Took a tour of some pawn shops in my area and turned up a fairly clean, no dings or dents anywhere, Browning A Bolt Stainless/Synthetic in 300 WMg for $525. As I've never paid any attention to an A Bolt, and as this one is generating some interest basd on the feel and my current hole in a 300WMg range caliber, I'd like to get some comments on the reliability/problems to expect, trigger adjustments and average accuracy to expect and price of this one.
The shop also has a Savage 116 Stainless 300WMg in a factory wood stock that has some bumps and scrapes, a Bushnell 3x9 Banner at $300. The gun weighs a ton but I have had some decent performance out of a previous Savage 300Winnie, and at the price difference compared to the Browning I'm having trouble justifying buying the A Bolt. Any comments would be appreciated.
Ron

Savage is the much better value. I own one and have shot two others. In fact, just last week I also bought one of their muzzleloaders.

Great accuracy and better functionality over the A-bolt.

I've owned two A-Bolts and still have one. They were both very accurate but IMHO, a poorly designed rifle. I hate the magazine system, both jammed often, they rattled to the point that I hated them, couldt drop a shell loosely in and close the bolt (at least with a 06 class case), barrel smacking a rock cracked the stock without touching the stock and if I think a little longer, I'm sure to find other things I didnt like.

I use to think it was really nice looking rifle. Now I see cheap/over priced when I look at them.

My experience is contrary to Boilers....

MY A Bolts have synthetic stocks and two have been replaced with Laminated ones... I didn't like the factory stock's gloss finish...

I have a 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag and a 30/06 in A Bolts....

All are very very accurate....As accurate as a Savage...

I personally say that they are each different rifles.... with different fine points.. both will suffice in the accuracy department...

YOU can't go wrong with the Savage at $300.00 over the Brownings $525.00.... If you go the Savage, you can take the $225.00 you save over the Browning and buy yourself a good Leupold Scope for it...

my thoughts at least...
cheers
seafire

It's all good!
I've seen the A-Bolt rattling mag complaint before but I've never experienced it with my Stainless Stalker in 30'06. The gun shoots very, very well. The stock is synthetic and the screw needs to be checked and retorqued occasionally. I bought mine used and consider it a great rifle at a great price.

How could you lose with a Savage in good shape?

I too hate the magazine system.It is slower and more complicated than most other detachable magazine systems.I also have no use for a tang safety.Last of all,I find that the a-bolts seem to produce more felt recoil than other rifles chambered for the same cartridges.

Accurate junk.

AD

The Abolt is nicer of the two but, the Savage would probably be more functional IMO. I'd buy the Savage and refinish the stock or buy an after Market syn.

I've worked w/ 2 Browning bolts & several BARS and they were pretty accurate and functioned nicely but, they didn't shoot quite as well as the Savage rifles I own. The Savage trigger will be easier to work w/. I did just sell a real sweet Browning Medallion 30-06 that was as new and It had a nice trigger @ 3lbs. The new owner had me work up a load for it and It shot 1" groups at 120 yards w/ one of the first loads I tried (180 Hdys & H4831).

Guess it comes down to how Purty you want her to be.

Have a Good one.

Reloader

quote:

Accurate junk.

The gunsmith I use says A-Bolts come in more than any other rifle for little things like magazine floor plate repairs, magazine modifications, bedding issues, trigger creep, etc.

I forgot to mention the action screw needs to be tightened all the time on the Hunter in 280. I eventually used a thread locker. The problem was I had to find the sweet spot. Too tight, accuracy went to hell, too loose... when I had the trigger done and had it bedded for the second time, I had to do the whole screw process again.

quote:

Originally posted by SempreElk:

quote:

Accurate junk.

My first high-powered rifle was an A-Bolt. I will not own another. The bolt is a needlessly complicated, fabricated affair, poorly constructed with numerous splined pins, etc. Critical components, such as the trigger and the safety, are aluminum. I have not owned a Savage rifle, but from diagrams the bolt looks very similar to the A-Bolts, and thus suffers from the same flaws.

Browning's A-Bolt has been a big seller from the start, and many like them and use them with no issues whatsoever. But for me, their ersatz construction makes them a no-go.

-Eric

I had one once. It was a smooth feeding accurate rifle. I would pop the magazine out and stick it in my coat pocket to stay "legal" when returning from the stand. after losing it twice I gave up on that and just took the bullets out of the rifle. Mine had the boss thingy on it. After a while I just couldn't stand looking at it any longer and decided to sell the rifle and move on.

