Looking for ideas on the best rifle for under $2500. Brown? Jarret? Sig? HS Precision?

Must be available in .300 Wthby.

One built by me. By the way Jarrett's basic rifle is $4600.

[ 01-15-2003, 03:25: Message edited by: Elkslayer ]

Elkslayer, there is one word to use to explain what a good custom rifle gives you, confidence. My mission statement is, "We don't just sell rifles, we sell confidence." When everything is done right, you can expect a custom rifle to deliver consistent accuracy to the same point of impact all of the time, day-in day-out, year after year, no matter what the weather. I always have customers tell me that they haven't had to re-zero their rifle for ten or twelve years. They go out at the beginning of the season shoot a three shot group under 1/2" exactly the same place it printed last year and then go hunting. That allows you to know that if you miss what you are shooting at then it was YOU and not the rifles. A lot of people spend a lot of money on hunting trips. Serious, serious money. It amazes me when they do this and then don't spend an appropriate amount of money on the proper tool to do the job. No matter how much you spend on the trip, success or failure comes down to that one squeeze of the trigger. To not use the best hunting tool that you can afford is, to me, foolish.

Here we go again! If I had lot's of money and was short on time of course a custom rifle is just another tool.

And as far as speaking out that your good or the best I am all for it. When Bill Russell was asked who the greatest basketball player of all time was he answered "Me". And then he explained why. Nothing wrong with that!

I would say New Ultra light Arms in Morgantown, WV. I stoppped by his shop. These thing have it all. They are the lightest rifle made (5.25lbs scoped 308Win). SubMOA accuracy. Suberb quality. The owner Melvin, really convinced me. He took the time to show me the reasons he feels he is the best. And he broke them down for a guy like me. When I get 2500 dollars, I am going to get one.

I agree it is all about confidence. Since my Accumark was trampled by cows, even if is shoots fine I'll still have it in the back of my mind that something is not right.

So what custom gun makers are out there?

Jarret
Brown
HS Precision

Who else?

[ 01-15-2003, 03:26: Message edited by: Elkslayer ]

I'm all for buying the right tool to get the job done. If that tool costs $500 or $2500 it's up to the guy writing the check as to weather that's the right tool or not. I don't have a $2500 rifle but I have all the confidence I need in my rifles to know that when I pull the trigger, that bullet is going to hit where I aimed. If a guy doesn't have the time to go to the range and shoot more than two or three times a year, then a $2500 rifle might be the right choice for him. I am fortunate in that I live close to the range and can get out often enough to shoot. There is no better way to gain confidence in a rifle then sending rounds down range and hitting where you want it to hit.
Just my thoughts!
Elk Country

Are you including the price of the scope and mounts, or not?

Actually your price limit makes it kinda hard. You can take a $500 factory rifle, and have a good barrel fit, and a plastic stock, and end up with an accurate durable $1500 gun. If you want a nice custom, or say a Dakota, then you're looking in the $3-5k range.

I don't have any rifles in that price range, but nor do I denegrate those who can afford such guns. I do understand the differences between a factory gun and a custom, and appreciate them.

Looking for confidence, reliability and features (Mauser extractor, three position safety and integral mounts), no other rifle comes close to a Ruger 77 Mk II, and without mentioning that ruggedness and strength...

ElkSlayer, I fail to see how practice or hardwork is going to make a gun only capable of 2" groupings(due to construction, materials etc...) shoot .5" groups.

I would spend more time explaining this, but your remarks were uncalled for and not worth my time.

[ 01-15-2003, 03:26: Message edited by: Elkslayer ]

For $2500 I'd go the custom route, I was able to do it a bit cheaper, received mine in early December and it was well worth the money. I've got a new 275 Rigby that fits me and has exactly what I wanted for barrel length, finish and fit. I could have gotten to $2500 by going with a really nice wood stock but I decided on the B&C Carbelite. I wanted a good all weather gun so I could leave the pretty guns in the case when it's raining or snowing, so I got the GunKote finish and composite stock which kept it under a grand.

For factory rifles I'd look at some of the earlier Brownings, I've got gr. III and IV BAR's and a Medallion grade bolt rifle all of which you can get for ell under your limit.

GMaxson, I agree with John Lewis. If you wish to invest $2500 in a hunting rifle, I see little point in buying factory. Start with an action you like, and have a GOOD gunsmith tune the feeding and extraction, the trigger, and blueprint and rebarrel with a tube of your choosing re brand, length and contour. Have it bedded in a stock you like (for a hunting rifle probably synthetic), fitted to you re length of pull with your choice of pad, and you should have a hunting rifle that will fit YOU, and should shoot at worst a consistent 3/4" for 3 shots at 100 yards.

As an example, I love backpack sheep hunting. About 2 years ago, I decided to invest in "my" ultimate sheep rifle. I considered the Weatherby Ultralight, but after research I went ahead and had it built instead. If I'd bought the Weatherby, I would have gotten a factory rifle, with factory tolerances, factory barrel and in chrome moly not stainless. When the smoke cleared I had a 284 Winchester in a M70 classic stainless short action tuned and blueprinted with an awesome trigger, a Pac-Nor 23" stainless super-match barrel pillar bedded in a Bansner stock with decelerator pad for less than $100 more than the Weatherby would have cost. All built EXACTLY as I specified. With a Swarovski 3-9X36 AV mounted in Conetrol rings it weighs just under 7# with perfect balance on the front guard screw. It will put 3 140-grain partitions into 0.6" at 3050 fps and 139 SST's under 0.4" at the same velocity. Sure blows the factory job out of the water.

Elkslayer, your lecturing man. Thats not cool, if there is a gun you recommend then spit it out. Who know this guy might outhunt you any day of the week. Nobody likes to be talked down too. Out of all your retoric, you don't really mention a firearm. I have the cheaper guns that get the job done and use them every year. But I have held beutiful guns that I have wanted, but know I won't be able to have. Like the New Ultra Light arms. This guns selling point is being light but accurate. See, a guy asks, you answer.

And getting a factory grade rifle sure don't guantee you subMOA groups even with the wisest marksman. Espeically with the barrels on these piece of junk guns these days.

[ 01-15-2003, 02:52: Message edited by: bigcountry ]

GMaxson

Ed Brown rifles are really nice. I choosen to buy ED's action for my project in 300 wby. I will have a friend of mine building it for me.

Get an action you like and have a smith build a rifle to your specifications. David Tooley is a great smith and I think our dear member Lewis can do a fine work too. McBros also makes nice actions and rifles.

Confidence is very important. The rifles I have confidence in are the most used ones, the others are sold or traded.

Good Luck

/ JOHAN

[ 01-15-2003, 12:31: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

Savage99 - you are right, a man has to have confidence in what he produces. I never have been one to too my horn about myself personally, but I do believe in what I do. We build some of the most accurate hunting rifles in the world. We use the best components and have been doing it for a long time. I helped Kenny Jarrett build the first custom rifles built there and ran his shop for 9 years. I've been out on my own for 12 years. I've been building rifles for over half of my life. The guy that works with me started at Jarrett's 14 years ago and has been with me for about 10 yrs. I will not claim, unlike some others, that I am the only person that knows how to build an accurate rifle. Nor will I claim I'm the best, that would be the height of arrogance and stupidity. There are some really fine rifle builders out there. D'Arcy Echols, Dave Tooley, John Ricks, Jim Borden and a few others. There are probably one or two dozen that have the commitment to accracy and reliablity that can build a good rifle. I'm probably going to make some people mad with my next statement. With few exceptions(Mel Forbes for example) anyone that makes over 50 or 60 rifles a year isn't one of the best. They simply can't devote enough time to each rifle.

Also, back to what somebody else said. Confidence in the rifle is only part of it. You have to have confidence in yourself. And the only way to get that is trigger time. You have to shoot a lot, so that you will know that you can put the bullet where it is supposeto go. You can have the best rifle in the world, and if you can't shoot, you're going to fail. I can't help you with that. All I can do is provide you with a rifle you can rely on.

Ok, since you guy's have me leaning toward the custom rifle route, what benefits can I expect in a custom rifle over my Accumark?

John Lewis, do you have a web site?

Any comments on Ed Brown? I think I'd be looking at $3200 or so for what I would want from one of his rifles.

Money is not the object if it is justified with a higher quality product. I'm not out to spend 5k for the sake of spending 5k. But if spending an extra grand is going to be really noticable in some respect then it would be worth it.

So, any input on custom rifles would be appreciated.

Thanks
Gene

Gene, my website is under construction. We just started on it a few weeks ago, so there isn't a lot on it yet, but it is www.cprifles.com.

What you are going to get with a custom rifle is:better barrel, better chamber, better trigger, better fit to you, a rifle that is better balanced for you, better stock, usually better accuracy(occasionally factory rifles shoot really well), consistent point of impact.

Thanks John. The Accumark has a synthetic stock, CNC-machined bedding plate, a Krieger™ Criterion™ free-floated fluted barrel. Is there anything else that is going to differentiate a custom rifle as being noticably better then this? Not trying to be difficult, just trying to make sure the extra money is justified.

Hot Core - I look forward to seeing you. Bring the Mk V with you and I'll adjust it while you wait if you want. I keep spring stock, but not pre-cut springs.

Gene - There are several problems with the AccuMark. One is that even though the bedding block is in there, it is no substitute for bedding the action to the stock. The block is a good foundation, nothing else. Secondly, the Kreiger "Criterion" barrel is no where close to the good quality of Kreiger's regular barrels or barrels by Hart, Schneider, Pac-Nor, Shilen, or Lilja. It is a mass produced rifle. Some will shoot well, some won't. That's the way it is with factory rifles. Most of the time, with a little tinkering, they will shoot fairly well.

Thanks John, I'm getting some good information.

I've never purchased a custom gun before. Any suggestions? How should I decide who to go with? How do you get the stock to fit right for someone in another state? How do you decide on the best pieces to build your gun? I really like the Mark V action as opposed to the Remington are there any reasons to not go with the Mark V? I've noticed that I think it was HS Precision that sends you load information of a round that will produce a .5" group in your gun, is it the norm to have to hand load to get that size grouping? This is all new to me so any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

GMaxon,

The 300 Wby is a great round for covering all the bases. What will you be hunting with it?

I'm in the process of building my first semi-custom rifle. It will be tailored to my preferences and should be very accurate. The overall cost will be ~$1000 when I'm all said and done. The guys over at www.24hourcampfire.com have been a great resource for info on this as well as many of the regulars on this board.

Here's what I'm putting together:

SS Rem 700 ADL/BDL
McMillan Moutain Rifle KS stock
- Pillar bedded w/ tan/black spider web finish
Pac-Nor 22-24" #3 contour barrel in 25-06
All metal teflon coated
Leupold DD matte rings/bases
Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm(possibly w/ elavation turret)

If I were doing a 300 Wby, I'd put on a 26" #3 or fluted #4 contour barrel and start crunchin' critters!!!

Good luck and keep us posted.

A man may spend his money ant way he sees fit, but it will be very cool in hell when I spend $2500 on any rifle made on 700 Rem or any other stamped out pusfeed action. But that is a personal thing on my part, and in no way prevents anyone else from doing so!

CUSTOM means only that a rifle was made to SOMEBODY'S specifications,usually the builder,today, instead of the customer, and that fact does, in no way means the result is the RIGHT TOOL for what you want the rifle for. .5" groups, are SOMETHING, when you are target shooting, but means little to someone shooting a Grizzley, or Cape buffalo at 20 yds! Convercely, the rock solid reliability of a well finished CRF action,and balanced rifle or a double rifle, means absolutely nothing to a man who is sitting at a rotateing bench rest on a trailer, at some praire dog town. As someone above said, there are real smiths, and there are plumbers, both claiming to be the top of the tit when it comes to building rifles. One chargeing three times what another charges, is no guarentee his product is better!

I submit some of the most well known custom smiths, are no better, than some of those not so well known, the former, being well known, mostly, by the credit they give themselves.

A rifle that has only one goal, to print .5" groups, seems a little myopic to me, and is not my idea of the best hunting rifle, if that is it's only claim to fame. But then what do I know, I've only been hunting for 60 years?

I know a lot of folks that can make rifles shoot accurately,me included, but I certainly would demand a lot more, If I wanted to stay alive in the Alders with a Brownie, and the first thing I would demand, is a control feed action!

So what I'm saying is, you must decide what "YOU" want the rifle to do best, if only one thing, done well, is enough for you,fine, but IMO, if the rifle is to be used for hunting, the real custom lies someplace in the middle of the road, with many things done well, and to be a real custom, it has to be made the way "YOU" want it, not the smith!

Most rifles, even cheap ones, will shoot tighter groups, than most hunters can hold in the field, right out of the box, and if it doesn't, a little bedding, and a trigger, is usually all that is required to make it do so!

I didn't offer a spicific rifle within your price range, because the so-called experts will sell you something they call perfect for a lot more,that may or may not do one thing better than something else, when they could give you something more suited to your purpose for a bunch less! That is the nature of free interprize, and as it should be! I just say Buyer beware, and make sure what you are buying is what YOU want!

The above is only one man's opinion, and is worth exactly what you are paying for it. If you disagree that is fine, that is your right, as this opinion is my right. Use it if it will help, skip it if it won't!

Mac, I agree with most of what you said. I don't completely agree with you about the 700s because I think they are a fine action for most purposes. If I was going after dangerous game, I also would want a CRF action. I will build a customer a rifle on almost any action he wants, with a big part of the rifles I build utilizing M70s.My philosophy on building rifles has always been to recommend what I think is best to accomplish a customer's goals, and then to do whatever he wants me to do, within reason of course. I won't do anything I feel to be unsafe. Many riflesmiths do build only what they want the customer to have. I think that is a mistake, but if people keep buying from them, oh well.

I am planning on having a rifle built by Hart barrels. Rem action, Hart fluted #4 douglas taper barrel, McMillan stock. I have also seen the UltraLight Arms rifles and have wanted one ever since Melvin handed me one, but $2,500 is over my limit.

Hot Core, I think Melvin's choice to deny you a rifle he does not want to build says volumes of his integrity as a gunsmith. He is obviously interested in building the best rifle possible for the $$, so building a rifle to the customer's specs, (knowing he does not agree with it's construction) and taking the cash was not on his agenda. I must admire that philosophy....

B26354

I have an New Ultra Light Arms 300WSM. I also have a NULA .22 Rimfire on order. The 300WSM is the first rifle I had "made" for me. After talking to Mel numerous times, I decided to make the plunge. When I received it, there was a problem with the feeding on it. I was disappointed and frustrated after spending that much on a rifle not to have it function perfectly with factory ammunition. Some of you may remember my posts last summer about this. Anyway.....after this problem, I was even more impressed with Mel. He paid to overnight the rifle both ways, and got the problem fixed. Turned out there was a problem with the heat-treating from some of the feeding springs due to the fact that he was using a new supplier. He volunteered to me that I wasn't the only one with this problem, and that it was "his" fault, so he would "make it right". He is a man of his word. Every time I shoot my rifle, I'm impressed with how well it shoots - any factory load (150BTs, 180Failsafes, 180 Trophy Bonded) under MOA with my cheapo sandbag rest and a knucklehead behind the trigger. This is the rifle that I'm taking to Zimbabwe in May for the majority of my plains game shooting. Was it expensive? It was for me - I'm a poor government worker. Was it worth it? Yep. Just like when I bought my Leica's - seemed expensive at the time - now I wonder how I ever did without them. Jeff

If you shop for something substantial with a low price as your guide, you're happy one time.....when you pay for it.

If you shop for something substantial with quality as your guide, you're unhappy one time.....when you pay for it. <grin>

Ngrumba, is the recoil manageable with this rifle in 300WSM? The one I was looking at was in .308. About how much do you think it weighs in that caliber scoped? Thanks for the info. These days, I want light after my trip moose hunting with a 13lb rifle in Newfoundland.

Who would y'all recommend build a custom based on the Ruger No. 1?

Hobie - at the risk of sounding too much like an ad. I do a lot of work on #1s, including complete custom #1s.

Paul,

I think you've really touched on some good points. I've got a good idea of what I want even if I haven't really nailed down some specifics. What I want is not that different from a factory No. 1A except:

the chambering, 9.3x74R.
the barrel length, 24".
the stock, laminated walnut on walnut.

In fact, a 1S in .35 Whelen would probably work. However, if I have to put a barrel on it, why not go the rest of the way?

If you see something wrong with my reasoning, please clue me in.

Win Model 70 Classic.

Of course, when I actually looked at the catalog (always a good thing to do), I see that the 1-S comes in .338 Winchester Magnum. Now this cartridge doesn't exactly get me all hot and sweaty, but it is pretty good and was the cartridge Elmer Keith recommended to me in 1979(?). Perhaps I should buy that and shoot it a bit to figure out EXACTLY what I want to change...

Of course that would be about $1200 ready to shoot vs. ?

Hobie, what do you shoot now?

I'd love to have a 9.3X74 in a #1, would be a really classy way to go, but I'd go with a 26" barrel. Then again, I'd also like a #1 in 470 and 500 NE as well You can get barreled actions from Brownells if you are going to be putting a new stock on it, might as well not pay for the factory one.

A factory 338 is certainly practicle, and a fine hunting round