Best medium bore cartridge ever

10 July 2019, 20:10

boom stick

What is the best medium bore cartridge of all time and why?
Is it the 6.5 Swede?
Is it the 257 Roberts?
300 HH?

10 July 2019, 20:23

Pancho

30-06 based on worldwide popularity.

My personal favorites are 264WM and 300 H&H.

10 July 2019, 20:54

Jim Knight

When I think of best medium, well, to me that's the 375 H&H. Best "more shootable in lighter rifles Medium" I think of 35 Whelen, 35 Whelen A.I. and the 9.3x62. Best "Medium Magnum" all around, any of the 338s. If I agree that Medium is smaller than .323" then it has to be the 30-06.

10 July 2019, 21:58

Dieseltrucker

Holland's .375. Folks have tried to reinvent the wheel with this or that over the years, but, in the end, any camp in africa has ammo for it, and it kills with aplomb, be it duiker, zebra, or buffalo.

10 July 2019, 21:59

boom stick

I get the 30-06 argument of a do all, but I see the 06 as more of a large game cart. I love the 35 Whelen or 375 HH when paired with the likes of a 6.5CM or 257 Bob. The 257 Bob and 6.5CM can do Elk as well but maybe not as well.

10 July 2019, 22:00

boom stick

quote:
Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
Holland's .375. Folks have tried to reinvent the wheel with this or that over the years, but, in the end, any camp in africa has ammo for it, and it kills with aplomb, be it duiker, zebra, or buffalo.

But is it a medium?
Can young and old folks shoot it well?

10 July 2019, 22:02

BaxterB

350 Rigby. No explanation needed.

10 July 2019, 22:05

boom stick

quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
350 Rigby. No explanation needed.

10 July 2019, 22:13

Dieseltrucker

.375 loaded with within its spectrum of bullet weights is tame to me. Yes, it is a .375 and not a .366 or smaller, but it does every thing well. It is a caliber that sits on the fence we have set for med/large bore.

I find mine to be much more well mannered than say a .300 win in a light package. To each his own. Just my experience.

FWIW, I shoot the .375 weatherby as I get extra FPS and can shoot H&H if my ammo does not show up.

10 July 2019, 23:06

TREE 'EM

7x57 Or 30/06
Easier to find 30/06 ammo but it won’t do anything in the field that the standard 7 hasn’t done too.

10 July 2019, 23:44

16Bore

270 Winchester.

11 July 2019, 07:40

SDhunter

quote:
Originally posted by 16Bore:
270 Winchester.

I concur

11 July 2019, 08:01

phurley5

My vote is the .358 STA. Good Shooting.

11 July 2019, 08:39

ted thorn

In a 2.8" pass me the 7-08

Add a half inch and its the 30-06 eleven times out of ten for me

11 July 2019, 16:47

ColoradoMatt

quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
30-06 based on worldwide popularity.

You nailed it!!!

My favorite is the 9.3x62, and I have great affection for the 7mm Mauser, but the ‘06 is, and always will be, King. It’s just too ubiquitous and versatile not to be. Everyone should own at least one!

11 July 2019, 17:01

Pegleg

Out West, for me it's the 338 WinMag.

11 July 2019, 18:13

sambarman338

This is one of those arguments that could go on for ever. It depends on the definition of medium bore and how medium within the category it has to be. Factors that need to be considered would be the range of bullet weights, their usefulness both in thick cover and at long range, ballistic efficiency and availability of ammo in hinterland trading posts.

If you think medium means smallish, then the 7x57, .30-06 or 300 Winchester mag could be candidates; if you think medium/cum all-round African calibre, then the 375 H&H magnum would have to be the one. Otherwise the 338 WM could be it, or, if long shots are less important, the 9.3x62. The 35 Whelen sits in the middle of it all but, with a looping trajectory and Remington's slow rifling, it lacks something both in the bush and in the mountains.

11 July 2019, 18:16

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by Pegleg:
Out West, for me it's the 338 WinMag.

I must admit that the 338 Win Mag speaks Medium with AUTHORITY. As the animals increase in size, the 338 just keeps putting them down fast. The other calibers all work well, certainly the three sisters, 270, 280, and 30-06, along with the step-sisters 7-08 and 308. But the 338 puts down animals with more authority, leaving nothing to chance.

For a lightweight factory rifle, Tikka puts out a great 338. For a little more heft, Ruger Hawkeye and all the others put the meat on the table.

The 338 is simply a great cartridge. The 30-06 is great, but most would admit that the 338 is greater. I would feel adequate with a 338 anywhere. And the 338 is waiting to be tweaked, with a little longer throat and magazine, should someone want to load the newer high-BC heavy bullets in long OAL. In Africa, we used all the old bullet weights: 300 Barnes, 275 Speer, 250 NP, and 200 Speer and all were outstanding. Currently, we prefer the 225 TTSX as a general plains game load, though there are really many many bullets available that are equal or better for some applications. When we load up with 225's we feel ready for anything (and we have some solids available in 250gn).

11 July 2019, 19:03

dpcd

Everyone; first agree on a definition of a Medium Bore; otherwise you will be interminably enmeshed in meaningless discussion about cartridges. You can't have "medium" being anything from 257 to 375. Or can you?
I like the Wolf Publishing definition, as indicated by the book; Big Bore Cartridges. And big starts at 32 caliber. His Big, not the traditional English Big; which starts at 450.
How about John Taylor's definition; 256 to 375. He also has a "large medium" chapter, of anything .40 caliber. I kind of like that one too.
So maybe have Three categories of Medium bores; small, medium, and large, Medium categories. That will make it super simple. (Not)
Do not confuse performance, velocity, or trajectory; some of the "best" cartridges for their purpose, are not super magnums.
Bottom line; until a firm definition is agreed upon, (which will never happen), all discussion of the "best" is useless. Or at best, lessons on why most diplomatic discussions never accomplish anything.
Personally, the best Medium bore is, anything in 33 caliber. Or 35.
Maybe

11 July 2019, 19:54

Stonecreek

"Medium bore" in black powder rifles is probably .50 caliber.

"Medium bore" in African terms is probably thought of as .338-375.

"Medium bore" in varmint rifles is probably .224" since a big bore varminter would be .257 and a small bore varminter would be .172.

I think of "medium bores" as the range of traditional (first half or so of the 20th century) military rifles, which would be about 6.5mm to .323". If that is a reasonable definition of "medium bore" then the .30-06 wins hands down with the .308 (7.62 Nato) a very close second. After that, the 8x57, the 7x57, and the 6.5x55 are all "honorable mentions". If you want to look at exclusively non-military cartridges then the .270 Win probably walks away with the prize.

11 July 2019, 19:58

EMP3

7x57?
'06?
.308 Win?
.270 Win?
.280 Rem?
.303 British?
8x57?

The .308 Win would get my vote, not merely because it works a lot better than it should, but because of various rifle configurations chambered for it. The M1-A1 is extremely accurate.

11 July 2019, 21:01

Luckyducker

My favorite is the 270Win but for the do all medium bore I think the 30/06 can't be beat. Most deer I have shot have been with the 06, at ranges from 200 yds. out to 800+ yds. I used to have an unfounded bias against the 270 but have come to appreciate it beyond measure.

11 July 2019, 21:12

surefire7

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Knight:
When I think of best medium, well, to me that's the 375 H&H. Best "more shootable in lighter rifles Medium" I think of 35 Whelen, 35 Whelen A.I. and the 9.3x62. Best "Medium Magnum" all around, any of the 338s. If I agree that Medium is smaller than .323" then it has to be the 30-06.

Could not have written it any better.

12 July 2019, 00:10

richj

Medium bore a already defined by the forum name :-) From The 27 To 366 Caliber Rifles.

So the in between point is 312 . So lets say 8mm. Mauser had it right

12 July 2019, 02:10

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by richj:
Medium bore a already defined by the forum name :-) From The 27 To 366 Caliber Rifles.

So the in between point is 312 . So lets say 8mm. Mauser had it right

Good point. the math may be updated: .277+.366=.643. .643/2= .322.

So yes, the 8mm is about the exact middle of this forum definition.
And a person could do a lot of hunting with the 8mm Mauser.
And if you will let some of us put a wee little more in the tank, we're talking 338, again.

