I have a daughter that will be old enough to hunt next fall and I am thinking about putting her in for her once in a lifetime cow moose permit as it should be fairly simple to get her on one.

The problem, as many of you have faced, is that she is only 11, turning 12 just as the hunts get started. I want to get her used to shooting a gun capable of doing the job right, but not scare her away.

I noticed the the Handi-Rifle comes in a youth model in a 7mm-08 chambering (which I certainly don't consider overkill, but should be sufficient with proper bullet selection and placement).

I don't have any experience with these rifles so I am looking for experiences on the quality and accuracy of these rifles. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

The only problem I could see with it would be the weight of the rifle. She's 11 yrs old and will have to shoot it at some point. I don't believe the 7mm-08 is that bad to shoot, never shot one, but a 308 size case with at least a 150gr bullet, factory?, from that light a rifle might be overwhelming. If I were to try that, I'd sure go with the laminated wood stock for the extra weight. As for accuracy, I've only experience with one, a 223 a friend got. Isn't much to talk about but certainly accurate enough for moose at a reasonable range. I am not suggesting a 223 for ANY big game! I have read of a good number of them that are very accurate but usually from guy's that just can't leave a factory rifle alone!

Winnie: My experience with Handi-rifles is that they can in fact be rather barrel heavy. Combined with their rather heavy triggers, I don't think they make the best choice for a younger/newer shooter. I'd recommend you look for one of the light Remington bolt guns, one of the Rugers (even a No. 1) or a CZ. I suspect a 6.5X55 or a .260, a 7mm-08 or a 7X57 with premium bullet would do the trick. Don't overlook a .300 Savage, either: this neglected old round still carries the mail with surprising efficiency and is easy on the shoulder. And if your daughter should bag her once-in-a-lifetime moose with a nice old Model 99, she'll be proud of that classic for the rest of her days, while she might not be too proud of a Handi-rifle.

300winnie: Here is a link to the Graybeard Outdoors forum, which includes a forum that deals strictly with H&R/NEF Single Shot Rifles - a lot of the members there are real fanatics about their rifles and you can get a lot of good infomation (and opinions) there:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php

Personally I'd say get her a quality bolt gun she can use for the rest of her life, and just cut the stock down to fit.

If you want to get the Handi-rifle, I'd get it in .30-30, good for moose within the ranges she'd be capable of although the 7mm-08 wouldn't be a bad choice either with good bullet selection and shot placement which would apply to the .30-30 too. A little weight in the butt stock would balance it well and remove just a little of the kick in either caliber, which isn't bad to begin with. Zermel took his moose last year with his .257Roberts Ultra, so good shooting is the key, teach her!

Another caliber you might consider is the .357mag, how many moose have been killed with .357mag handguns!!

As for the triggers, for the last year or so, all new NEF/H&R triggers have been 3-4lbs out of the box, they've improved immensly from what was the standard a few years ago. With just a little honing using Perklo's instructions, a 2½-3lb trigger is easy to do, those instructions and other good stuff can be found at the Graybeard link above.

Tim

I bought my short, right handed, lefteye dominant wife a youth 243, and added a 44 mag barrel. The 243 barrel would hit a moose every time at 50 yards, 100 yards is pushing it on such a small target. I can shoot honest 12" groups! Even after an all expense paid (by me) trip back to the factory, lock-up is still poor with that barrel.

The 44 mag barrel is just fine. 3" 100 yard groups with no load development is good enough for what we want a 44 mag to do.

The rifle is easy for her to carry, and its ambidexterous.

The Handi rifle , youth model, in 7-08 should be perfect ,especially if you are a reloader. With practice she can become accustom to the trigger and all the features and just do a great job. You can reduce some of the loads with lighter bullets and still have an adequate moose killer at modest ranges. roger

If I were going to buy her a Handi-Rifle, it would be in .44 Mag, and I would check the trigger when the rifle arrived. My SB2 is a few years old, and I had the trigger honed to help it. I have to believe that a .44 in 240 grains of hard cast lead is plenty of medicine for a bull moose. Likewise, I wouldn't shoot one with a .30-30. There is too much at stake for a first time hunter; she doesn't need memories of losing a big bull moose the first time out...

As far as weight goes, they weigh just as much as a traditional bolt action rifle. The only real drawback is that they are a true single shot, and sometimes the ejectors stick. That can/could cause a real problem if the bull needed a followup shot...

Personally, I would take a look at one of the youth model bolt action rifles offered by Howa or Savage. Either of these can easily be fitted with an adult stock when she outgrows the youth stock and they are available in 7MM-08.

I have one in .223 the rifle doesn't feel barrel heavy to me but mine is only a 22" bull. I have had great accuracy out of mine after I realized the scope rail was shifting every few rounds. A little loctite and the rifle holds zero great. I have and still do have problems with the ejector on my rifle as well, I have a friends with rifles in .243 and .270 that have the same problem. That is the only down side I see to the rifle, who wants to carry a cleaning rod while hunting. My .223 has a case stick in it about every 100 rounds or so, I think my friends rifles stick about every 10-20 with the larger calibers.

last year my son shot a doe and a muley buck with his youth model 7mm-08 handi. this year he shot a nice 4 point muley with a .308 handi rifle. here is a post on the .308 handi

First of all, 300winnie stated that his daughter has a permit for a cow moose, not a bull, and since he's from Idaho, we're probably talking Shiras, the smallest of moose.