I think your money could be better spent, but that's more a matter of taste than function. The A bolt will put'm down as well as any.

Terry

The Browning A bolt is the only factory gun I now own. I have found it better then Remington or Winchester factory junk.It's not a great gun but I feel it's better than most.When I bought it the gun wouldn't shoot better then 3"so I boxed it up and sent it back to Browning.
They bedded the action installed a new barrel and sent it back to me with 5 test targets, all at no charge.I must say it now shoots under 1/2" with most factory rounds.I have also sent back Rem and Winchesters for the same problems only to be told the guns meet their factories standards.
To me that says a lot about Browning.

I'd rather have my rifle made in America or Europe over Japan.

I would much rather have the Abolt. I have 2 along with several Weatherbys, a couple Remingtons, a Winchester and a couple Savages. I also own a BAR Longtrac, the 3 Brownings are at least as accurate as any of them and more so than the Winny and the Remingtons. I happen to like my safety on the tang and absolutely hate the Winchester wing safety. The price on the Abolt is about right, the Savage is a bit high as I can sell new package Savages for $340 with scope and sling, with detachable mag.

I just picked up a Browning ss stalker in 300rum made them in 2001 this rifle was new and unfired. I haven't hunted with it yet but get groups under and 1" for 3 shots. The guy from 24hrcampfire did one of his paint jobs on the factory stock previous owner also had a brake,new pad and trigger lighten. I found 3 extra factory magazine for the rum case all in all so far kind of like it last week had a guy at the range with one in 300mag a-bolt and we were shooting at 200yds and he got alittle over 1" groups for 3 shoots he was using IMR-4831 and a 180gr partition and thats not bad for a factory rifle his rifle hadn't had anything done to it. When I work sight-in days since I now own a a-bolt as some of the guys shooting them so far haven't heard any negative remarks when ask how they like them. I don't think anyone can answer as to what is a better dollar value between the two rifles my opinion would be based on what I'm using. Well good luck.

One of my elk hunting buddies uses an old A-bolt synthetic stalker in 7mmRemMag. His gun prefers 160gr Failsafes, and he has killed plenty of elk and deer with that combo. He has had no problems with the magazine, safety, etc., that I am aware of. While I have never owned one, they appear to be good rifles in capable hands.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Accurate junk.

AD

Meaning what ???? I'd take either the Browning or Savage over a newer Winchester or Remington . Now we're really talking junk !!!

Oh, back to the thread. My A-Bolt has never experienced the magazine rattle or any other problem. It's a .338 Mag gun. I also had one in .300 Mag once but that one is gone, had a hard time dialing it in, but finally got it .The two Savages I have both shoot .25-.50 MOA with only handload work and trigger adjustment. The advantage with the Savage is the capability of making it a switchbarrel for cheap money. The big advantage of the A-Bolt in my book is the 3 lugged bolt and 60 degree bolt lift.

Thanks guys...ya'lls comments are about what I expected and I guess I'll pass for the moment on the browning until I can find something that more than whispers to me to take it home.
My last Savage would shoot 5 180gr SST's under 3/4's with boring reliability but the boredom 'caused me to get the itch for a new adventure and neither of these two have made me reach for my wallet ...yet! LOL! Got two NIB CZ's to play with this fall so I'll wait until next year...unless I can steal something interesting.
Ron

I have owned 6 A-Bolts in different calibers, all were/are accurate out to the 300 yard mark. I reload my own ammo. The 243 would hit primers at 100 yards!

I had one in .257 Roberts.....I liked it but the Roberts is not a short action round....so It's been traded. It was a very fine gun and I wouldn't hesitate toi buy another A-Bolt again.

However the boss system (dial a deer) is something I can easily do without. We no longer see it on the M-70 any more do we?

Bowhuntrrl, the made-in-JayPan A-Bolt is a very poorly built rifle, comprised of numerous sub-assemblies, potmetal parts, rolled-pins, flimsey springs, and junk. It is a mere shadow of Browning's fine old Belgian-made High-Power, which preceeded it by a score of years or more, and as far as I'm concerned, the A-Bolt is a Browning in name only.

Most telling is the fact that the A-Bolt action is never used by target shooters, professional hunters, or custom riflemakers, while the Model 700 and Model 70 are used by the best custom riflebuilders in the business, as well as targert shooters and professional hunters world-wide. That should tell a prudent man something........

