After almost 50 years of handloading and shooting, I acquired a nice Mod. 77, 7X57 Made in 1973, which by the way is the 1st 7MM I have ever owned.

A couple things that I have discovered, and maybe a little help from those more experienced than me with this cartridge are: it seems this rifle has a very long throat, I am not able to reach the lands with a 150 grain bullet. Also, it seems to be very finicky. So far the groups have not been much at all, maybe 2".

What'd you all have to say. Jerry

After reading a thread in the reloading section, I checked the twist, and it appears to be 10".

Jerry

You might check out the reloading forum topics. There is a regular flow of similar questions there.
I will related my experience briefly.

I have 2 7X57s. One a mint new 1895 Chilean Mauser in original conditon.
The other is a tang safety M77. With most light weight bullets the Mauser with no scope will out shoot the Ruger with a 3x9. The Ruger does not do well with lighter bullets especially with boat tails.
I once got a large batch of 7X57 stuff that had been traded in to a dealer. It included 140 gr Rem. ammo, 140 grn Hornady ammo, and 170 RN Federal.
The Rem and Hornady 140 ammo shot about like my 140 grain hand loads - groups were 2 to 2.5". The 170 RN Federal ammo made little groups of about 7/8" to 1". I later tried a variety of Hornady 170 RN and even old Herter's 170 RN bullets with the same results small groups. The powder I used was AA4350.

I have found that most factory 7x57 and 7x64 rifles are throated for 175gr bullets.

Hi Jerry,
I have the same rifle. I was wondering if you sanded off the pressure point at the end of the stock. I could not get this rifle to shoot with anythng lighter than the 160gr bullets. Here is a post I made a couple years ago with this rifle and 160 grain Accubonds which were excellant on game.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...281076831#6281076831

I have relaoded for this rifle a lot and if you require any further info, please let me know. And good shooting.

That rifle, like most older 7x57's, were meant to be shot using 175gr bullets. I would load up some 175's at a moderate velocity, and I bet that rifle will start shooting. Let us know how it goes.

Jerry,

I agree with the others that have had one of these older Ruger 77S in 7x57. Mine would not shot worth a damn with any light bullet. The old Remington round nose 175 gr though shot incredible well with 5 bullets in less than an inch.

Mark

I have a tang safety M77 in 7x57 that has shot poorly since US factory ammunition was switched from 175 gr to 140 gr bullets.

I am not a reloader and am limited to factory ammunition.

Has anyone used the Sellier & Bellot 173 gr loads?

I had a #1 that shot Hornady 140s all over but the blue box Federal 175s under an inch...of course I sold the rifle....dummy...

I have the same rifle(and one in 7mm Magnum, also); I use factory ammo and it really does favor the heavy bullets.

I have the same vintage #1 in 7x57 that has never shot well. It has a very long throat and the neck section of the chamber is rather generous in dia. As I understand it Ruger outsourced their barrels at that time and the quality was not good. About the best accuracy I have gotten so far has been with some old 150 gr. X bullets.
C.G.B.

My two Mod. 98 scouts have 7x57 19" replacement military barrels that also do their best with 175 grain bullets.Long throat. roger

It's a combination of the long throat and the very sloppy chamber dimension especially the neck portion, neither of which are conductive to real good accuracy. This was supposedly changed by SAAMI somewhere in the 90's to tighter specs and slightly shorter throat.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Big Bullet, I have not sanded the forestock, and most likely won't. I have other Ruger 77'S and have done that with good results as you mentioned. I want to keep this one, unmessed with, as I may send it down the road if I can't get it to shoot what I want. funny thing is, when I got this rifle, which was virtually unfired, I also had the choice of a New Remington 700, in 7mm Express. I really would have rather had the Remington because of the caliber, but it was of a configueration I just didn't like, and the Ruger was just an "R" Model which appealed to me more. One thing I can say now, I have little patience to "screw around" with a rifle. I send them down the road if they are a hassel. I'll get some heavy bullets as you all suggest, and if it'll shoot an inch, I'll be happy, and I'll let you all know.

Thanks

Jerry

Own a 77 Ruger tang safety in 7x57. However, it was orginally a .270, but had a Midway A&B, now Green Mountain, heavy barrel installed.

For me, 139 gr Hornady SST bullets shoot quite well when I have the cannuleur about 1/4" above neck of brass.

Can't get same accuracy with 154 gr SST bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Thanks for all the replies guys. Big Bullet, I have not sanded the forestock, and most likely won't. I have other Ruger 77'S and have done that with good results as you mentioned. I want to keep this one, unmessed with, as I may send it down the road if I can't get it to shoot what I want. funny thing is, when I got this rifle, which was virtually unfired, I also had the choice of a New Remington 700, in 7mm Express. I really would have rather had the Remington because of the caliber, but it was of a configueration I just didn't like, and the Ruger was just an "R" Model which appealed to me more. One thing I can say now, I have little patience to "screw around" with a rifle. I send them down the road if they are a hassel. I'll get some heavy bullets as you all suggest, and if it'll shoot an inch, I'll be happy, and I'll let you all know.

Thanks

Jerry

If that gun has a nice piece of wood, as most did back then, and you're not willing to invest in time to get the load the way you want it, keep me in mind. I would consider taking it off your hands.

Jerry, I have sanded the forend on nearly all my Rugers. Especially if I see verticle stringing in the shot pattern. I also bed these rifles at the recoil lug and receiver.

Secondly, I have found the 156gr Hornandy RN bullets shoot well also. I am currently away, but if interested I will confirm that the loads with 160gr Accubonds are loaded to 3.100"

Shot it yesterday, and the best result so far, was with 45 Grains of H380 and a 150 Ballistic tip @ 2709FPS. Group right around an inch, which went from left to right on the target. No stringing so far. I got some 175 Grain Interlocks from a buddy, and I will try those with IMR4350, and see what happens. Let you know, and if you have a load recommendation, I'll be glad to try it. I really am in a conondrum with this rifle, it must be the caliber. I have a bunch of rifles, that will "better" this one with just about any bullet/powder combo I choose. So far I don't see the alure of the 7X57.

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry,

If you cannot make peace with this rifle, please give me an opportunity for you to send it up to Montana.

Trophy-Wife really has a soft-spot for tang-safety Rugers.

All the best,
Jeff

Good luck Jerry. Sounds like you are finding some useful loads. I too had a 77 of that vintage about 40 years ago. I could not get it to shoot better than 2 - 2 1/2 inches or worse, but did not try heavier bullets. I got rid of the rifle, and have heard rumors that Ruger was using a subcontractor for some of its barrels in this period, and that they were not the best. About 15 years ago I briefly owned a No. 1 in 7X57 and it shot 154-grain Hornadys very, very well.

Mine shot well with factory Norma 150gr ammo or with IMR 4350 and 154 gr Hornadys. It also had a long throat. It seemed to like bullets that were a semi pointed spitzer design versus sleek looking, plastic tips BT types.

Jerry,

It's not the caliber. It's a combination of sloppy chamber dimensions and the long throat originally designed for the long heavy bullets. If a chamber has a particularly large neck area (in addition to the body) the bullet cannot start into the bore straight because the cartridge is laying on the bottom of the chamber in the firing position and the bullet having to point "up" to the bore. I'd try a couple of things before I gave up on the rifle. You want to be able to have brass with a thicker neck. Try finding some 30-06 military cases, or even commercial with thick necks and size these down to 7x57 and trim to the correct length. Next you need to find out when these are loaded with a .284 diameter bullet that they have enough clearance for the neck to expand and release the bullet upon firing. So you need to load a dummy round and mic the neck to find out what your diameter is. Next you need to measure the neck diameter in the chamber. Some match shooters have that clearance as tight as .0005 inch or tighter. I don't believe you find yourself neck turning those 06 necks. 7x57 chambers are very generous. After you have established case/neck fit you need to fire them for fully form them. After that I would just neck size them and load them again and see if you have an improvement.

I've owned quite a few 7x57's and two were exceptions shooters. One was an Interarms Mark X Mannlicher Schoenauer style carbine and the other was a post 64 Model 70 Winchesters Featherweight. I did have to glass bed the Winchester because it had that terrible what I call semi soft silicone type bedding compound in the lug area.

If after all this if you do it and it still shoots terrible I'm leaning to a not so good barrel.

I have the same gun. Mine is a tac driver with about anything.
An easier method of lining the cartridge up in the chamber is to simply size the fired case down just to where the the last couple of thousands of the neck remains unsized. This leaves a very tiny bit of the neck right at the junction of the shoulder a bit larger. This creates a slight crush fit when chambered, and aligns the cartridge in the center, up-down, back-forth, in the chamber.
Experiment with sizing down with neck lube which makes it easier to see just where the sizing ends on the neck.
Easy deal! Good luck.

DWight

That is good for a tighter chamber, however I'm afraid with a really sloppy 7x57 chamber (and not saying every one of them are) it's not enough.

Interesting stuff. I have been using sized and necked 06 military cases, actually just on a lark. Interesting others are doing this also. I haven't measured the outside of the fired cases yet, and compared them to sized and loaded ones, but I will, then I'll post the results.. As I said intersting conversation I appreciate the comments.

Jerry

Here's what the micrometer showed as to the neck. Sized case .313, Fired case .322, and Loaded case .314. That's .009 in neck clearence, pretty loose I'd say.

Jerry

Yes that is pretty loose and don't forget with a fired case you have spring back so that .009 is even a little larger.

I just started shooting cast again in my 7x55. I'm using a 150 grain Lyman bullet. I used thick cases. My first outing I got an inch group at 100 yards. Those thick cases make a big difference especially in cast shooting. Jacketed is a little more forgiving as the bullet is much harder and can align itself some.

For the heck of it take some 270 or 06 cases and form them into 7x57 and try them and see if you get any improvement at all.

Guys: This ought to really get you 7X57 Shooters. I got my hands on some Hornady 170 grain Interlocks the other day, and loaded them with IMR4350. I seated some of the buulets on the cannalure and some others .20 off the lands. I could actually reach the lands with the long bullet. The rifle hated them and this load, groups were so large, that if I told you their exact size you wouldn't believe me, LOL! Velocity was 2550 to 2600fps. It did shoot some Sierra 160'S and got some 1.5" groups. So far the best I have gotten with this rifle is with 150 Ballistic Tips and H380 powder, right at 1" or a little more. Since it dosen't seem to like the heavier bullets, I am going to try the 140 and 150 Ballistic Tips and see what happens.

Jerry

You might want to consider Barnes TSXs as they (usually) need a 40-60 thou jump for best accuracy. My No. 1a 7x57 also has a 175 gr throat (and a pinweight barrel 22") but it will hold 5 in 1 MOA with 140 TSXs. "Having" to seat them way out makes more room for powder that whups any 7mm08.
"The shorter the barrel the faster the powder" so I skip 4350 in that 22" bbl. 2800 with med fast burners is possible at 50K CUP which is
"moderate " in a No 1.

Jerry it may be that rifle has a too slow of twist for the really long bullets. I'll look in my books and try find out what it is just to know.

I believe the twist on that older Ruger is 1 in 9 1/2 inches. Although not real fast you have to remember that the original 7x57's used something in the neighborhood of 1 in 8 3/4 inches. Winchester used a 1 in 10 and FN used a 1 in 9. Just may be that your Ruger barrel with it's 1 in 9 1/2 inch twist doesn't like the longer heavier bullets. You've pointed out your best groups were with much lighter shorter bullets.

I believe the twist is 9.5, I measured it some time ago. Shooting tomorrow morning, and I'll let you all know the results.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Guys: This ought to really get you 7X57 Shooters. I got my hands on some Hornady 170 grain Interlocks the other day, and loaded them with IMR4350. I seated some of the buulets on the cannalure and some others .20 off the lands. I could actually reach the lands with the long bullet. The rifle hated them and this load, groups were so large, that if I told you their exact size you wouldn't believe me, LOL! Velocity was 2550 to 2600fps. It did shoot some Sierra 160'S and got some 1.5" groups. So far the best I have gotten with this rifle is with 150 Ballistic Tips and H380 powder, right at 1" or a little more. Since it dosen't seem to like the heavier bullets, I am going to try the 140 and 150 Ballistic Tips and see what happens.

Jerry

My benchrest buddy loaded me some .270 Winchesters at .002 to .004 off the lands. .20 sounds like too much jump. Have you measured the case neck and shoulder before and after to check for a sloppy chamber? If so, I came up with a fix for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Guys: This ought to really get you 7X57 Shooters. I got my hands on some Hornady 170 grain Interlocks the other day, and loaded them with IMR4350. I seated some of the buulets on the cannalure and some others .20 off the lands. I could actually reach the lands with the long bullet. The rifle hated them and this load, groups were so large, that if I told you their exact size you wouldn't believe me, LOL! Velocity was 2550 to 2600fps. It did shoot some Sierra 160'S and got some 1.5" groups. So far the best I have gotten with this rifle is with 150 Ballistic Tips and H380 powder, right at 1" or a little more. Since it dosen't seem to like the heavier bullets, I am going to try the 140 and 150 Ballistic Tips and see what happens.

Jerry

A bit more advice: Take your best bullet and powder and load 3 rounds with 1 more grain of powder, then 1 more grain for 3 rounds, 3 more, 3 more. You might soon hit the hot spot. Worked for me. Have fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Here's what the micrometer showed as to the neck. Sized case .313, Fired case .322, and Loaded case .314. That's .009 in neck clearence, pretty loose I'd say.

Jerry

I just saw this post Jerry. My fix for that is only size your case about 2/3 of the way leaving some of the bulge. This will keep the case centered in the chamber and you will see a better group.

I fooled and fooled with my early 1980's #1 in 7x57 to get it to shoot. I had to have a Hicks Accurizer installed. I then found that the best bullet for that rifle was the Hornady 175 round nose and 51 grains of RL-22. Bullet is seated out into the next zipcode. Boy that thing has a long throat. Really shoots well. I got the RL-22 load from a speer manual, but be sure to check it, as I am not sitting in front of the manual. Great 200 yard white tail gun.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Here's what the micrometer showed as to the neck. Sized case .313, Fired case .322, and Loaded case .314. That's .009 in neck clearence, pretty loose I'd say.

Jerry

I just saw this post Jerry. My fix for that is only size your case about 2/3 of the way leaving some of the bulge. This will keep the case centered in the chamber and you will see a better group.

That's true that will help, but some of the problem is that when the neck expands and the neck area of the chamber is fat, it leaves the rear of the bullet hanging there and able to wiggle and possibly cause it not to enter the bore straight. If there is minimum clearance the rear of the bullet can't move much out of alignment. Some of my competition shooting friends have that clearance set at .0005 inch and even tighter. These are custom rifle with custom ground reamers. Neck sizing only was mentioned too and that would basically accomplish the same thing as your method. Many call your method partial sizing.

Custom Bolt: I like your suggestion, and I'll do it with the next series of loads. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I have been working the loads up with 140/150 Ballistic Tips, at .5 grain increments. The hotter the loads, the better they seem to group. I had a couple this morning 1" to 1.25". Right now I am using H380, and I am about 1.5 grains over max. No signs of pressure on the primer, or any bolt click yet. I am sticking with H380 for now, as it has shown, so far, the best groups.

Jerry

I have two tang safety 7x57's, both with the very long throats.
Mine do best with very heavy loads of IMR 4350 and sierra 160 or 175's, although the old nosler SB 150's are very close. That long throat lets you up the powder charge without dangerous pressures I've found. I put my older 7x57 on a strain guage ( you have to polish the blue off) and the velocities with 150's would crowd 3000 fps when loaded to 243-270 pressure limits.

I have been a 7x57 fan for many years, and first of all having a long throat is a real plus as you can seat bullets way out and use H414 powder and duplicate a 280 or even a 7 mag factory load but not a 7 mag handload.

I am not sure but perhaps you have a short magazine and that will not match a long throat. You need a 30-06 length magazine and thats an esay fix if its a problem..

With those bullets seated only .284 in the case you can go well beyond book max with H414 as those loads are taking into consideration the many mod. 95 and 96 and other weak actions floating around out there..Some books list for Ruger no. 1 only 7x57 loads and you can use those in your rifle. Starting with book max loads of H414 carefully work your way up to max and you will be able to go a long ways but only with the long throat and 06 magazine.

Do not do this with a standard box and short throated gun. The long throat and long magazine such as the Brno mod. 21 and 22 and some custom rifles is, in effect, the same as blowing out the shoulder and improving the caliber.

With a 1x10 twist, which isn't bad at all, you will probably find accuracty has increased with the additional velocity. All of my 7x57s have been so set up and all shot extremely well, even with the wonderful 130 gr. Speer, an awesome deer and antelope bullet that has to jump to second base before it finds the rifleings, or the 175 gr. Noslers that I prefer on elk. I always set the throat to take a 160 gr. Barnes X seated .284, this seems to be the best option for all bullet weights and accuracy for whatever reason.