The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Flattest shooting gun to 300 yardsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Flattest shooting gun to 300 yards | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Of those take the 6.5 creedmoor, flat shooting less recoil Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Agree . . . of the 3, make it the 6.5 Creedmoor. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I agree with the previous posters that the 6.5 Creedmoor is the way to go to "ring steel". I have two of them and regularly shoot 600 and 900 yards (that's the maximum at our private range). Oh course we have some "lucky" groups that I could brag about but the average that we shoot (my brother has a 6.5 Creed too) is about 4" at 600 (then again, this is the internet. LOL). Obviously we have to "dial" for these distances (as with any cartridge at those ranges) since the Creedmoor isn't really one of the flat-screamers that most of us were taking about but it's certainly capable. Zeke | |||
|
| One of Us |
.244 H&H Magnum. All The Best ... | |||
|
| one of us |
At 300 yards, there isn't a nickels worth of difference in any of the mid range calibers from the 250 Savage to the 300 Wby. in the field, you can wiggle off or on in the hunting fields the variation is so little, not killing effect is another ball game, but the difference there is not all that much....We wouldn't have any AR or campfire conversations with each other, nor heated arguments if we just faced the truth of the matter..No one wants that.  What the hell, I'll take a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| one of us |
No, you need significantly less than that because your bullets don't travel in a straight line, ie, you don't shoot a one hole group at 300 yards. Take the group you shoot at 300, divide by two, and subtract that from your drop. For example, if you can shoot a 3 inch group at 300, subtract 1.5 inches from your four inch drop number (for an 8 inch gong); that leaves not four inches, but 2.5 inches. That is why accuracy always trumps velocity when it comes to "flat shooting." Ditto for the wind. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Very informative. Thanks, Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am going to set a 6.5 creedmoor with a Blaser regular barrel and a safari professional stock along with a Leica er5 scope as the rig. Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
The 6.5 Creedmoor is a fun gun to shoot. I built one last winter. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I set it up Since this thread started I saw a blaser safari on clearance at eurooptics and I bought it. Came in 2 days. Picked my blaser success in 6.5 w/ Leica er5 3-15 x 56 with ballistic reticle that was being sighted in. Took the barrel scope and bolt of the success and put in on the safari. It is a heavy rifle. I will eventually get a match 6.5 barrel. Will hunt with it on 8/15 in SC and then become my long range gong gun.     Thanks for all the info provided. Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
Love the update and the pictures. Thanks for that! The rifle would be perfect if the bolt handle were on the correct side!   | |||
|
one of us |
It still amazes me how people will opt for the complicated "Balistic" reticles when a simple duplex can accomplish the same function with a little research. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| one of us |
The bottom post on most duplex reticles is a good 300 yard zero (esp Leupold scopes) but a ballistic reticle beats them hands down past 300. Past 450, dialing rules. | |||
|
| one of us |
270 Win 130 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3100 fps Sight line 1.7" above bore axis. Duplex reticle that subtends 5" @ 100yds on 9x Bottom of top post zero @ 100 yds Crosshair zero @ 260 yds Top of bottom post zero @ 375 yds Hold top of bottom post on hair for center of vitals hit on an animal that is 16" top of withers to brisket..maximum 450 yds Text in RED is edited. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| One of Us |
Same here. My first rifle was a Remington 700 BDL in .270 Win. I killed deer and elk with it, and a friend of mine borrowed it and killed an antelope with it. It was a great rifle to start out with. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Good choice of caliber and a great rifle. Let us know how it works out for you. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
|
| one of us |
On a 300 yard deer target set at from 200 to 300 yards, with me not knowing exact yardage), I can hit the deer in the kills zone (with a rest of some sort, we used a big boulder and/or a tree) 9 times out of a dozen shots with Iron sights with my mod. 93 30-30 carbine..but on a live deer I wouldn't try this very often, but under the perfert set of circumstances I have on occasion...I consider the 30-30 carbine a 250 yard gun with irons and probably a 300 yard gun with a scope, but I have have never used the scope sighted 30-30 on deer. I have other guns for such. My 30-30 did have the advantage of a receiver sight on the tests..300 yard shots in Idaho and the texas big bend country are not uncommon, nor are they preferred. Even in the mountains and rimrocks more deer are killed at 100 to 150 yards than at long range.. I think this post would have more substance say at 400 or 500 yards as most med. bore rifles are very capable at 300 yards with a center mass hold when properly sighted in. I have to base this based on shots at game over the years..At 300 yards keep it simple sight in 3 inches high at 100 yards and hold on hair..Some will argue that method but its worked extremely well for me over a lifetime. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| one of us |
Wildcat: I was thinking you were going to reply that you turned down the power so that the bottom post subtension was accurate at such and such a range (that has problems IMO) but I must say I never thought of your idea - very interesting one I might add. Back in the 80s I hunted a lot of sheep and caribou and zeroed dead on at 400. As long as I thought the animal was 375 or less, I simply held on the bottom of the brisket and let er fly. That worked fairly well until I shot a grizzly bear with my .338 WM zeroed at 200 - I very nearly planted the crosshairs at the bottom of the belly. I would argue your 450 max range is a bit optimistic given the same reasoning I posted in my other comment. My .300 RUM shooting 225 ELDs at 3020 drops about 2 MOA between 375 and 450, which means at 450 half my bullets are hitting below the bottom of the belly using your method. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mike, Anything like a 6mm/06 shooting 60grainers etc is going to get you 4000fps. That is the velocity (or higher) you should aim for if you are limited to 300 yards. BC doesn't matter a damn out to 300. Blair. | |||
