I have four M-98 actions sitting and staring at me....three are Czech and one is German....all 1938 to 1942 mfg.

I'm looking for something to make and the .358 Norma is among my possibilities. I've been so happy with my .35 Whelen that I've considered a bit more....and the .358 Norma is a possibility.

I also have a 9.3 X 62 and a .375 H&H....so am a bit concerned that the .358 is simply redundant.

What's the opinions?

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:

Play nice now Clem....

It's a serious question....What's the opinions of the .358 Norma?....

Don't see many anywhere....except maybe in Europe.....and I don't hunt there!

If it was my choice, I would go 9.3x64 Brenneke.

I say go for it then tell us how it works out.

I plan on one in the future on an Enfield action to go with my two 308 Norma Mags.

It ought to be a real stomper.

Roger

358 Norma sounds like a great idea.

I had one and could easily get 2800 fps with the 250 gr Nosler Partition in a 25" barrel. That load was chrongraphed at 73 degrees on my Oehler 33 and was very accurate according to my notes.

It isn`t any room between .35w and .375 H&H.
Go for a another type of rifle in a caliber you already have gear and ammo for.

@.358Norma:
I started my .358Norma-projekt last year. I used a old vom Hofe M98-action and bought an LW medium weight 65cm barrel. But this year, I haven´t enaugh time, to finish it. But I hope next year will be better.


Martin

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
If it was my choice, I would go 9.3x64 Brenneke.

Exactly!

The 358 was "invented" by Norma/Qvale in a time when the american influence was at it's peak here in Scandinavia.
In the x64 you have the splendid 286-320 grains bullets from Woodleigh to play with, along with 286 Noslers, Oryx and 250-300 Swift's!

You dont't need that silly belt!
And it's kind of romantic to have the cartidge the great W Brenneke made to be the optimum for the m98-action, isn't it?

m

a good friend had an fn mauser action made into a 358 norma, I believe it had a 21" semi heavy barrel and within a dozen rounds or so was grouping under 1/2" groups. I think that is plenty good for hunting the bigger critters.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
It isn`t any room between .35w and .375 H&H.
Go for a another type of rifle in a caliber you already have gear and ammo for.

quote:

Originally posted by metric:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
If it was my choice, I would go 9.3x64 Brenneke.

Exactly!

The 358 was "invented" by Norma/Qvale in a time when the american influence was at it's peak here in Scandinavia.
In the x64 you have the splendid 286-320 grains bullets from Woodleigh to play with, along with 286 Noslers, Oryx and 250-300 Swift's!

You dont't need that silly belt!
And it's kind of romantic to have the cartidge the great W Brenneke made to be the optimum for the m98-action, isn't it?

m

Holy Mackerel...When the scandanavians say this one has to listen....

Where does one get brass for this 9.3x64 Brenneke?....I didn't find it at Midway!

Would a 358 STA fit that action or is the cartridge too long?

One of my closest friends and hunting partners has a 9.3x64 on a Brno ZG-47 action I let him score from my stash of actions. He had Ralf Martini build it and used a Borden-Rimrock stock and other goodies and it shoots, boy, does it ever!

But, ammo is hard to find, very costly and it will not hold more rounds than a .338WM or .358NM will in the same mag. box. I like the round and the rifle, but, my orginal ZG-9.3x62 with good handloads and in a Micky stock with a Satterlee safety and so forth, will perform as well and holds 4+1 as issued.

To me, the practical choices of cartridges in this class, are the .338WM and 9.3x62....that said and with quite a few fine rifles in both of these, I have been pestering a guy I know to sell me his FN-based Husqy .358NM for some time.........addiction, you say!

I would build one with a slightly elongated throat on an FN action and reform .300Win. brass for it, load 270 Northforks over H-4350 and call it "good", a 22" tube is fine, IMO.

Here's your cartridge. The first left and last right are 9.3x338. The middle cartridge is the std 338 WM. The other two are Norma 9.3x62 cartridges.

The wildcat 9.3x338 has almost identical capacity compared to the 9.3x64. Basically use the same load data. Get your brass at Walmart.

