I had a rem700BDL-222rem made in 70s' that was extremely accurate, hovering around .5" and less with elcheapo factory ammo. Like rems or not, an accurate rifle can make you accept overlook certain things you would otherwise not be happy with.
The only rem700 type reciever I like these days, If i was to consider one,is the integral featured SURGEON.
>> http://www.surgeonrifles.com/ <<

Slim the bolt handle and whitle away most of the integral base to suit Talleys, would create a very neat uncomplicated mountain rifle receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:

She's purdy.

We better get out our waders cause it's gettin' pretty deep in here.

I own and have shot piles of Remingtons, never have I been let down by any of them and never have I had the BS problems people talk about on the web.

The model 700 is the rifle of choice on the ranges around here. You can ask any range master whats the most consistently accurate rifle that comes to his range and they'll say a Model 700.

They have a strong reputation and will keep one for a long time to come and that's a fact.

They still make em' accurate as well regardless of the crap that get's typed here on the net. The last 4 new Remingtons I've purchased in the last year or two have all shot less than 1/2 MOA. Now you tell me of another current manufacturer that you could randomly buy 4 new rifles from and them all shoot less than 1/2 MOA? Most likely not gonna happen. I would buy a different brand if they were as good as the Remington but, I've tried Wins, Rugers, Savage, etc. and they just can't shoot w/ the Remingtons on average and they are much more of a gamble for accuracy when you purchase them. I use Remington rifles because they are very accurate, very dependable, very easy to modify shall the need arise, and you don't have to sell the farm to buy one.

Remington still builds a good one and that's a fact.

Reloader

Ok this is just beating a dead horse on my part but since no one else has mentioned it I was wondering if this had happened to anyone else:

The bolt fell out of a Remington rifle while being carried over the left shoulder. No kidding. Happened twice, once to a friend with a 788 in 308, we never found the bolt. Ruined my friends weekend to say the least. Another time a client had the bolt "come out" of his Rem. 700, we did find it a few yards down the hill. Remington got no repeat customers out of that hunting camp.

If you want a rifle that works well you have to spend some money on it. Either get a gunmsith to build it for you from scratch or get an action style that you are comfortable with and spend some $$$ on fit and function. When I want some thing new I go to gun shows until I find the basic action I want and then send it off to my gunsmith to work on. What I get back is a rifle that functions properly and wil give me no problems. The price? The last one was right at $1000. Pretty good actually. My next project will likely be a bit more, maybe $1200 or even $1500. More than a "New" Remington or Ruger? Yes but, what about the piece of mind that I get knowing that the rifle will preform as expected.

two people in one hunting camp losing their bolts, and not even noticing it? irreguardless of manuf,..that seems like more of an operator issue than a rifle issue I mean,..I have NEVER lost a part off of my rifle, no matter what I was doing or how I carried it.

I have locked up the bolt on a 300RUM (custom BR rifle w/match chamber on a 700 action) on a 95* day with a bit of a hot load but as I BEAT the bolt handle both UP and BACK,..guess what happened?????? the shell came out and I went back to shooting. Imagine that

and,...until the line is swamped in something other than the rem700, then I will lean on the fact that the gunsmithing community and the competition community have chosen the rem 700 as the go-to action before they pony up for a custom action.

as to design,...those comments are laughable if one takes a look at the footprint for the majority of the custom actions, the surgeon, many of the BR actions etc,..you will find the design features from the rem 700 are present. Now,..we are talkning CUSTOM here,..that means I DON'T CARE WHAT IT COSTS. Now why would these features (action shape, trigger attachments, bolt shrouds, bolt bodies, magazines, scope bases etc) be built into a full custom action???? please don't even try to say it is manufacturing cost,...if the design didn't work, the BR shooters could give a rat's hard dick what the manufacturing cost was, or what the retail was,..CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T USE THEM. However, even the BAT action is a derivative of the rem700,..and lets look at the bolt shroud and trigger attachment of both the Stolle, BAT, Nesika, etc etc etc. Rem 700 all the way.

There is fact and there is opinion,..one should work diligently not to confuse the two.

