounts with a Premier custom reticle. | |||
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| one of us |
I never bought a Remington, so am I missing out? | |||
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