BTW, I used a favorite action of yours - the Ruger stainless 77MKII. Action worked with no modifications, other than lapping the lugs and trueing the face. Feeds very well.

My reamer has cut only one chamber, and is still sharp.

BTW, Redding put the label they liked on the box. I had PacNor stamp "366 Alaskan" on the barrel.

It's been a lot of fun. Easy load development. Super accurate with several loads. Drives the 250gr Nosler AB past 2800 fps cronographed. Loves the 250gr TSX. All perched inside a Hogue stock. It's off to the gunsmith now to be bedded into a McMillan classic stock. Next, Black T.

KB

If you just want to have fun than do it, but it ain't going to do anything better than your Ho-Humm Whelen. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:
Would a 358 STA fit that action or is the cartridge too long?

It would fit but the cost of the surgery to make it fit is not in my budget and I'm not sure I want to learn how to do it myself...

Thanks Clem....I'm going to pass on this one!

I don't know about brass...

I use brass from RWS and the company called Swiss Jagd...
The RWS cases are heavy and sturdy, the SJ are a lot lighter and thin walled. In reloading it varies about 2 - 2,5 grain of powder.

Isn't there any import of RWS ammo and components to the US?

M

I'll throw my votes in. 9.3x64Brenneke, 8x68S, or 7x64Brenneke. Those are classic calibers for that action; and probably none of your buds own one. MS

I first bought a 358Norma built on mannlicher stock. Barrel is either 19 or 20" It is too cold to go open the safe. Then Grafs discountued a bunch of 250 Norma ammo. So I bought all they had at around $22 a box. Maybe 10 years from now I'll need to reload for it. These bullets leave my rifle at close to 2750fps and give me a nice 2" 100yd group using a peep sight. To date it has only taken around a dozen hogs but it takes them with authority. I like the 358Norma so much I had to build it a 308Nordma as a little brother.

quote:

I like the 358Norma so much I had to build it a 308Nordma as a little brother.

I can relate.....I have come to take a serious appreciation for my .35 Whelen....it's a real thumper.

I'm just thinking a little bit more....

Maybe the guys are right about the 9.3x64 Brenneke....I still need to learn more about it!

I don't personally have any experience with it but it's always kind of intrigued me too. I think if I didn't have my .338, I'd try for a .358 Norma too. I can't really say why, but..
I never had any use for any thing metric. Let the Yuro's have them. No logic to it but just because.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I like the 358Norma so much I had to build it a 308Nordma as a little brother.

I can relate.....I have come to take a serious appreciation for my .35 Whelen....it's a real thumper.

I'm just thinking a little bit more....

Maybe the guys are right about the 9.3x64 Brenneke ....I still need to learn more about it!

Consider this Vapo, the 9.3x64 is beltless, has the same gentle shoulder angle as the '06, and is every bit the equal of the .375.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
Consider this Vapo, the 9.3x64 is beltless, has the same gentle shoulder angle as the '06, and is every bit the equal of the .375.

Cobra....can you furnish some performance data...for example...velocity of a .250 grain accubond.....this is what I'd like to shoot in it!

I show the case capacity to be the same. Both gross and net. So the 358 gr 250 would have a slight advantage in BC and SD.

Can't see them as being much different.

Thanks Ramrod.....I have no experience with the Brenneke round at all.

In other words....it's like a 9.3/338 Mag and beltless?...that has a nice ring to it!

The 358 Norma is a tremendous round, certainly more power than the 35 Whelen, but also better than the 375 in longer distance shooting. It is an under-appreciated round, for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:
Consider this Vapo, the 9.3x64 is beltless, has the same gentle shoulder angle as the '06, and is every bit the equal of the .375.

Cobra....can you furnish some performance data...for example...velocity of a .250 grain accubond.....this is what I'd like to shoot in it!

The only info I can find right now is for the NBT.

9.3x64 Brenneke 250 NBT 67-gr. RL15 2,800 4,351

I'll keep looking and see what else I can find, my cousin uses the A-Frames if you're interested.

quote:

9.3x64 reloading data can be found in the A-Square and Nosler reloading manuals. According to Nosler data, their 250 grain Ballistic Tip spitzer bullet (SD .267) can be loaded to a MV of 2640 fps in front of 63.0 grains of RL15 powder, and a MV of 2802 fps in front of 67.0 grains of RL15.

