Ok, I need a new rifle to fill the gap in my safe. You know, the one between my .257 Bob and the .350 Rem Mag. I've got 100-120gr covered...and 200-250 gr. bullets covered.

But what to do between say, 140-180gr?

I'm the kinda guy who likes things a bit different. A .30-06 or a .308 just won't do. My three shooting buddies have at least 10 30's between them. Yeah, I know, great cartridges, yada yada. Color me bored.

And I don't need/want a magnum. Really, if I need to shoot beyond 300 yards I need to do a bit of walking first. A 7mm Mag isn't going to give me one ounce more of killing power than I already have with the .350...

The next step I looked at was the 8x57JS Mauser. Love the idea and it would work well as a "filler" round. But it's getting closer to the big .350 than I want. And I haven't found a US company that makes them currently - which is a problem. There's dreadfully few on the Auction sites either.

So that leaves me with two "non-standard" cartridges. 7x57 and .280 Rem (aka, the 7mm Express). Ballisticaly they look virtually identical, although the .280 should have an edge in heavier bullets given the longer action based on the .30-06 case. And the 7x57 in a short action is a bit hamstrung in case capacity - especially with longer bullets.

On the other hand the 7x57 has some uniqueness that I do like. And I can use 7x brass to reform for .257 bob...

BTW, what I want this for is hunting Elk sized game or less. 300 yards max range (really, I'm 38 and have crap eyesight. I know my limits!).

If I were to go .280, I'd likely go with a Bolt - Probably a Rem. 700 as I do like the action and triggers are very easy to change out.

On the other hand if I went 7x57 I might well go with a Ruger #1 so I could long-load the bullets to maximize case capacity...

So, what say you? 7x57? 280? I doubt I can go wrong either way...or can I?

I like the 7x57, but unless it's put up in a M98 or sim. med. action, you might as well go 280 in a std. action. In a #1, one of my favorite rifles, the shorter case makes even less sense & the #1 is not a lt.wt. rifle w/ any bbl. config.
So I chose the 280 as my backup elk/deer combo rifle in a very nice, lt.wt. custom M70 in 280rem. I love this little rifle & w/ it's 23" bbl., it will throw 160grNPs @ 2800fps+ into very small groups on good days. It has a straight grain walnut stock & w/ a Leup. 3x-9x comp., weighs in just at 7 1/4" ready to hunt. It's all I need for deer size game as far as I want to shoot & will do fine for elk under 300yds w/ the 160grNPs.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I like the 7x57, but unless it's put up in a M98 or sim. med. action, you might as well go 280 in a std. action.

Fred has it nailed. I own 2ea. 7x57s and no .280s. The 7 x57s are a joy but in the real world the .280 is almost the perfect cartridge for the lower 48 and beyond. roger

I concur with fred and bartsche. The .280 is the probable choice if you want to wring the most out of your 7mm. I just broke down and bought a .280 after many years with the 7x57mm.

LLS

IMO the 7 X 57 is a handload proposition and the .280 can be fired as is....but I'd handload that too!

Anything the 7 X 57 can do the .280 can do a couple hundred feet/sec better and the real test is throwing the 175 spires.......the .280 wins.

There will be those saying that there's not much difference and they're exactly right.....except if it's me, I want the difference on my side!

IMO it's an easy decision.....the .280 wins handily.

I have both, and don't want to persuade you one way or the other ....... my only comment - I like the way you think. Either will do fine, two great choices. You're probably someone who knows that shot placement is paramount.

I've used a .280rem since Remington brought out the 7mmExpress in the 1970's. Right now I shoot a Rem 700KS custom shop with a 24" barrel. I've shot lots of antelope, deer, elk, sheep, bears and moose with it. I love the cartridge and rifle! You can't go wrong with this cartridge.

I rather like the Ruger #1A in 7X57.
Mine is a tack driver and lots of fun.
I can't agree with fred about the weight. Mine has a 22 inch tube and I don't know what it weighs but it aint very heavy.
How ever I don't think a single shot 7X57 makes a very good elk rifle.
And frankly if I had a 350 rem mag,(I almost do as I have a whelen) I would not use a 7X57 or a 280 for elk hunting.
If I had a .257 Roberts, (I have 2 and an AI) And a 350 rem mag, I think I might go and just look for the coolest rifle I can aford regardless of caliber.
You really are aready set prety well for most hunting.
Just go find smothing you like and buy it for the Hell of it.
I have tons of fun with my marlin 45/70 and I also bought an old FN 270, not cause I needed it, I just liked it. Its one of my favorites now. I did the same with a custom 6.5X57. Don't know what ill use it for , but Its reall prety and acurate. Make great deer rifle.
...tj3006

I've been shooting .280 Remington since 1960. I bought a new Remington 725 in .280, and shot factory ammo until late 1962 when I began reloading.

