The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles why not a 700?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
son is thinking about a 700 tactical 5R heavy bbl 20" in 308 and he keeps hearing that anything from remington is junk. are they? why? | ||
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One of Us |
A friend of mine has that very rifle and it shoots 3 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yds with factory ammo. I just pulled up the pic he sent me to verify. He loves his. He did tweak the trigger a bit but that is all. God Bless, Louis | |||
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I prefer Mausers and controlled feed actions, but the Remington 700 has to be one of the most popular actions out there. Period! And they have a reputation for stellar accuracy. "Junk" would have a real difficult time achieving that status. I dont own one, but I wouldnt hesitate to. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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| one of us |
I own 2-700,s like them a lot, I don't regret buying them | |||
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i have owned 3 over the years including a brothers and liked em. but my son and i have read about remington being bought out and moved and the smiths quitting ec etc and all that boiled down to crappy guns. i guess for a purist that would matter and to a collector too but all he wants is a accurate quality rifle he can afford. | |||
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I think you would get great accuracy. I think you might need a little smoothing out but you will have a good stock action and barrel, in a great cartridge. I have heard of magazine followers needing replaced but that's easy, I would like one myself...tj3006 | |||
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I have an old one in 243, 3 buddy's have the PSS, SPS, PPS :-) what ever, in 308 all will shoot quarter size groups. | |||
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| One of Us |
Gun snobs....... I have a vault full of 700s, they are fine rifles. All the CRF people amaze me really.......our US Marines don't think CRF is that important. I think it would be a rare occasion that one would need to cycle a rifle held upside down.....but if that's what one needs well...... 700 actions are stiff. They have one of the fastest lock times. Their extractors are strong enough to rip the rim off a stuck case. And they are copied by more custom action builders than any other action out there. I really love how people call 700s junk and go pay more money for a cz knowing they will have to send it to a Smith to get it to perform as intended. . | |||
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are we talking the older rems or the newer ones here? | |||
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| One of Us |
how does it stack up against a Tikka T3X CTR? | |||
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| one of us |
I have gone the custom action route lately, but all of my non-custom action guns are 700s except for one M70. Mausers flex, have terrible lock times, and the extraction of a CRF is not perfect: that "massive" claw extractor will pop off the rim if it can't pull it out. To your point, the 700 will pull it out or rip the rim off trying. 700s are great, but mine have all needed tweaking. Savages are accurate out of the box, at least the few I have owned/shot. | |||
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One of Us |
Nice rifles. But never liked the 2 piece design brazed on bolt handle weak point. Had a very lovely CDL. Fine balance and accurate. Was going to get an aftermarket 1 piece bolt but decided that wasn't worth the cost and sold the rifle. Made a nice profit.  | |||
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Was the brazed on bolt handle always the design or did that happen at some point? I have a late 60s BDL in 270 and it's still my favorite rifle, still shoots nickel sized groups never any issues with it. I also have an XCR II I bought in 2011 that needed some work done right out of the box but is a fine rifle now. I did have my gunsmith weld the bolt handle on the XCR II Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| one of us |
If your son likes the features on the 700 then no reason not to buy it. I have three of them all of recent manufacture. I purchased reduced power springs from "Ernie the Gunsmith" on line to replace the factory springs in two of the Xmark Pro triggers. The third one wouldn't adjust light enough with the spring so I installed a Timney. We are living in a golden age of firearms and ammunition manufacturing. After buying and selling quite a few rifles, I have finally come to the conclusion you should buy a firearm based on its features. In this day and age, accuracy will most likely follow. | |||
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I have one of the 700's 5R MilSpec barrel but mine is 24" and it will put all my handloads in one ragged hole at 100. If I do my job, it just shoots extremely well. One of the most accurate rifles I own and is the easiest barrel I own to clean. Guns and hunting | |||
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I have heard all the stories about Remington 700 issues for years and haven’t owned one for a long time. Problems do occur, so gunsmith’s tell me. Extractors sometimes break, I’m told. How often I don’t know. There’s the trigger recalls Remington has done. Must be something to that to do a recall. Then there’s the bolt handle brazing issue, with the handles coming off if you have to beat on them. Don’t know how often that happens either. Haven’t seen it myself. The flat earth guys often support their ideas on the same basis, meaning they haven’t personally seen a round earth, and I haven’t been in space myself, so maybe they’re right. So, I was in the market for a .223 bolt gun with a fast twist to shoot gongs at 400 yds. I didn’t want all those push feed problems and poor Remington QC. So I bought a CZ 527 varmit model. The cycling is a bit rough, but not quite so much as most Ruger 