Not to say other manuf don't have some great features (claw extraction, integral lug, gas deflection) but until they set as many records, they are simply second best. AND,..that is MHO

I don't care about the rest,..if it isn't bench accurate, I ain't carrying it. And, if 2" was acceptable to all of us, then this discussion wouldn't even exist,..cause any peice of garbage off the shelf can pull that off.

2" is not ok with me either, secondly, I have seen many Rem's that when you took the bolt out and reinserted it, the button under the action failed to re-engage the the bolt when retracted rearward continued until the bolt came completely out of the action, not being stopped, one has to manually pull that lever out under the trigger guard area, they get sticky and fail to return to proper position.

I believe it can happy. I have also had a Win 70 mag release button get bumped and drop all my shells in the snow, and I am sure I am not the first.

Murphy's law, but there is something to be said for the quality control of various brands. How many problems with extractor's, bolt handles (I KNOW I have heard of broken handles by many more shooters), etc. have you heard by say Sako?

I have NOT once heard any complaints about the pre-Garcia era Sako's. Perhaps that is why they are sought after. What about say a Husqvarna? Heard of them? Heard anyone complain? Hear of anything breaking on Interarms Mark X actions/guns?

Interesting. Sure, as production #'s go up, sheer #'s of faulty products rise, perhaps Rem's success has been their achilles heel.

Yes, many are accurate. I have witnessed and owned many other brands that were also.

Seen a Browning Abolt shoot out of the box groups in a nickel with 270 130 corelokt.

My 7/08 micro medallion I owned shot like my Varmint 708 REMINGTON

My 243 1885 low wall would shock you it was so accurate, how about the first 2 shots in a half inch at 200 yds.

Accuracy is not a REMINGTON exclusive my friends.

MANY brands shoot well also. Accuracy alone does not make a great hunting rifle, Reliability must come first even though yes accuracy must be there for me to keep a gun.

Hey, if anyone wants I have a 221 FB on a 700 action, only 300-400 rounds fired, HART barrel COMPLETELY trued action, its for sale. See my ad in the classified. It is accurate. Shot in the threes with a 3-9x scope w/o AO. Rem lovers ought to drool.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

My first big game rifle was a Remington Model 700 ADL in 243 Winchester with a production date around 1968 that I bought used in 1976 for $160.00 in Reading, Pennsylvania. This rifle with reloaded ammunition NEVER shot a five shot group over one inch at 100 yards.

The trigger was fantastic, safety not well designed, but it worked and locked the bolt when on safe, barrel excellent, extractor and ejector okay. It even extracted an overloaded case where the head separated after extraction (my error in reloading at age 15).

Ignorantly, I traded it for a brand new 1993 VSS Remington 700 in 22-250. I was told that my gun was off the used shelf in 20 minutes. The new Remington 700 could not shoot under two inches at 100 yards after rebedding, trigger job, etc.

Approximately 25 new and used rifles later, I started putting them together myself. And after much research and experimentation, I have settled on 1898 Mauser actions. They don't seem to fail, are extremely safe in handling escaping gas from a failed case and I can make them shoot with the right components.

Unfortunately, there are only a finite number out there. Guess its time for a new manufacturer.

Yalie

I have always been a pre-64 model 70 fan, but bought and used Remington because they were cheaper and I'm a cheapskate. Having tortured many 700s, I can honestly say it is anything but junk. Having stuck a bolt and beating it open with a soft-blow hammer, it never broke, nor have I broken an extractor, but I have worn a few out.
I also have to say I agree with Yale's comments on the mauser action. Over the years smart money has always been bet on mausers, especially on custom jobs.

quote:

The thing that "sucks" about Rugers IMO is the fact that they are very inaccurate on average. You can usually find 10 Model 700s that shoot lights out for every 1 Ruger that shoots ok

Is that a quantifiable and verifiable statistic or did it just pass through a whole bunch of tecostal foliage?

I have just two (2) Rugers a 338 Stainless Composite and a 416 Rigby RSM. The 338 is "as is" and it's a sub MOA shooter with my handloads while I did have some work done on the 416 Rigby, it was also sub MOA and the work I had done to it had nothing to do with improving accuracy.