At least with the Winchester and Remington, you can throw everything else away but the receiver and bolt assembly, rework the action properly, and have a soild rifle -- more solid than when it left the factory. Throw everything else away on the A-Bolt, and all you have left to work with is junk. There's nothing worth salvaging.

The A-Bolt was designed for the guy who wants something fairly light and inexpensive that's accurate right out of the box, who doesn't know how to evaluate a rifle any other way, and doesn't care to -- nor does he care if the barrel inscription reads "MADE IN JAPAN".

It's not everyone's cup of tea........

AD

Allen, While I agree with most of your post. There are a lot of really good hunters that don't give a damn about the rifle it's self. They look at it as nothing more than a tool to get the job done and the A bolt does this as well as well as any. You can talk to them about target shooters, professional hunters and custom rifle builders all day and they'll look at you like your speaking a foreign language.

I think for someone who wanted a rifle to hunt with and not customize, they could certainly do worse.

Terry

I couldn't agree with TC1 any more. If the rifle does what you ask of it, how bout rather...demand of it just to keep our standards high here, I could care less what others say. This discussion has been had multiple times...the potmetal thing is always brought up and honestly I think people just like saying that...I'll recall a retort to this statement..."just what is pot metal"?

Anyway, my A-Bolt in .270 Win, came out of the box shooting 3 different types of factory fodder at 3/4" at 100 yards or better. I like the palm swell, 60 degree bolt throw, recessed crown (very nice), my mag doesn't rattle, and if it is more convenient for you, you can always load and eject from the top like a standard ADL. I think the detachable mag is nice if you want to be loaded but safe if you're not hunting yet (ie. in transport). I believe the barrels aren't as easy to remove and thus actions aren't floating all over the place like the model 700. I like the 700 action, but there are plenty of remchesters that are lacking as a whole. A lot of A-Bolts and Savages come out of the box shooting so why change them? I think the 700 just became the easy and a very available action to build on. It helps that a lot of people buy them with plans to already do some kind of conversion, especially when the rifle won't shoot for them.

My rifle is a stainless stalker, and not too heavy, nor too light. Browning actually offers a number of configurations and calibers in left hand which is a major plus to me. My trigger was good, and was easy to lighten. I think tang safeties are very nice. I like the tang safety on Ruger #1's and my Browning BPS. Remington safeties are close enough, but I think the 3 positions safeties would really bug me. As far as being made in Japan...well that's just how it goes sometimes, it's 2005. I think they are fully capable of decent metal work, they must be, my rifle shoots better than a lot of others. Isn't it the 700 bolt handle that can simply sheer sometimes? That's pretty crappy. Anyway, I just had to put in my two cents for the A-Bolt considering I think these things get pretty biased.

Count me on the "like" side. A rifle must be

A) Safe. So, no Walker triggers, and has to handle gas events properly.
B) Accurate enough.
C) Pleasant to handle. When you hold it, it's got to fit, and the parts have to operate smoothly, logically, and with a good "feel".
D) It has to be durable enough.

The Browning does all that. I could care less if it is built in Lower Elbonia using toilet paper, rubber bands and chewing gum. JMO, Dutch

I wasn't going to reply again till I saw AD comments and TC1 responds with I fully agree with since the orginal question was in regards to the a-bolt which alot of owners replied. I wonder how this got so far off track as to selecting an a-bolt for a custom rifle?

Tom, it's real simple. If the A-Bolt action was all that sound, it would embraced by the custom riflemakers and target shooters alike. It's not. In fact, it's rejected out of hand.

AD

quote:

nor does he care if the barrel inscription reads "MADE IN JAPAN".

As it does on the SKB shotguns, the Winchester 101s, the Browning Citoris, Winchester reproductions of the 52B and the 1892, Weatherby shotguns, and who knows what other high quality guns.

I like the old "made in USA" stamp.....but then there wouldn't be many guns in this house if that was a requirement.

quote:

I'd like to get some comments on the reliability/problems to expect, trigger adjustments and average accuracy to expect and price of this one.

I'm having trouble justifying buying the A Bolt. Any comments would be appreciated.
Ron

So how are Allen's comments out of line? Above is the bulk of the original poster's questions. A Bolts are "accurate junk." Anyone with any education about bolt rifle's would reject them out of hand. Custom gunmaker's won't touch them. I'd take a Savage 110 any day of any month of any year as a real hunting rifle over the ABolt.

