Generally, bases protect steel, and acids eat it. Some of the lube oil used in large turbines is so full of very strong base that it will eat flesh.

Aluminum is a different story... caustic soda will eat that very well.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Just went and looked at the directions on the Sweet's 7.62 and it said, "Harmless to steel".

Really? So why do the same directions tell you to not leave the solvent in the bore for more than 15 minutes?

Hey HP, I've had 4-5 bottles of Sweet's 7.62 over the years and I thought it actually said, "Do not leave in Bore more than 20 minutes!"(but it sure could have been 15min as you mention)

In fact, I went to look to see if I had any left before my first post to this thread and did find one bottle. It doesn't mention the, "Do not leave in Bore more than 20 minutes!" anywhere on this one. It does say, Harmless to steel, non-acid with 5% Ammonia Just did a sniff test and it smells like Ammonia.

Does your bottle say it actually has "7.62% Ammonia" in it? Because I also thought that was on the older bottles I had.

One of my bottles developed a leak in the plastic once and made quite a mess, make that a smelly mess. I just looked at the bottom of this plastic bottle and the bottom appears to be "stippled". Is it that way on yours too?

I don't see anything that appears to be a Date Code, but perhaps they have changed the formula a bit from the earlier bottles I had.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Hot Core, I do remember a lot of controversy about ammonia combining with certain barrel contaminants to make acids that could pit the bore. Seems moly was in the equation somewhere. It required that the ammonia traces be left in the bore over extended periods of time (weeks or months).

Hey tiggertate, I'm leary of Ammonia because it will cause "Brass Embrittlement" and you can end up with case-splits along the case body. So, whenever I use an Ammonia based product, I'm overly cautious about making sure I get it out of the Bore and oil it lightly.

Sure doesn't mean a person shouldn't use it, but it does require a bit extra effort for me when I'm finishing with it.

I use Moly in nearly every rifle I shoot, but they have not had the "need" for an Ammonia based product in any of them. So, I've no experience with it in them.

quote:

I don't think I ever heard about the carbon leaching , though. The Outers system will leach iron if there is sufficient rust in the bore to contaminate the solution.

That is probably what I was thinking about.

I always flush the barrel carefully after using any ammonia, dry it with an alcohol patch and oil it.

The article I was talking about was in Precison Shooting many years ago.

Hot Core, I'm going from memory here because I got rid of my Sweet's a few months back. I much prefer a combination of milder solvents and abrasive pastes as they get rid of the copper faster (although with a little more elbow grease).

I will look at a bottle next time I'm at the gun store, but I do remember clearly that the 15 min warning was on the directions for use.

If you attempt to use the 28% Aqua Ammonia be prepared to have your breath taken away. Sweets 7.62 ia only 5% active and smells "stout" the "real" stuff is very dangerous and must be handled as if it could blind you immediately. It can cause severe lung damage in a very short time. Before messing with it search out an MSDS on line to detail handling and emergency first aid info...

Be Careful, Bruce

Hot Core,

The Sweets I have here is "harmless to steel, non acid with 5% ammonia". Direction #5 says "do not leave solvent in barrel for periods longer than 15 minutes". Have no idea as to it's vintage.

quote:

Originally posted by oulufinn:
If you attempt to use the 28% Aqua Ammonia be prepared to have your breath taken away. Sweets 7.62 ia only 5% active and smells "stout" the "real" stuff is very dangerous and must be handled as if it could blind you immediately. It can cause severe lung damage in a very short time. Before messing with it search out an MSDS on line to detail handling and emergency first aid info...

Be Careful, Bruce

That is a good comment and thanks for bringing it up. I would rate it about the same as gasolene in terms of general handling precautions. OTOH, if you can't handle 28% ammonia responsibly you probably have no business owning a firearm, either.

Put sweets on the outside of a barrle you don't care about and leave it overnight.
There will be pits.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Hot Core,

The Sweets I have here is "harmless to steel, non acid with 5% ammonia". Direction #5 says "do not leave solvent in barrel for periods longer than 15 minutes". Have no idea as to it's vintage.

Hey Craigster, Thank you. Does the bottom of the plastic bottle you have look stippled?
---

Hey tnekkcc, Did you have a barrel pitted by using Sweet's?

No stippling on this one on the bottom, but the top portion has it. I do remember what your talking about being on the bottles I had in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Just went and looked at the directions on the Sweet's 7.62 and it said, "Harmless to steel".

Really? So why do the same directions tell you to not leave the solvent in the bore for more than 15 minutes?

Well it's not because amonia will damage the barrel, according to Lilja Barrels, and the way the guys above are splashing the stuff around.

I've been wondering the same thing for years, someone on AR said the amonia in Sweets will
disperse within 10 minutes, so it's no use leaving it in much longer. Maybe when Sweets drys out the copper can re-plate back onto the barrel? Plus it won't stop rust if you forget and leave it in for a long while.
John L.

Does anyone have any experience with KG industries cleaning products?
I´ve came across this products but I don´t know nothing about them.

Here´s what I found on their web sight:

KG1 Carbon Remover
KG-1 was initially formulated for exclusive use by a military group to remove the spent carbon and firing residue build-up from their weapons.
Unlike other Cleaners, KG-1 contains no ammonia, is pH neutral, is non-flammable and will not harm metals. KG-1 is ideal for removing carbon from black powder rifles and will also loosen copper fouling.
If needed KG-1 can be diluted by 15% with water.