Second of all, the .30-30 has probably killed more moose in the north than all other calibers combined!

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,99...9.html#msg1098266309

As far as stuck cases, current production rifles come with mechanical extractors, so that's the last thing I'd be concerned about.

Even ejectors can be made to work well with a little care and forethought, I've not had a stuck case in several hundred rounds unless I worked up a load that was too hot, or forgot to wipe the chamber clean after cleaning at the range.

Of the 31 H&Rs that I own, only 3 are extractors, so I have plenty of experience with ejectors. If you still have problems after a good chamber polishing and tuning of the ejector, put a BB under the spring and polish the ejector housing and ejector, do the Zermel trick and put a little notch in the chamber edge to slip a knife tip in there to flick the spent case out, even those that I've had at the range were easy to remove, in fact, sometimes they pop out on their own while I was getting a rod, but the notch trick works well if needed and you don't need to carry a rod with ya! You can see the notch in the right side of the chamber of my .35 Remington Handi in the pic below.

I have 2 which are very very accurate...

but then again, they cost $199 to $209 around here.. and for $275.00 I can get a Stevens Model 200 repeater that is probably lighter, and multiple shot....the few extra bucks.. I'd go for the Stevens...

I can't speak from personal experience about the adequacy of a 7mm-08 for moose but the loading manuals and gun writers suggest it's probably adequate with proper bullet selection. The heavier 7mm bullets have tremendous sectional density and a premium controlled expansion bullet should penetrate very well. As others have said and you've probably read, the 7mm-08 is very easy on the shooter in terms of recoil.

As for whether a Handi in 7mm-08 will shoot, mine does. I bought one (not a youth model) last winter and as a winter project put an aftermarket stock and forearm on it (a kitchen table gunsmithing project that turned out pretty decent by my standards). At any rate, it shoots Hornady 139gr Interlocks just at 1". I'm still working up some Nosler 140gr Ballistic Tip and Accubond loads that I hope will do better when the velocities get right.

As for the Handi triggers, some are not good and some are very good. I found a retailer who had 3 of them in stock in 7mm-08 and compared trigger pulls and lock-up fit and picked the one I thought was best. I've had nothing done to the trigger and frankly it's better just like it is than the last 3 new factory bolt action rifles I've gotten (2 Remingtons and 1 Ruger). A gunsmith can almost always deal with a poor trigger pull for you.

As for quality, the Handi is an inexpensive rifle and can't be expected to have the fit & finish of a higher priced gun. And as you'll see if you browse through the Handi forums at Graybeard Outdoors, they apparently can be quirky. On the other hand, everything about mine has worked as advertised and I've had zero problems. The one I bought is now a companion to a number of quality bolt action centerfires (Ruger, Remington, Winchester, Sako) so I've got no inherent bias for them; I just thought it was a cool, inexpensive addition in a caliber I didn't have.

Good luck with your choice. -WSJ

I've had poor results with a .280 Rem. Handi-rifle I bought in 98'. It had a 6 1/4 lb trigger pull and failed to extract every 3rd round or so of green box 140g Rem ammo. Reloads were no better. I kept that gun in great shape as of being clean and what not as well. The only thing I could sat positive about it was that it was accurate with the heavy barrel. A huntin' buddy of mine got one in 04' in 243 Win. and it had extraction problems as well and a bad trigger pull. We both ended up trading them off for better rifles. No sense buying a rifle in my opinion if you're gonna put a bunch of work into it to make it reliable.

IMO since the stevens 200 came out there is little need to buy a handi-rifle, used to be the handi was all you could get in the $200 range. now if you look you should be able to find the stevens 200 for $260 or so, which is only a few bucks more than a handi, realize a gun is a life time investment, start out with something better in the beginning.

As for accuracy handis can be pretty good, I used to have one in 223, the only problem with the design is that its very foream pressure sensitive, if you hold the gun different the impact will change, if you set it on the bags at the range different impact will change, couple that with a less than great trigger even when its been worked, and you find there are several things working against good accuracy. There are compact by design and are easily broken down, but you still only get one shot out of a cheaply made gun, do it right to start with and buy her a real gun, the stevens comes in 7-08 too

quote:

I don't have any experience with these rifles so I am looking for experiences on the quality and accuracy of these rifles.

I bought one years ago in .223 Rem. I call it my cat gun. It is the only gun of mine that does not reside in a heated gun vault. It sits in the corner of my shop, or garage or on the farm tractor. I only paid $169.95 for it. It isn't much to look at; walnut stained hardwood(?) stock and rough machined exterior barrel. But it shoots feral cats, groundhogs and crows at 100 yards or better with an old Redfield Widefield 6X scope. Crop damage deer, too. But only headshots. I wanted a beater gun that I can knock around and not think twice about. Sometimes it only gets cleaned when I spy some rust starting to form. Like the old Timex watch advert, "It takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'." Never had any problem what-so-ever.