12 July 2019, 02:52

Dieseltrucker

I’ll go one further. The smallest caliber I hunt with is a 6mm (.243). The largest is a .505. .243+.505=.748/2=.374. Now I’m taking a few liberties as the 6mm is classified as small and the .505 is truly large.

This is my personal mileage and my personal choice in calibers. But it gets me to my H&H or Weatherby as being MY medium caliber(-.001). Of course I could have picked different calibers and come to a different end result.

For me a 30-06 is a fine caliber. My father used one and took all NA game he wanted.

I consider it small. Just my personal frame of reference. I’m an exceptionally average guy of weight and statue. So I hope it’s not a Napoleon complex....I just happen to think from my experience with my game of choice a .30 cal of medium velocity is the starting point. I like large bullets and big blood trails. It’s ethical. We owe any game animal a good death. But a smaller caliber put in the same spot would bring the same end result. I do not think an elk, kudu or hartebeest would know the difference from a .323,.338,.358,.366 or .375 when hit in the boiler room. Or a .277.... so..... the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.

I truly love external and terminal ballistics. I take several types of softs when I cross the pond. I enjoy testing and seeing real world experience. I know what I like and what I don’t. I believe we have better bullets now than ever. Monolithic expanding bullets give folks something we have not had in commercial sporting ammo before. We can go down in weight and caliber and achieve the same result that would have taken a much larger caliber 50 years ago.

I know I’m taking out of both sides of my mouth. I say .375 is my medium but I’m not asking you to say the same. I say a smaller caliber will do as good if not better than my .375. But for this man, now in my life, my medium is a .375.

Take the soap box from me now.....

12 July 2019, 03:14

Nick Adams

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
What is the best medium bore cartridge of all time and why?
Is it the 6.5 Swede?
Is it the 257 Roberts?
300 HH?

Well, for my 2-cents, I've always been fond of my 300H&H. I've really enjoyed handloading for it.

12 July 2019, 03:28

A.J. Hydell

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Knight:
Best "more shootable in lighter rifles Medium" I think of 35 Whelen, 35 Whelen A.I. and the 9.3x62.

The .35 Whelen has long established itself as the 'poor man's medium magnum.'

Rich-guy spendy types like to throw dollars at custom .375H&H rifles, and drink all the nostalgic kool-aid while dreaming about safaris to African they'll never take in this lifetime.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, hunters of average means have been using the 35 Whelen to kill all manner of big game, including the big Alaska bears, for decades simply as a practical matter.

Best medium bore in the world, the .35Whelen. None better.

12 July 2019, 03:36

416Tanzan

quote:
Originally posted by Dieseltrucker:
I’ll go one further. The smallest caliber I hunt with is a 6mm (.243). The largest is a .505. .243+.505=.748/2=.374. Now I’m taking a few liberties as the 6mm is classified as small and the .505 is truly large.

This is my personal mileage and my personal choice in calibers. But it gets me to my H&H or Weatherby as being MY medium caliber(-.001). Of course I could have picked different calibers and come to a different end result.

For me a 30-06 is a fine caliber. My father used one and took all NA game he wanted.

I consider it small. Just my personal frame of reference. I’m an exceptionally average guy of weight and statue. So I hope it’s not a Napoleon complex....I just happen to think from my experience with my game of choice a .30 cal of medium velocity is the starting point. I like large bullets and big blood trails. It’s ethical. We owe any game animal a good death. But a smaller caliber put in the same spot would bring the same end result. I do not think an elk, kudu or hartebeest would know the difference from a .323,.338,.358,.366 or .375 when hit in the boiler room. Or a .277.... so..... the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper.

I truly love external and terminal ballistics. I take several types of softs when I cross the pond. I enjoy testing and seeing real world experience. I know what I like and what I don’t. I believe we have better bullets now than ever. Monolithic expanding bullets give folks something we have not had in commercial sporting ammo before. We can go down in weight and caliber and achieve the same result that would have taken a much larger caliber 50 years ago.

I know I’m taking out of both sides of my mouth. I say .375 is my medium but I’m not asking you to say the same. I say a smaller caliber will do as good if not better than my .375. But for this man, now in my life, my medium is a .375.

Take the soap box from me now.....

Nicely reasoned.

You'll note in my byline that I link a 338 WM to a 375 Ruger. I think we're on the same page, though both of us would make our separate choices anyway.