I've killed elk, Mule, Blacktail, and Whitetail deer, Antelope, and Black bear, with no problem whatsoever.

Also, in the mid-'70s, I had Frank Pachmayr of Pachmayr Gun Works in Los Angeles, make a from-the-ground-up custom .280 Remington on a cherry 1909 DWM Argentine Mauser action. Very sweet, and shoots very accurately.

I had looked into the 7x57, but decided the .280 would suit my needs more. It was a wise decision... for me.

FWIW.

L.W.

I took my 280 wildcat and my wife took her 7X57 to Namibia in May. Both worked just fine. Using handloads in both the 280 gives an extra 25-30 yds of Point blank range with 140s. And a little more energy down range. But if you go to the heavier bullets the 280 will pull further ahead.

All the "numbers" give the edge to the 280, but for me it is the 7x57.

Good luck on this one. Though the 280 is likely more versatile, I've been longing for a 7x57 bolt action for sometime now, purely for nostalgia’s sake. If I had to decide between a 7-08 and a 280, I'd take the 280 I think.

I've really been hoping that Ruger puts out a Hawkeye in 7x57, but maybe we'll find Osama soon too.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
I rather like the Ruger #1A in 7X57.
Mine is a tack driver and lots of fun.
I can't agree with fred about the weight. Mine has a 22 inch tube and I don't know what it weighs but it aint very heavy.

Thomas, weight is subjective, but depending on your scope, the 1A will come in right at 8#+. I have a couple #1s & love to hunt with them, but they are not "light". You can get an off the shelf bolt action, like the M700LSS, that weighs in @ 6.6# + scope & rings for about 7.5#. Not alot less but if you are looking for a light wt. rifle for NA, the 280 is perfect as recoil is very mild even in a 7#+/- rifle.

I am just like you! Gotta be something a bit different. That is why i shoot [for 7mm] a Dah DA Dah!!!!!! 7x64 Brenneke.
Aloha, Mark

If you want different, build up a 7x57 but mark the barrel "275 Rigby"

Same caliber - even more nostalgia

Not everyone has a .275 rigby.

you could always go for a 280 ackley. thats a little different. nosler even makes 280ackley brass and i think they are going to bring out some loading 280ackley rounds. probably even chamber the nosler custom rifles in 280 ackley. i think they might standardise it actually.

Something 7mm would be perfect, with bullets from 100 to 180 grains, it fits in perfectly.

I had a 7mm-08(what a superb cartridge and simular performance to the 7x57).

I had my 7mm-08 reamed to 284 winchester(simular performance to the 280rem)just to see if it can be done. I am very impressed with the 284, it gives me an extra 10 grains of powder to use over the 7-08, not that I need it.

I also had a 7mm rem mag some years back, and that was a superb cartridge too, now days if I needed that performance level I would take the 7mm WSM over the rem mag though.

No matter what 7mm cartridge you get, you cant go wrong.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/seven_092105/index.html

Considering the two cases and their potential...I'd recommend the 280, even tho I own the 7 x 57s...and a 7 Rem Mag..

I found out when comparing a 57mm case to an 06 sized case in 6.5 bore... the 6.5/06 gave me no more performance than the 6.5 x 57.. the 06 version just burned more powder accomplishing it...

however, even loading the 7 x 57 HOT, it still is bettered by the 280 case with ANY bullet weight....

however I have also noticed that when comparing load data results ( velocity potential) of the 7 Rem Mag with the 280... the Mag doesn't give me much more than the 280 does, and burns more powder to accomplish it...

Of the 7 x 57, 280 and 7 Rem Mag, the most efficient and logical is the 280...

But I am a sucker for tradition, so I will forever be a 7 x 57 man over the 280... however, maybe in a compromise.. I often take 280 Winchester Nickel brass and neck it down to 7 x57 and trim it to 57mms... so I have nickel 7 x 57 brass... and everyone asks me "where the heck did you get that!!!)

quote:

BTW, what I want this for is hunting Elk sized game or less. 300 yards max range (really, I'm 38 and have crap eyesight. I know my limits!).