KG2 Bore Polish
Originally developed to maintain the bore integrity of sniper rifles, KG-2 is being introduced to the public to provide shooters with a product that will actually improve the condition of the bore while cleaning it. Like KG-1, KG-2 contains no ammonia and uses a mechanical method to remove the worst of copper, lead and powder residue.
KG-2 can be used when shooting numerous rounds in between cleanings or as a bore conditioner for those weapons needing extra care. KG-2 is an ideal product for Fire Polishing a technique which is finer than Fire Lapping.


KG12 Big Bore Cleaner
KG-12 was developed to clean the copper fouling from large bore military weapons. KG-12 will provide shooters with a product which will remove the toughest of copper fouling without harming any other metal. Unlike other etching, ammonia based cleaners, KG-12 will not hurt the metal of the bore. There is no need to "neutralize" KG-12 like you do with other Ammonia based products and no need to "get it out quick" like ammonia based enchants. KG-12 contains no ammonia . KG-12 is water based . KG-12 will remove the worst of copper fouling, and it will do it fast. KG-12 contains no synthetics. KG-12 was field tested on howitzers (One Million Dollars each) and other large bore guns with outstanding results. When used in conjunction with KG-2, KG-3 and KG-4 you will find no better cleaning system on the market. In general you can call KG-12 the Million Dollar Gun Cleaner!

Make your own @
http://home.sprynet.com/~frfrog2/homemade.htm

Thanks Sako, this really helps. AIU

I used some Wipe Out in an old Husky 270 I inherited last night and after three 45 min soaks, it was still navy blue. I swabbed it with Hoppes(old stuff) and went to bed. That one will wait for next time.
If that rifle had ever been cleaned I'd be surprised. I'll have to look at it with the endoscope. Just for curiosity.

Hey Doc! Is an old used endoscope cheaper than a Hawkeye? Inquiring minds want to know.

You ought to be able to find a pediatric bronchoscope pretty reasonable. The light source may be problem. I bought one for $90 a few years ago and used it as a bronchoscope until last year when it got retired. Look at your local hospital or ask a physician friend (an older guy-the new ones don't have time to look for old stuff. They are too busy making money.) If you don't find one there ask a used equipment dealer. You don't need Storz or Zeiss--Konica or one of the other Jap maker is good. The big disadvantage of the bronchoscope is you can't get in things less than 6mm.
I'm a little put off by the makers of the Hawkeye. I think it is a good product but way over priced. They take advantage of a niche nobody else has filled. They took an old veterinary product that wasn't selling well anymore and turned it into a borescope. I traded one back to them a few years ago (a whole kit not just one scope)looking for better optics and that's what they told me they were doing with them. I ended up with a nice 12" rigid endoscope 3mm in diameter. You can't see a whole bore with it but it works and I can still look in a lung or bladder with it if I have to.

1 oz.ammonium persulphate--200 grains ammonium carbonate--4 oz. distilled water--6 oz. strong ammonia(26 %) Mix outdoors use a glass bottle. this is an old mix that will eat up copper. plug barrel at the chamber. pour mix into bore and let set in the bore for a half hour. Pour the mix out and clean with hoppies. Put some on a penney to see hw it works.

The reason they say dont leave sweets in the barrel for more that 15 minutes is that it begins to dry up as soon s it leaves the bottle. The ammonia evaporates out of the sovlent and the stuff that is left behind forms a crusty stuff. If you leave it in the barrel and let it dry, the copper will dry with it in the crust and it is extremely difficult to get out. I had it happen once on accident and the only thing I could do was repeatedly use usp bore paste on a patch and brush. It took two days. I still use sweets but make sure it doesnt dry up.

This thread got me interested and tonight I got my scope and looked at the bores I cleaned the other night. The 264 Win is clean except for a little copper about 6" from the muzzle. The rifling is perfect right down to the leade.
The 270 I thought was still dirty is not any worse than the 264. I was pleasantly surprised to find a pristine barrel. The throat is perfect. The 7mm-08 is about like the other two.
This tells me that Wipe Out gets copper in the throat and proximal portion of the barrel but it fails when it gets to the last few inches of the barrel. It's still easier than scrubbing for the effort. Now I'll go back with some J-B in the first 6" of the barrel.

Not sure if this was mentioned but make sure you don't get Sweets mixed w/ another solvent like Shooters Choice in your barrel. When breaking in a barrel I start out w/ Shooters Choice, clean that out w/ anhydrous isopropyl alcohol and then use Sweets. I don't leave the Sweets in the bore for too long. I've been told its best to not go over 5 minutes. I'm sure I've had it in there for up to 10 minutes on occasion but I try to keep in under 5 now. I clean the Sweets out w/ anhydrous isopropyl alcohol. For a match grade barrel its shoot/clean each shot for 10 rounds or so. Then shoot and clean every 5 rounds for 25 to 30 rounds. This is a pain, but it pays off, as the fouling drops way off and pretty much goes away. A factory barrel will take longer to break in. I'm sure this is obvious to most, but since I made the mistake, make sure you don't get fluid in your chamber or you may get pressure problems.

Joe

WIPE-OUT with the accelerator!!

You foam it up and walk away. patch it out tomorrow.

To all those that say not to use barnes bullets.I have been testing the barnes tsx and fouling has not been any worse than any other bullet.The standard barnes x is terrible as is the swift scirocco.For removing copper I use sweets or cr-10.