quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:

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Originally posted by custombolt:

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Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Here's what the micrometer showed as to the neck. Sized case .313, Fired case .322, and Loaded case .314. That's .009 in neck clearence, pretty loose I'd say.

Jerry

I just saw this post Jerry. My fix for that is only size your case about 2/3 of the way leaving some of the bulge. This will keep the case centered in the chamber and you will see a better group.

That's true that will help, but some of the problem is that when the neck expands and the neck area of the chamber is fat, it leaves the rear of the bullet hanging there and able to wiggle and possibly cause it not to enter the bore straight. If there is minimum clearance the rear of the bullet can't move much out of alignment. Some of my competition shooting friends have that clearance set at .0005 inch and even tighter. These are custom rifle with custom ground reamers. Neck sizing only was mentioned too and that would basically accomplish the same thing as your method. Many call your method partial sizing.

I think the wiggle (essentially harmonic distortion) you mentioned sounds reasonable. For your theory to be true the bullet would have to hesitate while the case expansion occurs. I think by the time the case is expanded, the bullet is already seated in the lands. Keep in mind that the bullet is aligned perfectly with the center of the bore so there is now little resistance. My groups improved substantially to the tune of 1/2" @100 yards after the partial sizing so it must have reduced the distortion since no other changes were made.

Going shooting tomorrow. I have increrased the powder charges, and I let you all know the results.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Going shooting tomorrow. I have increrased the powder charges, and I let you all know the results.

Jerry

Jerry, Do you plan on running a dry bronze brush through the barrel in between groups? Have fun with it.

Here's Saturdays results, although somewhat meager, it got pretty hot so after 3 groups I quit for the day. With the 140's and H380, I was able to get over 2800fps. The 2 groups I shot were, get this 2 in one hole, and the next several inches away. Now the 2 in one hole were not necessarily consecutive shots. The 150 Grains were around 2778, with the same results. No pressure signs even in this heat, and the velocities are as fast as I need. Now if I can get a decent 3 shot group?????


Jerry

My tang safety does the same thing. Two close or touching and one out to two inches away. I have fought it for over two years and evan had Ruger rebarrel it. It has been bedded and pillar bedded-still not consistant. Guess I need Wayne at AHR to build a good one for me.

Don

Thanks for the reply Don. Nice to know I am not just a "nutt" with a unique problem. If I can get the 1st 2 to touch, I'll be happy with it and go hunting. Don't need or probably won't get to take 3 shots on game anyway.

Regards

Jerry

Went out again today, and I still haven't found a sweet spot. I can get 2 in or near the same hole, and then the 3rd inches away. No loose screws etc. A real head scratcher. I have tried almost all your suggestions, and the results are the same. For hunting I suppose it'll be fine, but I still hope I can find something it'll like.


Jerry

Jerry. How did you end up sizing the cases? Partiallly? Whatever, you've come a long way. First shot counts the most.. CB

I am now partially resizing the cases, which leaves a little buldge, that we hope centers the case better. An interesting issue came up the other day, with a 150 Grain Ballistic Tip, and using IMR4350, the powder was compressed so hard, becuase of the length of the bullet, after one load I pulled the bullet and decided against that combo. I am going to try some 150 grain Remington SP'S and see if that works.

Jerry

Jerry, Excellent choice! A centered case is going to make a huge difference! I'm not sure if compressed powder is a risk. However, a fully filled case is the ultimate. I strongly recommend that you do not change bullets now! Your bullets and powder LIKE this gun.....Just in case you haven't tried this one more step, SET bullet jump, which could put less pressure on your powder. Seat a bullet out a bit longer than normal in an empty & unprimed case. Chamber it and close the bolt. Take this "zero-clearance" seated round & measure the overall length tip to base and subtract about .010 or as little as .005". Or if your seating die has a micrometer on the top, let the bullet seating die do the work. Back off the die micrometer for plenty of clearance. Install the dummy and turn the micro down to it gets against. Add .005". Whichever jump you choose, this is ultimately where you need your overall length of all your reloads to be. Setting a precise bullet jump is like getting FREE accuracy or nearly so. Since you said the throat is very long in this rifle, make sure this dummy will cycle at this length, push the ultimately sized dummy down into the magazine and check for proper chambering. CHECK A RELOADING MANUAL TO MAKE SURE THIS LENGTH IS SAFE. You are so close! Size your cases and set bullet jump and nothing else. Then shoot 3 rounds on a clean barrel, let the barrel cool for 15 minutes. DO NOT CHANGE THE SCOPE SETTINGS. Shoot 3 more. Have fun. CB

Thanks Custombolt, but you recite my exact procedure when ever I start to load for a rifle I have just acquired. In this case, you can't get to the throat to find the lands. Like I said before, I have many other rifles, that will better this one on every count. If it won't put three near each other around at least 1.5", rather than mess with a semi-collectable rifle, it'll go down the road. I am almost there, as the screwing around and wasting bullets and powder and my experience, is about over. Hell, I have a Model 23 Savage in 32-20, that shoots better groups than this one.

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry I don't blame you for the way you feel on wasting bullets, primers, and powder, which are in shortage at the moment and expensive. You have an older Ruger. Possible two things wrong with it and the one is for sure. The sure one is it has the old "sloppy" chamber with that big freebore for the big heavy long bullets. The other one is back in the earlier days Ruger wasn't noted as making a good rifle barrel. They put out a lot of bad barrels in fact. Sounds you got the combination of both problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Thanks Custombolt, but you recite my exact procedure when ever I start to load for a rifle I have just acquired. In this case, you can't get to the throat to find the lands.