77 Hawkeye rifles. I have one of those, cause they don’t have all of those terrible design flaws. Getting it right has been a long journey, but that’s a story for another thread (posted here on AR previously). So back to the CZ. The reason I wanted a 223 was to be able to buy relatively inexpensive factory ammo and just go shooting. But, the best factory ammo so far has been Hornady match stuff, which will barely hold a minute of angle. And it’s not that cheap either. Most all other store bought ammo shoots a couple MOA or worse. Some of it is much worse. Shouldn’t be too surprised, it’s cheap stuff for the AR blast-off boys who don’t seem to care if they hit anything or not, so long as they make a lot of noise. At least the CZ is contolled feed! So that’s good. Turns out that all rounds have to be fed from the clip cause that claw extractor won’t snap over a cartridge’s rim. No biggie, the clip holds five rounds. Turns out that it won’t feed the first two rounds if fully loaded though. Somehow the spring tension on those first two is just too much, or the angle is not just right for the rim to slide under the extractor. No problem; if I only load three it feeds alright. Guess handloading’s unavoidable on this one. Ok. I’ll handload. Well, handloads shoot a little better. Pretty consistently just under a MOA for five shots. But it is a heavy barrel varmit model with a set trigger. Glass bedded it, not much difference. Good enough? Maybe for practical purposes, or for shooting porpoises, or for gongs, but not enough to be interesting in the Townsend Whelen sense of interesting. At least for me. But it is controlled feed, so that’s good, right? | |||
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Folks love to say the Mauser has been around over 100 years and hasn't been improved on since. The basic Mauser action has not appeared at the top of any competitive shooting circle in what...60 or 70 years? It is a good action; I own several. But if I am looking for an accurate rifle and you offer me a 700 or a Mauser, I am taking the 700. But if I had a choice and it has to be factory, I am taking a Savage. | |||
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fair enough. which savage? not a tikka? | |||
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Remingtons are not junk. Bad factory rifle these days are the rare exception not the rule given the number of rifles produced. IMHO, many factory malfunction gets exaggerated by a factor of 10 so people can support there pre-conceived notions. For example, someone told me that their friend in the military personally told them that he had 2 Remington 700s seize up on him and that he kicked the factory bolt handle off with his boot trying to open them. Look at at the position of a Remington 700 bolt handle and tell me how someone using their boot could accomplish striking only that small target of the underside of the bolt knob given how close it is to the stock. If your son wants 20" HB tactical he should get it and go buy a box or two of Federal Gold Medal NM 168s and he will likely be amazed at how accurate it is out of the box. The sole purpose of rifle is to please its owner. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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only bad advice there is to go buy a coupla boxes of factory ammo. neither boys know what a box of factory ammo even looks like. now a plastic box of ammo w/used brass with writing all over the outside in sharpie? that they know! | |||
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john c, My point in buying the federal gold medal nat'l match is that it a good "control" round for accuracy testing. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| one of us |
John, I think 700's are still great rifles despite being purchased by the holding company that's bled out some of the nicer features like good wood, etc from Remington and Marlin and the other acquired companies. I think Tikkas are great also. But the Tikka magazines are not great. They are flimsy and they cost an amazing amount to replace. There's a lot of plastic in the bottom metal that I don't think will last over time. I think the 700 has less plastic and will last forever. The Tikka will be lighter. Both will likely be accurate. | |||
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One of Us |
The brazed on bolt handle has been a design feature of the 700 since day one. Yes, they will definitely feed upside down. A good flint lock will also fire upside down but that is another story. The only reason the CRF was invented by Mauser was so that the new soldier with limited training did not double feed and jam it. Not because it was more reliable in extraction. Mauser was exclusively making rifles for the Ottoman Empire at that time. Which is why pre WW1 military Mausers are not made by Mauser except those for Turkey. It is not a problem for the current, US Army, as we train our soldiers how to correctly operate a bolt action rifle. Same goes for hunters. Learn how to correctly operate them and you do not need CRF. Like some other manufactured products, quality has suffered in the face of competition and declining sales. Look in any gun shop and tell me how many wooden stocks you see. Few, because of the cost. Younger guys like plastic, and cheap rifles. It ain't 1960 any more, or even 1980. Gone. | |||
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mike....hadn't thought of it that way. ur right. skl.....good infor. thanks i heard that the tikka mags cost around $100 each. thats crazy!! | |||
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dammitt!! i want a time machine! | |||
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| One of Us |
There are two issues being discussed: #1- Is the M700 design "good". and #2- Are current production M700s good. I have no information regarding the current production, but I can say that the basic design is good. My 700 AFL 308 was a 14th birthday present, made in 1962, the first year run. It has been all over North America and the only two times it had any problems were due to operator error. The extractor is a problem if the shooter doesn't completely turn the bolt handle down into battery. But since this isn't going to happen when firing the rifle, it is only a problem when trying to unload the rifle by running the cartridges through the chamber (as with a blind magazine rifle). | |||