I've only owned ONE (1) Remington and will not own another and while I cannot condemn a particular rifle after just owning one, I've seen enough and READ ENOUGH regarding the 700 that I wouldn't own one personally. jorge

I agree that Remington doesn't have a Monopoly on accuracy. I saw a Mountain Rifle in 270 that did good to keep on a saucer at 100 yards. At the time I had a Ruger 270 that you could cover 5 shots with a Quarter at 100 yards. I have 2 Stainless Classic Winchesters now that shoot well under an inch with factory ammo. I have 2 more that do good to keep 3 shots in an inch and a half. I think as a whole Remington makes an accurate rifle and I have seen several that would really shoot but I don't like the safety and I prefer the controlled feed action. Just my preference. Many of the new Savage Rifles shoot fantastic but I hate the look of them.

Hawkeye47

The fact is that there are good shooting Rugers and good shooting Rems, and some bad ones. That said the stock on a Ruger fits me well, and I like the action and I can make the triggers good in 15 minutes and they are cheap. I will agree with 6.5BR that the old FN's from the 50's are quality all the way. I have four of them and will buy all I can if the price is right. They are better finished on the inside than the outside of a Rem or Ruger. They also wouldn't be selling new for $500 regularly either. The Ruger is just plain and simple a tough, reliable hunting rifle that fits me well and I've shot a lot of game with them and never felt like they had to be babied in the field. Pretty or super smooth they ar enot.

Let's see, how is that saying I read somewhere once? Oh yes, it goes like this:

"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."

I have a Ruger, and several Remingtons. Never a problem with any, yet anyway. I'm rather fond of my pieces of sh_t. They shoot good enough for me and I've never had a structural problem, extraction problem, whatever.

DJpointless

Reigning expert? NO, im speaking from experience, didnt list how many i have owned but have never seen a bolt handle fall off, or an ejector fail, have you? Or are you just regurgitating the bull shit? Are they the best design? Didnt say they were the best, then again they dont cost thosands of dollars.

My 700 has never seen a smith and shoots sub 1 MOA from day one, but oh i must assume that its an annomoly, makes a lot of sense.

6.5

If this has happened to you then i will believe it, its just that so much crap is run around on the internet i wont believe anyone unless it has happend to them.

Remington quality has definately gone down hill but unfortunately so has much of the stuff made in America.

The more rifles a company produces the more problems will occur, and yes a bolt falling off is not acceptable, but this is the first i have ever heard of such a thing, what year was the rifle made?

I will buy a rifle that i perceive is accurate and cost effective i dont care about brand loyalty, i own Savage, Ruger, Browning, and Winchester rifles and they are all pretty accurate, are they perfect? hell no! But for the cost they do very well.

My Savage 110 is ugly as all get out, but that thing shoots real well, it was my first center-fire rifle and was a real bargain.

Im looking real hard at a couple of Mannlicher Schoenaeur's in 6.5X54 so as for new rifles i wont be buying any too soon.

EVERYTHING I told you happened to me. I have had and own some rems that have no problems and shoot well, but I have had JUNK ones also, I would have to research the years, but again the bolt fell off after firing, it was not 'beat on' ever. It was a stainless 270 ADL syn originally, only made a yr or two in early 90's, and I have heard of others. I purchased a 338 SS BDL and the bolt handle underneath -when you looked at the brazing, was VOID of much material, so instead of being 'reactive' I sent it to Rem BEFORE I had to see if it would hold or break.

I am not making any of this up. Pays your money and takes your chances. I would imagine that the odds of a bolt handle breaking or extractor failing on a Rem might be 5-10% or less, but it does and has happened, and I wish to avoid those issues, so I avoid Rem. The ones I own now.....7/08 BDL SS, 708 BDL varmint, and 708 VLS, 221 FB custom, model 7 custom barreled.

I have owned/fired/sold many more. No complaint on the 600's I had and the one 788.

I think rem quality went down the tubes in the 90's and until they stopped the jlock, never even considered buying another. And I have yet to buy another in many years.

If you ask some reputable gunsmiths around the country, they are likely 'in the know' as to failures on handles/extractors. A knowledgeable friend bought a sendero years ago in a 300 mag or possibly 7mag/7STW, it would NEVER shoot better than 2-2.5" and he sent it back. Remington said that it shot within their specs.

Well, that was not good enough. He shoots many guns that do one hole groups, sub moa is the norm and I have seen him and his rifles shoot.