|
One of Us |
 roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
|
| one of us |
The bottom half of the duplex reticle (crosshair to top of bottom post) subtends just over 11" at 450 yds. The load as specified drops 21.2" bellow zero at that distance. A hold with the top of the bottom post on the withers will impact 10" bellow the top of the withers (6" above the brisket on a 16"deep animal profile) at 450 yds. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| one of us |
Ok, I thought you were saying you could hold dead center on the bottom post and connect all the way to 450. | |||
|
| One of Us |
270 with 110 TTSX @ 3,400 will drop 5" at 300 with a 200 yard zero. | |||
|
| one of us |
Sight it in at 280 yds and be + or - 3" to 325 yds. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
one of us |
My 22.250 using the 36 grain Barnes Varmint grenade at 4500 fps, with a 100 yard zero drops 5.8" at 300 yards. Sighted in at 200 yards it's 4.3" low at 300 yards. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
|
| One of Us |
I believe the OP has settled on the 6.5 Creed. But I love the way you're thinking about this (plus/minus). Oh . . . and I love the .270! | |||
|
| one of us |
I run all of my loads over a chronograph and know the BC of the bullet I'm using. I then use "Quicktarget" to plot a + or - maximum point blank range. By entering the Mv & BC with the height of the LOS above the bore axis, the critical dimension (+ or -) is also entered and it will plot the trajectory highlighting the range of maximum height of the trajectory, (+ value) the zero range and the range of (-) value. When the scope C/L is 1.7" above bore axis (medium rings) with most medium BC bullets (.420 ish) and MV in the 2700-3000 fps range, 2 1/2" high at 100yds will max out 3" high around 150 yds, zero around 240-260 yds and be 3" low at 275-300 yds. The .277 110 gr TSX at 3400 fps stretched those ranges a bit. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| one of us |
Calculated with scope C/L 1.7" above the bore axis. Sight in 2" high at 100 yds, zero will be just shy of 300yds and 3" low at 340 yds. The trajectory will be 3" high at 180 yds GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| one of us |
For + or - 2" MPBR, sight in 1 1/2" high at 100 yds, zero at 265 yds and 2" low at 300 yds. Again, this is calculated with scope C/L 1.7" above the bore axis. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd heard that about the O'Connor's. That 110 load is an underrated sleeper. | |||
|
| one of us |
A .277 130 gr Ballistic tip at 3200 fps will shoot + or - 3" to 315 yd and retain 1576 ft# of energy at 400.yds. The 110 gr .277 TTSX load referenced in the posts above will retain 1414 ft# of energy at 400 yds GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
|
One of Us |
Just curious: how many fairies are on the head of the pin now? | |||
|
One of Us |
We guide a lot of mountain goat hunting, shots 150-500 yards to be expected, the long side of that only for well practiced clients who can make that shot, who are very rare folks. Our preference is rifles in .25-06, .257 Bee, .270, .270 WSM, .280 & .280AI, 7 Mag, .300s with lighter bullets (90s in .257s, 110s in .270s, 120s in 7mm, 130s in .300) sighted in at 300 yards. This allows zero holdover, zero clicking +/-3.5” shooting to 350 yards if the wind allows. 350 is the maximum we’d expect a client to be able to shoot handily as well on a mountain goat hunt. So much precious time on mountain game is wasted clicking and dialing, the shot opportunity often walks away before the table taped to the gun stock is read. Keep it simple, keep it fast, keep it light. In rifles and chamberings. With modern bullets a 130r .30 bullet kills mountain game outside of Africa every bit as well as a 190. Even better as it's easier to connect with. The big bears, sure step it up, but that's another conversation.  | |||
|
| one of us |
I knew Jack O'Connor well, guided him more than a few times for Coues and Mule Deer when I was a kid, and he was more or less my mentor and the best off hand game shot Ive ever known, in fact the best shot Ive ever known. I never knew him to use 110 gr. bullet in the 270 or a monolithic, not even sure he was still around when the monolitics came about, but wouldn't swear to that...he was a dyed in the wool 130 gr. Rem or WW fan..I also know he "seldom" hunted with handloads, mostly factory ammo, although he shot a lot of handloads on target and varmints and Im sure on some game as I know he shot old WW2 surplus in most of his 270s along with some IMR-4065 and wrote of that...I had better add "for the most part" I picked his mind to the point he told my dad "Does that kid ever get tired of talking guns and hunting, Dad said, not that I know of unless you ask him about one of the horses, he has a two track mind" I guess that will never change. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| One of Us |
You don’t chat with many folks who guided and knew Jack O’Connor, and his two favourites are two of my three favrourites; .270, 7x57. No flies on a 130gr cup and core .270, one of the most impressive rounds and loads out there. A lifelong Yukon mooseguide I know, now in his late 70s, said he’s seen more bang flop bull moose kills from a .270 than any other chambering. Works on goats too, the new fangled mono 110s just flatten it out even more without giving up lethality. | |||
|
| One of Us |
This whole tread is just stupid. I could choose most calibers and find an effective load for long range shooting. There’s nothing special about a 6.5 Creedmore. Love it if you like it. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
|
| One of Us |
I can tell mdstewart would be fun at parties.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Okay! I accept the power of your authority! Perhaps you'd be willing to declare, preferably at the outset of any and all new threads, if those threads are meritorius or stupid. I myself have reconciled myself to the fact that I'm not very bright and could use guidance wrt which threads I should and should not post to, based on your infallible judgement of what's "stupid" and what is not. Thanks in advance. | |||
|
One of Us |
Even more reason you should be writing a book! | |||
|
| One of Us |
The question was about a flat shooting "gun" to 300 yards, not "long range shooting". If I'm thinking "long range" it's not going to be a light fast low BC bullet. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Flattest shooting gun to 300 yards
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia