I have found that Brek Free Carbon Cutter and Iosso Bore Paste are the fastest ways to remove copper off a bore.
I have used all other methods (Sweet's, Wipe Out, Hoppes) and nothing works as well as a patch around a jag, saturated with Iosso and wetted with Carbon Cutter. Don't let the name fool you, this stuff is very effective on copper all by itself, and even more so when combined with an abrasive.
Also, if your barrel fouls a lot, consider giving a treatment with the Final Finish fire lapping kit. It've used its milder counterpart, Throat Maintenance System, to smooth out an AR15's throat with about 3300 rounds through it to noticeable effect.
I like sweets, and save Iosso for the tough stuff. I use a 25%/75% mix of Kroil and Shooter's Choice for general cleaning tho. This year I've been using TW25B for a lube, and I be likin' it. Have you ever cleaned your old mauser with windex? You wouldn't believe what ammonia D can remove!
The new BORE FOAM products (Gunslick, etc.) are the best I've run into for removing copper fouling. Easy to apply, easy to remove, and easy to see the blue color, indicative of copper fouling. When the blue color no longer appears on you patch, you know you've got it out.
____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain |
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I find the problem with copper fouling is not so much in removing it, but in trying to control its reappearance. This is why custom barrels that are hand lapped are so desireable. They're so smooth inside the copper has little to get attached to. Copper fouls in layers. I suspect that's the reason for the popularity of JB Bore Compound. It's an abrasive and will expose the next layer of copper when present. Some people resort to abrasive bullets like Tubbs Final Finish, but I think that might be a bit drastic for most rifles. There's probably nothing more gratifying than the groups fired immediately after copper removal. Best wishes.
I use to swear by CR-10, till I gave Wipe-Out a try and now that is all I use on all of my rifles, MLs, and rifled bore bolt action slug guns.
Wipe out works about 90%+ as well as advertized, at least based on MY experience. What I like most about Wipe-Out is #1- you can clean two or three firearms, or as meny rifles as you have cleaning vises at once. #2- W-O will not harm your bore, any metal parts, or your stock finnish, #3-you can leave it in your bore for extended periods of several hours with compleat safety. Try that with CR-10, or Sweats and you will be buying a new barrel.
A new product I read about in Gun Teast mag was called Montana Extream 50 BMG Bore Solvent and copper remover. G/T mag gave it a vary favorable review sawing it removed the most copper from bullets thay soked in it and other copper sovents.
Con, I like your idea - household ammonia. Could you elaborate on what product you use and how you use it? I'd love to get your technique and try it. Regards, AIU
Originally posted by Ackley Improved User: Con, I like your idea - household ammonia. Could you elaborate on what product you use and how you use it? I'd love to get your technique and try it. Regards, AIU
If you realy want to go the ammonia route I suggest you get a gallon of 28% ammonia from a drafting supply shop. Household ammonia is only 2-3%. Talk about take your breath away!
For a really bad barrel I plug the breech like an Outer's Foulout and fill the barrel (this after at least one pass with bore cleaner to clear some carbon). Let it stand an hour or so and dump it in the sink, swab with some more bore cleaner and see what you got. Practice will help you develope your own technique over time. US armorers used this method to clean out battle-abused barrels and I think Ackley mentions it in his book. I've even added some 28% to old tired bottles of ammonia-based bore cleaners to perk them up with some success.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Originally posted by Cal Sibley: I find the problem with copper fouling is not so much in removing it, but in trying to control its reappearance. This is why custom barrels that are hand lapped are so desireable. They're so smooth inside the copper has little to get attached to. Copper fouls in layers. I suspect that's the reason for the popularity of JB Bore Compound. It's an abrasive and will expose the next layer of copper when present. Some people resort to abrasive bullets like Tubbs Final Finish, but I think that might be a bit drastic for most rifles. There's probably nothing more gratifying than the groups fired immediately after copper removal. Best wishes.
Cal - Montreal
Cal, Final Finish kits include bullets coated in a range of abraisve grits and also instructions on how to proceed depending on the type of barrel you have and the severity of the fouling it produces.
Too strong in what regard? Ammonia can't hurt steel but 28% WILL get your attention if you get some in a cut! It will burn mucus membranes too but so will 10% I've been using it for 7 years now, especially on pawnshop finds. It is the cheapest form of ammonia you can readily buy and it can always be diluted. A gallon jug is pretty much a lifetime supply for gun work.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Household ammonia. Plug the chamber, stand the rifle muzzle up, and fill the barrel. Let it soak for about 4 hours, then pour it out and check the bore. Repeat if needed. Wipe the bore dry then oil lightly. Works on both stainless and moly barrels.
I have done cleaning rod duty for hours with Flitz and Sweets on a patch on a jag. All I can see in the first 1/2" of muzzle. If I keep seeing copper, it is frustrating.
To prevent Copper fouling, in some guns with nice bore I use moly bore cream and work it in before shooting moly bullets. This seems to work for me.
Posts: 9043 | Location: on the rock | Registered: 16 July 2005
Ahhh. That's what I thought. Put an ounce of 10% in a bowl in one room and an ounce of 28% in another and tell me which is which. They will both drive you to another building!
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Honestly didn't know that they made chamber plugs. Growing up, I was taught that you NEVER let any liquid sit in a barrel over night, much less fill the barrel up!
Hence I never thought of filling up the barrel with ammonia.
No offense to anyone but a $10 can of wipeout will cost probably less than $.25 cents per cleaning. I'm sure not gonna screw around with nasty amonia and hope I get my bore plugged properly etc etc. I'll let the guys who make the gun cleaning stuff make a living cause they make it easy for me at a more than reasonable price.
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002
Day to day I now use Wipe Out as well. But I keep my ammonia on hand for the occasional pawn shop find that was never ever cleaned. There are a lot of guns out there that lazy or ignorant owners think are "shot out" and truth be known, they are so fouled with 10 or 15 years of abuse that they shoot patterns.
One good ammonia cleaning takes them back to normal again. The first one of these super cruddy barrels I tried with Wipe Out burned up a whole can.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
Think about this. Work your tail off with whatever you like. Assume your bore is 100% clean (it isn't). Go to your local range and fire a "fouling" shot or two before shooting those real tight groups.What have you done? For one thing laid a nice layer of copper fouling over the rough spots in those crappy "remchester" barrels.
Posts: 200 | Location: alberta canada | Registered: 16 February 2005
Originally posted by tiggertate: Too strong in what regard? Ammonia can't hurt steel ....
Hey tiggertate, Somewhere in the back of my mind I had the impression that if you leave a strong Ammonia solution in a barrel it can begin removing some of the "Carbon" from the surface of the barrel steel, thus creating microscopic pitting. Is that full of beans?
Just went and looked at the directions on the Sweet's 7.62 and it said, "Harmless to steel".
Maybe I am mixing this up with the Outer's Foul Out System.
Getting old......
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Hot Core, I do remember a lot of controversy about ammonia combining with certain barrel contaminants to make acids that could pit the bore. Seems moly was in the equation somewhere. It required that the ammonia traces be left in the bore over extended periods of time (weeks or months).
I don't think I ever heard about the carbon leaching , though. The Outers system will leach iron if there is sufficient rust in the bore to contaminate the solution.
"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003