I think QC was very inconsistent, one can imagine that in a plant, there are good, bad, and mediocre workers assembling them over time.

Maybe it's like buying a car-they say you want a GM or Ford that was built on a Wed, not Friday.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by fgulla:
1994 Remington classic in 6.5X55- Awesome wood with great figure, and inletted perfectly, first three shots into 3/4" never a glitch or problem, this rifle is scary accurate and always puts its bullet where it counts.

Extractors failing, bolt falling off, sounds like a bunch of bull shit to me. You dont get a great reputation for accuracy with crap falling apart. Then again i've seen people abuse stuff pretty good and then complain like a little girl when it breaks. Im more apt to believe in user error than anythig else.

So you own 1 Remington and think you are the reigning expert on them? And just because you were lucky enough to have a good one that none of the others have problems?
I haven't had an extractor fail or bolt handle fall off but I have had a couple that wouldn't eject fired shell including 2 brand new ones. I've also seen several including new ones on the shelf that won't reset the trigger by lifting the bolt straight up and down.

Remington's can be made into nice rifles. The barrels are usually pretty good but often require pretty expensive gunsmithing to get all the of the accuracy that they are capable of. The older ones I had were better made than the newer ones.........................DJ

Fgulla, since you didn't seem to read my entire reply the first time you might try again. I've been specific about what problems have happened to my personaly owned Remington firearms. Also having worked at a Gunsmith shop I've run into a bunch more Remington's with issues. Before you start calling BS on everything you might actually read what people say before you start insulting them.
People who refuse to admit problems never solve them. If Remington would listen to some of the complaints issued against them they might be able to improve their product. Most of the complaints are about the new made versions which aren't to the same quality as ones they use to make. Admittedly some of the criticism tries to bend more towards Humor than constructivity but there are some who would really like to see them make a better product......................DJ

Jorge, Consider yourself very lucky that the only two Rugers you own are very accurate that is VERY rare. I've shot several Rugers in the last 10 or so years and I've never shot one that was sub MOA nor do I know anyone locally that has one that's sub MOA. I know several guys that own them and if you would have read the rest of my post you would have seen my comment about how I do like the Ruger set-up but, I will not own one for their accuracy problems.

The Funny thing is Jorge, I've shot a pile of 700s and I've honestly never shot one that was inaccurate or had any of the bull crap problems you hear on the net. I work on rifles on the side for a hobby (custom loads, cleaning, stock work, trigger jobs, minor gunsmithing etc.) and the three most accurate low priced bone stock Hunting rifles I've worked w/ were 700s and the BOSS equiped Abolts and 70s. Another brand that puzzles me is Savage, they have such a reputation for accuracy and though I've only worked w/ a handful they were just barely sub MOA on average which is not bad at all but just not as well as I expected them to be.

Reloader

I've never questioned the accuracy of the 700s, never. It's all the other problems that I take issue with. They are just not for me and I'll leave it at that. jorge

if remington were to fix the "problems" that most folks seem to go on about,..those very same people would then not buy the rem700 as they would then complain about the new price after MUCH more production costs were incurred and the price then went up so that the company could afford to stay in business.

it amazes me that folks want custom guns for wal-mart prices.

I simply use it until or if I see an issue,..then I send it to a gunsmith, not back to the factory. Sorry,..I would rather pay a gunsmith than to have billy bob on the production line simply put it back into "factory specs". Don't matter who made it,..the gunsmith fixes it if it needs it,..that's my way of doing things.

Hey Reloader in NORTH LA, where are you?

I just shot this a.m. at 330 yards with my RUGER #1 6BR and shot a .741 outside to outside with 3 shots, subtract the bullet and it shot .498.

How is that for a Ruger?

Obviously everyone's experience varies with their guns, just like cars. Perhaps I just have bad luck as my Acura has had 4 transmissions go out in under 80k, yes there was a recall, but do you think I will ever buy another?

Hey JustC, I think if you added up truing an action, barreling, fixing any defective parts, you could pay for a Kimber or Sako or similar and never have to touch the gun, and if you sell it, get more of your money back. That is just me.

I watch how my $'s are spent, and I would NEVER take a Rem on an expensive big game hunt out of state where you have limited time, and chance a broken bolt handle again.