Found on Chuck Hawks website!!

Thanks Cobra.....All I need now is a place to get brass...

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Thanks Cobra.....All I need now is a place to get brass...

I've never used them but this might help.

http://www.qual-cart.com/

+ 1 for the 358 Norma. I have always wanted to build one; however, that 9.3-338 WM has piqued my interest.

Lou

It's basically a handloading deal, whether it's the 358N, 9.3x64, or 9.3x338. Either one will perform well. For me the decision was based on feeding issues, brass, and I wanted to use the 286gr bullets. But as it is now, I'm using the 250gr TSX.

Since one reason to have a 9.3 belted magnum is speed, I might as well use it, rather than choke it down with a heavy bullet. In my rifle that 250gr TSX is accurate enough to use the speed, and take longer shots with confidence, if given the opportunity. I'm pleased with the wildcat, and I'm sure I would be just as pleased with the other two.

KB

Call me crazy - I have my eye on a 9.3 x 66. Purchase will depend on price.

I've been shooting the 368 Norma for 10 years or so, and am on my second one. Great round, shoots plenty flat enough for what I do with it, hits very hard, kick is reasonable.

I've been wanting to do a 9.3x64 Brenneke, and have all the parts, brass, bullets and a scope ready to go but haven't pulled the trigger yet because the Norma just keeps knocking stuff in the dirt.

I sold my 338s after seeing what the 358 would do. It seems to me that the additional bullet diameter does make a difference on game, but I can't back it up with any scientific data. Just seemed to me that the 338 kicked just as hard, but didn't work quite as well.

I've no experience with the 9.3 Brenneke beyond buying the parts, but I can't imagine that there will be much difference between it and the Norma. Both will hammer critters, both suffer from brass and data scarcity, and both are relatively obscure bullet diameters.

If anything, I'd give the slight edge to the Norma since cases can be made from 338 Win Mag brass pretty easily. Brenneke RWS brass is available from Ralf and Mandy Martini, and is of superb quality.

If you were closer, I'd let you take my Norma for a spin.

Friend of mine has a 9.3x64 and 358Norma ... the two are indistinguishabe in every way other than the price of reloading components.

My 358Norma build should hopefully start this Thursday.
Cheers...
Con

I have a Husqvarna-built 358 NM, I believe they bought the actions from FN. I have only shot a few deer with it, as for some reason deer tend to show up when I carry my mod 70. My experience, however, with Hornady 250 grs SPs is that it kills with a bit more authority than the 30-06. I never noticed the belt in feeding, and if brass should be scarce you can use 338 WMs. I do not remember the amount of N-160 my brother loaded behind the Hornadys, and I haven't chronographed the loads. My interest in flat trajectories is as limited as my shooting skills, but I do like to use enough gun. For a powerful, yet light rifle on a standard length action, the 358 NM shines, but not much more so than the 338 WM.

The biggest problem with the .358 Norma is that it bumps against standard cartridges such as the .375 Ruger.

The Norma for all intents and purposes is a handload only thing and you can get regular factory loads for the .375 Ruger. The Ruger is also standard in every other respect.

Same goes for the other direction. The .338 Win Mag stands right along side the .358 Norma and it's very hard to ignore the .338 WM.

I suspect this is why the .358 Norma is so hard to find in the US

I am constantly considering blowing my 35 whelen ai out to 358 norma, but it just performs great so haven't. however, I do think often that I need a match to my 308nm.

it's true they cross into teh 357 area of power, but for me not having a 338 I don't see a reason not to go up that other half step.

the 9.3 brenneke sounds cool though, but components more difficult to come by. belts don't bother me so I'd still go norma, you can always use 308 norma brass which doesn't seem hard to come by.

Red

quote:

you can always use 308 norma brass which doesn't seem hard to come by.

I wouldn't be too concerned about brass for the .358 Norma.....one purchase of fifty might be a lifetime supply.....it's not like one is going to go shooting prairie dogs with it!