I recently sent back the action and stock(s) to have the factory fit a 16ga shotgun barrel to it. Total cost was less than $60 including shipping. I mounted a strain gage to it to test shotshell reloads. It extracts and ejects them just fine, too. So the handi-Rifle can be a switch barrel gun if you desire a different caliber down the road.

hey wrongtarget I come I don't have a 35rem handi-rifle? didn't know h & r ever had them. Did you convert a 357? if so how did it work out? I only have a couple of these guns, a 22 hornet and a 44mag converted to 444. the hornet is ok, but the 444 shoots like a target gun-----love it. bill439

quote:

First of all, 300winnie stated that his daughter has a permit for a cow moose, not a bull, and since he's from Idaho, we're probably talking Shiras, the smallest of moose.

Okay, I will grant you that. So we are talking about maybe 800# as opposed to 1K, maybe more...

Second of all, the .30-30 has probably killed more moose in the north than all other calibers combined!

And CERTAINLY all were taken by 12 year olds on their first hunt, right?

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,99...9.html#msg1098266309

As far as stuck cases, current production rifles come with mechanical extractors, so that's the last thing I'd be concerned about.

Even ejectors can be made to work well with a little care and forethought, I've not had a stuck case in several hundred rounds unless I worked up a load that was too hot, or forgot to wipe the chamber clean after cleaning at the range.

Of the 31 H&Rs that I own, only 3 are extractors, so I have plenty of experience with ejectors. If you still have problems after a good chamber polishing and tuning of the ejector, put a BB under the spring and polish the ejector housing and ejector, do the Zermel trick and put a little notch in the chamber edge to slip a knife tip in there to flick the spent case out, even those that I've had at the range were easy to remove, in fact, sometimes they pop out on their own while I was getting a rod, but the notch trick works well if needed and you don't need to carry a rod with ya! You can see the notch in the right side of the chamber of my .35 Remington Handi in the pic below.

Okay, let me see if I understand:

"Well, sweetheart, I guess she took a step about the time you fired. That, or maybe you were a little nervous. You hit her a little too far back. That's okay, just hurry and get the pocket knife out of your pocket and pry the shell out so you can reload. Maybe she won't run too far."

That is how I wish I had taught my offspring to respect the hunted, and to kill as cleanly as possible!

Sorry, wrongtarget, you and I will just have to agree to disagree. I like my Handi-Rifle, with its .30-30 barrel, but I'll be darned if I would hand it to a 12 year old on his/her first hunt. Too much can go wrong...

Bill, they didn't offer it, much to the disappointment of many, I had a .357Mag>Max rechambered by Wayne York of Oregunsmithing, it shoots 200gr Beartooth hard cast at 2140fps with MOA accuracy, and the 240gr Mt Baldys almost as good at ~1950fps. The only problem was making the rimmed ejector work with the rimless round, that took a little fitting with an ejector with a taller post, Wayne would have done it, but I did it myself since I had several ejectors from other rifles to choose from to see what fit and what didn't.

H&R will be re-releasing the 22" Handi in .444 Marlin early next year, hopefully it will be a 1:20" twist as cousin Marlin has in their levergun.

I considered having a .44mag rechambered to .444, but with the prevelence of overbored 44mag barrels and the slow 1:38" twist, I've held off, and now that H&R is gonna offer the .444 again, I'm waitng.

They will also offer a 20" barreled BC in .45 Colt, for the CAS boys, I assume!!

I have several rechamber and/or rebored H&Rs besides the .35Rem, .338-06 A-Square, .405 Winchester and .45-120 so far, still "need" more!!

Tim

wrongtarget, thanks for the info. I rechambered the 44 mag because I had a marlin lever in 44 mag. and also had a 444 chamber reamer. I am completly happy with the conversion- have shot groups at 50yds less than 1/2" with 4x scope using 240gr and 270gr bullets. Hope to try cast bullets soon.
I think the 357 max would be a good choice for the moose heh? thanks, bill 439

I don't blame ya Bill, I'd a done the same if I had the reamer, I've had several oportunities to buy used 44mag barrels, but passed on em, thought about gettin one and hand reaming it to .445Supermag too, even the overbore barrels shoot real well from all reports from fellas that have done it .

Did just buy a used .500S&W barrel tho, got a heck of a closeout deal on a new RCBS die set for $12.50 and 2 boxes of 350gr Hornadys for $20, figured I'd have some fun with it! There was a nice article by John Taffin in Guns magazine recently on the .500, it was a great read.

Tim

Ruger MKII Compact or Frontier in 7mm-08 is perfect for this application.

Don't overlook the flexibility of the T/C Encore rifles....you can easily get shorter length stocks for them as well. They've shot under an inch at 100 yds for me in both .223 and .300 Win Mag. I'm sure there is a 7-08 option that would do very nicely.

They cost more....

Cheers,

Dan