Shooting animals the size of Elk at 300 yds is better left for the 300 Win Mag with 180 grain bullets or the .338 Win mag with 210 to 250 gr bullets. Also if you have weak eyesight perhaps it would be wise to get a tad closer, and then another bit just to tip the odss in your favour. Very very few hunters that I know of can shoot a 3-inch group at 300 yds.

Warrior

I like the 280 AI suggestion. Just ordered one myself, in a Cooper 52. Seems to wring a lot out of an 06 length case.

I also have a 7mm Dakota being finished up right now. Brass is readily available, and I bought 200 pieces, figuring that was really a lifetime supply for that rifle for me--the 7 Dakota is definitely different.......

Federal ammo available for 280 Rem:

140 gr Barnes TSX 2,960 fps
150 gr Nosler Part 2,890 fps
160 gr accubond 2,800 fps

Federal ammo available for 338 Win Mag:
210 gr Nosler Part 2,830 fps

I would rather use the .338/210 gr Nosler bullet than the lighter 7 mm/150 gr bullet on elk-sized game where deeper penetration is required on angled shots. I used a .308/170 gr Grom bullet on an eland and consider it not to be ideal - it only mushroomed to 11 mm and the wound channel was too small and that on a perfect broad-side shot.

Warrior

I've been a 7x57 guy most of my life, and when I wated something with more push, I went with a custom 284 Winchester, on a Mauser action.
There really is no difference between a 280 and a 284 ballistically, I just liked the 284 case.

Don

Dear Rnovi:

I had the same dilemma. Originally, I built a 280 Remington on a 1908 Brazilian Mauser after lengthening the magazine and slightly opening the front of the feed rails for the longer case.

Kinda okay. I could have bought a new 700 Remington or selected from a few used ones off the shelf, so not too exciting.

On a Brno action with a #2 Douglas barrel, I built a 7x57 Ackley, and haven't looked back; its a cool gun. I liked it so much, that I'm building a second 7x57 Ackley on a 1940 K98k, using a lighter #1 Lilja barrel.

The advantages of the 7x57 Ackley are it fits in the original Mauser magazine (if you go that route and build using a Mauser), requires about the same feed rail work as a 280 Remington to feed properly and has about one grain less case capacity compared to the 284 Winchester. It feeds better than the 284 Winchester in a Mauser, and its only about five grains less case capacity than the 280 Remington.

The negatives are the 280 Remington is standardized, so you can get off the shelf ammunition, but not for the 7x57 Ackley, and obviously you have to form the Ackley cases.

My present 7x57 Ackley, using Reloder 22 for 140-175 grain bullets over an Oehler 35 chronograph runs about the same velocity as does the 280 Remington. It should have identical field performance.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

My dad bought me a Remington Mountain Rifle in .280 Rem when I turned 12. I love the rifle and the cartridge.

I think what you need to do is find a couple rifles that you can handle in either caliber, then choose the cartridge you want by the rifle that you like the most. Like everyone has said above, there isn't much difference.

Good Luck

I have one of each and the .280 will shade the 7x57 in all departments.

If price is no objective get one of each. If price is important get a Stevens .270 Mod. 200 , a 7 X57 and a .280 barrels from Shaw and play switch ever so often. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
I also have a 7mm Dakota being finished up right now. Brass is readily available, and I bought 200 pieces, figuring that was really a lifetime supply for that rifle for me--the 7 Dakota is definitely different.......

What rifle is that being built on? I have a Ruger #1S that I had rechambered to 7mmDakota. It's been a great rifle, accurate, flat shooting & hits game very hard w/ 160grNPs or other 160gr premiums @ 3250fps. My choice in a 7mag.

I shoot a 280 , and my buddy shoots a 7x57. Both of 'em make deer dead. The only difference between the two is that the 280 will give you more versatility . Not to the point however that a person could tell you to "just buy the 280 because it's so superior". Even with the heavier bullets considered I would say buy the one that turns your crank , and don't think twice about it.

Enough of all this talk, sell your wife or a child and get one of both. I have a Number 1 in 7x57 I will be taking Antelope hunting in another week. I am on the lookout for a .280 because I have an itch that needs to be scratched. If you think you would ever use it as an Elk gun or a back up to an Elk gun go with the .280. Not that the 7x57 would not work, as others have stated, the .280 would do a bit better with the 160's and up. Good luck making your decision on how much to ask for your wife.