Jerry, I had no clue the throat was that deep in outer space that you couldn't even get to it with a long-seated bullet. The partially fire-formed case will improve things for certain. But, the long throat is a pot hole in the road. Thanks for putting this on AR. I hope you at least break even on the rifle. CB

Thanks Custombolt. It is a "nice" rifle. I really don't know why I wanted to fool around with this one, except, it is an early Ruger, and I thought I might like the 7X57. Oh well, no big deal. Now for a story: back in the late 60's the only high power rifle I owned was a Model 99 Savage in 300 Savage. Nice rifle, but I wanted a little more performance. So I went to Old Uncle Hans, who was the German National Rifle & Pistol Champion of 1960, and asked for his suggestion. The 1st thing out of his mouth was, a 7 X64. He said it was the most popular all around cartridge in Germany. The next thing out of his mouth, was get a 270, cause you won't be able to get 7X64 brass or ammo here. So I went for the 270, and it has been my favorite, since then. I never really needed a 7MM as the 6.5's and 270's I owned, plus a bunch of 30's and above never gave me the chance, till this one came along. 7MM just never fit right for me. There's my story I hope you find it interesting.

Jerry

Get some factory loaded Privi 173 gr ammo. It's a semi-point and shoots MOA in both my 7x57 No. 1 and tang safe 77. The 140 TSX also does well as Barnes like a "jump".
The advantage of the No.1 is that you can seat out much farther than in the 77.

From ballistic media testing, I think the factory 173 Privi will take any game in the lower 48 within 250 yards.

The PRVI recommendation is good. I would also try the Barnes TSX in a 175gr since it is mandatorily longer and may match your rifle.

Try that bullet, and adjust your powder, not your bullet. The long throat demands a heavy bullet. Do your physics.

Find the optimal bullet weight (which in this rifle is 175gr) and then work with powder types and charges to find the optimal load.

If you can't find it, let me know and I'm sure we can work out a trade/purchase deal.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Thanks Custombolt. It is a "nice" rifle. I really don't know why I wanted to fool around with this one, except, it is an early Ruger, and I thought I might like the 7X57. Oh well, no big deal. Now for a story: back in the late 60's the only high power rifle I owned was a Model 99 Savage in 300 Savage. Nice rifle, but I wanted a little more performance. So I went to Old Uncle Hans, who was the German National Rifle & Pistol Champion of 1960, and asked for his suggestion. The 1st thing out of his mouth was, a 7 X64. He said it was the most popular all around cartridge in Germany. The next thing out of his mouth, was get a 270, cause you won't be able to get 7X64 brass or ammo here. So I went for the 270, and it has been my favorite, since then. I never really needed a 7MM as the 6.5's and 270's I owned, plus a bunch of 30's and above never gave me the chance, till this one came along. 7MM just never fit right for me. There's my story I hope you find it interesting.

Jerry

Nice story. Yes. I found it interesting. See Jerry. I hear this frequently in more situations than guns and I've said it myself. In common terms, this is crap. Then, after I get it working, it suddenly loses its' low designation. As many posters right here on your thread have said, heavy bullets do well in Rugers with a long throat. Everyone had positive opinions on your 7X57 from simply..good caliber to best elk or moose cartridge, they drop right on the spot, etc. It wouldn't hurt to put it down for a couple months. Been there done that. I have a custom rifle that wouldn't feed. Put it down for 4 months and ended up grinding the rail to perfection. Later. CB

Hey Jerry, on the 270 and the 7mm'ers one is 7mm by bore and the other is 7mm by groove. The 270 groove is around .277. 7mm to inches .275591. Pretty dang close to 7mm. The metric for the 270 is 6.9x64. So me thinks you've been duped in a 270. It's a great round, but I think the 7x64 and 280 Remington are better. When you have a good shooting 7x57 in a modern rifle there are no flies on it compared to a 270 either.

SmokinJ: You couldn't prove any of that by me! With a 130 Grain bullet IMO, the 270 is unbeatable by the 2 cartridges you mentioned.

Guys I have no desire to shoot a 175 grain bullet dosen't fit into my ladder of cartridges and bullet weights. Besides, I tried some 175 grain Hornady Spire Points, and they shot worse than the lighter bullets. I hope to shoot again this weekend, and I'll let you all know the results.

Thanks
Jerry

You can attempt to fool the rifle but don't get your hopes up. It will not like boat tails and it will not like spire points or light weights.

It will probably only be happy with 175 grn RN flat base bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
SmokinJ: You couldn't prove any of that by me! With a 130 Grain bullet IMO, the 270 is unbeatable by the 2 cartridges you mentioned.

Guys I have no desire to shoot a 175 grain bullet dosen't fit into my ladder of cartridges and bullet weights. Besides, I tried some 175 grain Hornady Spire Points, and they shot worse than the lighter bullets. I hope to shoot again this weekend, and I'll let you all know the results.

Thanks
Jerry

Thanks: Most likely true, and if that's the case it'll go down the road. My problem here, is I really don't need another rifle/caliber, it's all for fun now. I am very lucky, that I don't have to justify any cartridge/rifle I want to own. But that in itself is a different conondrum,LOL!

Jerry