Both 375 and 338 are excellent, great mediums, and both the Ruger and WinMag fit 06/270-length actions, FWIW. (PS: the 375 Ruger, 20in alaskan is my wife's "heavy," but that's another story.)

12 July 2019, 03:58

chuck375

quote:
Originally posted by 16Bore:
270 Winchester.

+1 Some of us are old enough to remember when we didn't know we needed magnums to shoot elk and bear.

12 July 2019, 07:41

reddy375

35 Whelen.

375 H&H is superior and definitely better for buff etc, but the whelen is truly a super cartridge. I just flattened a Russian brown bear at 200 yards with it.

12 July 2019, 08:28

Ray Alaska

.338 for me in Alaska.

12 July 2019, 08:38

chuck375

If I lived in Alaska I'd take my 7 1/2 lb REM XCR II in 375 Weatherby. A 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps is a nice beutiful thing. The rifle below it is my 50 year old BDL in 270 I bought new in the late 60s.

12 July 2019, 10:18

sep

quote:
Originally posted by Ray Alaska:
.338 for me in Alaska.

+1 I can hunt everything in Alaska with one bullet...225 Grain TTSX.

My number two pick for Alaska and my number one pick for the lower 48 would be the 30-06 but with several different bullet weights based on the game I hunted.

12 July 2019, 11:27

Cougarz

quote:
Originally posted by reddy375:
35 Whelen.

375 H&H is superior and definitely better for buff etc, but the whelen is truly a super cartridge. I just flattened a Russian brown bear at 200 yards with it.

Pictures?

13 July 2019, 05:51

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
If I lived in Alaska I'd take my 7 1/2 lb REM XCR II in 375 Weatherby. A 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps is a nice beutiful thing. The rifle below it is my 50 year old BDL in 270 I bought new in the late 60s.

Not a bad idea, but to me the old .375H&H is about perfect if what you want is to use the heavier bullets for it. Most hunters up here use rifle calibers from the .270 to the .338WM because these make more of "all-around" hunting rifles. For example, if weight is not a factor in forested areas (coastal, or the interior), then you can go as big as you like. But if you want to hunt caribou in the wide open areas of the interior and have to walk a lot, you better consider rifle weight

The .7mm magnum is popular too, and the .375H&H, although from the .300WM and up ammo can be expensive.

13 July 2019, 05:56

Ray Alaska

quote:
Originally posted by sep:
quote:
Originally posted by Ray Alaska:
.338 for me in Alaska.

+1 I can hunt everything in Alaska with one bullet...225 Grain TTSX.

My number two pick for Alaska and my number one pick for the lower 48 would be the 30-06 but with several different bullet weights based on the game I hunted.

Agree. Also most of us probably have a .270 or .30-06 around the house, right? In September I load my .338 with ammo that have the 225-grain TTSX

13 July 2019, 07:25

waterrat

There are a lot of great medium bores out there,,my choice is a .35 that shoot a 225 NP@ 2750fps and a 280 SAF @2500fps. Those 2 bullets and a user friendly rifle are all you need for Alaska anyway.

13 July 2019, 07:36

LHeym500

You asked what was the best as opposed to favorite. Best I vote for the 375 HH.

Reasons:
Ammo everywhere,

History (Africa, Alaska, the Pre64 Winchester),

Rifle availablity (Cz, Winchester, Remington, Montana, Kimber in Big factory rifles to whatever you like custom),

Legal for all game everywhere(338 will do the same lifting, but not legal everywhere ie Tanzima and I think Namibia and Botswana for buff and elephant),

Trajectory useful similar to a 30/06 with 180 bullets can use a more general purpose scope,

Big enough without being too big, (recoil not distracting especially in 8 plus pound rifle no distraction toma 338magnum maybe less compared to the voluminous 338),

Moderate rifle weight plus or minus 8 pounds.

Favorite is the 375 Ruger. I just love that case. Same as above maybe a little less available of ammo and rifles, but plenty of ammo her in KY.

13 July 2019, 08:15

thecanadian

7mm-08 for all Wisconsin has to offer. Everything else is just adding more powder, weight, and recoil to achieve the same results.

To answer the OP though, I would have to go with the 35 whelen. It is the 30-06 case perfected.