The #1A weighs 7lbs acording to my ruger catalog. Mine has a 2X7 VX 2 leupold. I am suprised to learn that it weighs that much.
It is about as easy to carry in the field as a rifle can be. The overall length is very short and with the barrel band sling swivel it hangs very low.
I also have a model 70 with a douglas barrel in .280 AI.
Can't decide to sell it with dies or rebarel to the 35 whelen.
I greatly prefer my little ruger for deer , and I have a 7mm STW a .338 a 45/70 and a whelen for elk so The 280 ack gets no use at all...tj3006

Although both are great rounds, the 280 will better capitalize on the extra length of a long action; however game taken with either will never know the difference. If you want to go with a metric, the 7x64 is the way to go. It's the 280's European twin. Lou

I have 1-7-30, 2 7x57, 3 280, 2 7Rem Mags. Since I think the difference between the 257 & 7x57 is not much, I'd go with the 7mag for shooting 160-175 gr. People will tell you you can get 7 mag performance out of a 280 but you can't. Brass & ammo is hard to get for both the 7x57 & 280 but at every walmart for the 7 mag.
Although I have 3 really nice 280 customs I use the 7x57(perfect Deer round) & the 7 mag( Rainny day rifle) The mag fills your gap in a better manner. If you want to stick to the other I'd go with the 7x57 because Winchester 280 brass is nickle plated only & Remington brass sucks.

7x64 Bren has the cool factor of the x57 and the increased range and energy of the 7mm express.

plus those SPCE bullets are as smooth as greased glass.

Will take my .280 out for the first time when the Texas deer season opens next month to find out what it does on our little Whitetails, or maybe an Axis. Probably not a fair test at all, but what the heck, it's hunting with a different rifle! I only hope the .280 doesn't rip up a little deer the way a .270 does. I hate to loose all that good venison!

LLS

ill have my 7mm bren out tommorow of rifle opener here in SC. im shooting the 173 SPCE(i know heavy for caliber, but i dont want to tear up an early season meat doe).

Pick the rifle you like. There isn't enough difference in the cartridges to matter.

I personally would lean towards a 7x57. But that's me.

These are really 2 peas in the same pod. Really not much difference in 7-08,7x57,270 and 280. Buy the "gun" and choose anyone of these rounds. Theay are all great up to 300 yards which is a long enough shot. John

A long throated 7x57 will duplicate with ease any max .280 load, but you could also go with a long throated .280 and better a 7 mag with factory ammo..

I lean towards the long throated 7x57s loaded with H414, but for no particular reason other than I have used that caliber for years..The .280 is a good round and would be an excellent choice..

I don't have much experience with the .280 as I have been mostly a avid 7x57, .308, .270 and 30-06 fan most of my life. Maybe I need to correct that situation and I have just the action for it, a nice clean G33/40 and a Walthar Lothar barrel..maybe its time for a .280

I have been told the .280 is not as inherently accurate as the .270, 06 and .308..Anyone want to comment on this?

There's no doubt that a .280 Rem. will outpace the 7x57 but it does not, IMHO have the class and history of the 7x57.
Sure, factory ammo is downloaded in deference to the older weak Mausers and Remington Rolling Block rifles, but even in it's weakened state the old 7x57 kills well. It kills even better with properly worked up handloads. Whether used at factory levels, or in hotter handloads when using a modern rifle the 7x57 will kill game at any rsposible distance a hunter should shoot at. The same can be said for the .280 Remington, which can also profit by slightly hotter handloads due to the fact that pressure are kept a bit mild so that it can be used in pump and semi-auto rifles.
Accuracy in either artridge ias just fine.

For Ray: I've only run factory ammo through my .280 Rem. so far as I gather brass. The rifle is a fairly heavy barreled Argentine Mauser that so far is sub-MOA with factory ammo.
As my wife says, that rifle need wheels as it's close to 10 pounds. Wasn't quite planned that way, but that's how it came out. I'd make changes but it is too pretty to alter.
Paul B.

My 280AI started life as a 30-06 Rem. 700 XCR, so I can't comment about out of the box accuracy, but with a 25" Lilja on a blueprinted action Devcon/pillar bedded into a Boyd's JRS stock with a Timney trigger and Tubb firing pin/spring, it shoots .4" groups all day long. Admittedly, thats $1500.00 in parts and labor above the cost of the rifle, so it should preform well, but the 280 is just as accurate as the 270.

As for the question of 7x57 vs. 280, the 280 will give a flatter trajectory at any range. But a 7x57 No. 1 sounds darned nice and would be cheaper as you'd have to build a 280 bolt gun.

Brass for the 280 is easy to find as is loaded ammo from Fed., Rem., and Hornady, just as the 7x57. Equal on that front.

Flip a coin. They are both excellent rounds, but that No. 1 certainly has a cool factor to it...