The only A-Bolt I ever owned was the little 22 Hornet Hunter which served me quite well but I could never get attached to it like some others. Shot amazingly well but the magazine does suck. Can't top-load the rimmed rounds, you have to slide them in front to back after opening the floorplate.

Sold it the other day without the usual remorse when I part with one.

When I was a boy, I'd go into various gun and sporting goods stores with my dad, and we'd spend hours looking at guns. I entered grade school in the fall of 1963 -- at the very end of Winchester's glory days -- but I can still see the racks of old Model 94s, Model 12s, and Model 70s, and I can still hear the adults bemoaning the demise of the pre-64 Model 70 when its successor was introduced in early 1964.

But even so, things weren't so bad. There were still LOTS of used pre-64 Model 70s in the racks clear through the 1970s, the post-64 M70 after about 1968 wasn't a bad rifle at all, plus there were German-made Weatherby's, Browning High-Powers, Sakos, later on Colt Sauers, and back in those days the Remington 700 was still a very well-built rifle. I grew up with an undertanding of quality gunmaking, knew about value of milled-steel construction, few and simple parts, durability, reliability, etc......

And I'm afraid the philosophy of the A-Bolt flies in the face of everything I've come to believe in for my entire life about quality gunmaking. It just doesn't cut it, epecially to someone like me who grew up looking at those wonderful old Belgian-made Brownings with my dad. Compared to those finely-crafted beauties, the A-Bolt is an abomination.

We live in a funny age. It's like fundamental quality simply doesn't count any more........

AD

That is true of so much of contemporary life, not just guns. I would not own an A-Bolt as a gift, but, I have three Japanese Brownings that are among my finest guns, these are an 1886 SRC repro, a Citori Type III combo gun in .308x12 ga. and a BSS-sidelock 20 bore that is a superb gun, better than the big name English gun I once owned.

If, a guy likes an A-Bolt, well that's his choice, but, an A-Bolt is to a Belgian Safari Grade as a Yugo is to a Mercedes. Fortunately, I have been able to acquire quite a number of classic rifles from the "good old days" and have enough (almost) to keep me going.

I think that Allen is right about the A-Bolt, but, not every hunter really wants top equipment, so, the A-Bolt sells like dambusters.

Kute, I agree with you. I will say this, many of Browning's Japanese-built guns are very good, especially the Citori shotgun.

I still won't own one, simply because there's something about 'MADE IN JAPAN' stamped on the barrel that doesn't set well with me, especially when I'm up on the mountain. It's OK for a car, a watch, or a TV, but not my hunting guns.

In our house, all of the guns were made in the USA or Europe, and that's my standard to this day........

AD

I don't have any japanese guns in my safe either, I had an a-bolt Micro hunter in 7mm 08 for a little while, traded it for a pre 64 30/30, I have a CZ 7X57 that is better than the A-bolt any way you look at it. Todays gun's are more cookie cutter type things, They work and the design is good, the steel is probably better but the stamped out floor plates just plain suck, Some of the modern rifles are prety darn good But I just prefer a little more hand fitting and polishing to a better CNC machine...tj3006

While we are on the subject of CZ, I handled one this weekend at our local Sportsmans club banquet. Quite probably the worst rifle I have handled in a while, and I handle quite a few as I am a firearms dealer. I have never sold CZ and now know I never will. Saying that a Browning is hard to work on, and is a lesser rifle than a Remmy is saying that a Cadillac is a lesser car that a chevy cause the chevy can be customized easier. The browning doesn't have to be customized to work and shoot well. How many caddys you ever see as race cars.

At least you see the CZ for what it is.

I'm not saying that the A-Bolt is hard to work on, but I am saying that no one wants to work on it because it's a junk action.

AD

quote:

I'd take either the Browning or Savage over a newer Winchester or Remington . Now we're really talking junk !!!

You should have seen the groups I shot Friday Morning w/ my two new Remington "Junk" Model 700s.

Reloader

I just had a Browning A-Bolt in .338 RUM rebarreled by a custom barrel maker, who had no problem doing the job. They are a small outfit in New York, don't know if many people have heard of them...Hart Rifle Barrels.
WyDog

A few smiths have told me they don't like working on the A bolt because the barrels are screwed on extremely tight and a real pain in the butt to get off.

Terry