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| One of Us |
LMAO, I am far from a "gun snob" JTex. Most of my rifles were built by yours truly out of old crappy pawn shop Mausers, previously "sporterized" or low cost, beat up milsurps with rusted barrels. So I take these old rotten rifles and breathe new life into them and end up with a nice, very solid, reliable tool for less $ than a late model 70. It is a rewarding hobby. My latest acquisition is a budget minded NIB T/C Venture. And you know what, I like it! Push feed, cheap ass flimsy stock, I dont care. It has a smooth action, good trigger and shoots very well. I also have a pf M-70. Get whatever suits you, that's what I do. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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| One of Us |
There are simply better options for that today. But I still like Mausers for a plethora of reasons that have nothing to do with competitive shooting. For instance, my Fathers go to deer rifle was an Oberndorf sporter, (that's one of MY reason's right there). I went through several other rifles that eventually developed annoying little issues, and sometimes bigger issues, and ultimately ended up parting with them. But Dads Mauser just kept on working good as ever. Same with the number of Mausers I now have. Once I get them to feed good after rechambering, no more issues. Period. They just work! And they can be made to shoot.. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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Agreed - spend $10 to get the Xmark trigger to 3ish lbs for hunting. Bolt handles falling off? I have around 10 or so 700's and have for the last 30 years and have never had a bolt handle fall or break off. Don't worry about it. "Pick out two!" - Moe Howard  | |||
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| Administrator |
I am not familiar with present Remington 700s. But, I have had, and still have, many of them. I have built dozens of rifles on this action, and I like it a lot. | |||
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| one of us |
The accuracy of the Model 700 has never been in dispute. However the bolt handles coming off under fire is real. Shortly after 7mm STW was released I imported the very first STW in a Sendero into South Africa ( it was the first because the licensing authorities in Pretoria did not have the caliber in their data base and had to create it ) That rifle was extremely accurate but later lost its bold handle while shooting. At my behest a good friend of mine bought one too and it was featured in an article on a hunt in Magnum magazine. During that hunt the rifles bolt came off after a shot during the hunt. I owned a Sendero in 25-06 and that was one of the most accurate guns I ever owned. | |||
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The quality of Sig Sauer pistols is great except for the batch of 50 the law enforcement agency I was with where 20 of the 50 had the wrong extractor. Ford F-150s suck look at the recalls. Any mfg process has quality issues from time to time. BTW - never go to the doctor either, look at all the people who die from medical mal-practice. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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well he bought a savage off GB so we'll see what happens. thanks for all the infor | |||
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They will feed upside down. Funny how people say Push Feed is for cheap guns. But the more common costly guns are Push Feeds. Sako, Weatherby, Blaser, Sauer, some Mauser type. Ruger is cheap and a CRF  | |||
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| One of Us |
If it were named correctly it would be called CRICMM for "Controlled Round I Changed My Mind" Cycle your CRF slowly and stop when the cartridge pops from the rails and is controlled by the claw extractor. You will find that the cartridge is anywhere from 1/3 to almost 1/2 of the way into the chamber; i.e, past the opeing of the ejection port and it's not going anywhere but into the chamber unless you pull back on the bolt handle. Then do it on a PF and you will find the same thing. As others have said Rem 700s do cycle upside down. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Both. I just really don't care for the new triggers a lot. They are adjustable but not as well as the Walker trigger. On my accuracy stuff I install Jewell triggers. . | |||
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I agree with you on the savages. I really dont like the trigger with that sheet metal sear. Jard makes a decent replacement.....I sure wish Jewell made a cartrige type trigger for Savage. I also ain't a fan of the barrel nut, every one I re-barrel gets threaded to a shoulder. . | |||
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My apologies Sir. I was speaking generically. I like custom Mausers, 1903s and 1917s all of those are my favorites. But they have a damned hard time keeping up with 700s for functionality and just can not keep up in accuracy. . | |||
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Wow. Here in Texas. Where the 700 is probably the most commonly used bolt rifle for hunting I have never once, heard a first hand account of a bolt handle coming off. . | |||
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I was looking at a friends 700 and when I started raising the bolt to make sure it was empty, it fired. Luckily it was in a safe direction. The owner would not accept that it malfunctioned and thought I had my finger on the trigger---it was not. I told another friend (now deceased) that was a fine gunsmith about the situation. He had experienced this but did say it was an easy fix. Can't damn all 700's because this one malfunctioned---but it did. | |||
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