Trust me, anyone that gets burned like that is an idiot to stick their hand back in the fire, as they had a warning so to speak.

Write Rem and ask if they have returned rifles for bolt handles breaking, they do I am sure. Extractors also.

How RARE that may be is of NO consequence if YOU are the one it happens to my friend.

Besides pure economics reasons, there is another as why Remington is importing now a true Mauser 98 action...

And that reason, at least to my eyes lies in the fact that everyday there are more and more shooters that prefer that action, and of course, Remington is not going to produce again the great model 54, and now that Winchester is in the past at least for some time now, the "Classic" action is no longer available.

It's a fact that Remington's bolt handles as made of several parts and soldered break, as well as their weak extractors...

Why is that there are so many aftermarket parts available for the Rem than for any other brand?

Besides popularity it's costs and a REAL NEED to improve on the factory product. If not, please ask these companies why they have succeded.

As for accuracy, the previous posts demonstrate that it's not a fact and not an exclusive feature. Just talk to happy Tikka T3 users, as well as CZs

quote:

Acura has had 4 transmissions go out in under 80k

That's a bummer for sure.

6.5br, I'm over in Minden, not too far from Shreveport in the North West Corner of the state.

I was speaking about Bolt rifles and not #1s, I should have made that clear. Thanks for correcting me.

Reloader

zm

Reloader, no need to apologize, I wanted to illustrate the accuracy I received with a NON rem bolt gun.

Anyway, I am due west about 25 miles from you. I met someone long ago via phone is Dorcheat area not sure. It might have been you, send me a pm with your name sometime.

as far as spending the same money as for a sako,..that would be correct. However, the point is that you already paid for that when you payed all the extra money for that sako. You get as much as you are willing to pay for. BUT, will I take a boxed sako to a match? NO, will I take the trued rem 700 to a match,..YES.

as to the hunting use,..my Sendero is what I carried in WY a few years back. And even if the bolt were to have failed on my trip, 1. I wouldn't assume that it would happen again the next time and abandon a perfectly good rifle and 2. the local shop could have fixed your rem 700 with parts they had on hand, no matter where you were hunting unless you dropped in by a puddle jumper, and even then a trip from camp to town could have been arranged.

I have a ruger that ONLY resides in my safe because of shooting well under MOA and prolly closer to 1/2moa with my loads. It is a pencil barreled M77 MKII in 30-06 SS with a laminated boyds JRS stock. No gunsmithing at all,.and it shoots great. I also have a PF model 70 that I will be taking to some 600yd BR matches over the next few months.

Point is,..I have had the rem 700 do just about everything I have asked it to,..from truck gun to BR out to 1000yds. I will only this year be ordering my first custom action,..should be another 4 months or so (BAT "b" action, dual port). However, the fallbacks are all built on the rem actions,..as even in BR, the extractor and bolt handle have not put me at any disadvantage and not failed. I have confidence in the rem actions and will take one first most any time I am given a choice. Not to say others havn't had them fail in one way or another,..but hey, I have sent back $1500 scopes for failures as well as several of my Suburbans,..and they are far from the cheapest trucks on the lot. Law of numbers..........

I know a couple of hunters that shoot Sakos. I'm not impressed.

JustC,

I don't know how involved it is to 'braze' a bolt handle, but if I am hunting, and this happened, I would be looking to find another rifle pronto, not wait and miss a day, two, or the whole split of the season on a out of town trip to the mountains.

I am happy you have not had the headache of the issues I had with Rem.

Doc, I shot a 7 shot group with a 243 Sako A2 series with red/white box federal 100gr at 200 yds, it measured 1 1/4". I WAS impressed. My pre-Garcia did very well also.

Bench accuracy is nice, my Ruger #1 6BR shot a .498 3 shot group at 330yds this a.m. I have a 4-16x 4200 elite on it.

But I would not go to the mountains with it, not the appropriate gun for my needs, I have used it in a stand and waxed a whitetail at 400 yds, just after downing the first one at 200 seconds later.

Again, if YOU were sitting at the range and fired a shot, from a rifle that had only a few hundred rounds at best through it, and grabbed the bolt handle and it just fell off, would you carry it in the field again?

Not me. It would not deserve it, I would not and could not trust it, and the company that screwed it up during the mfg. would not deserve my future hard earned $'s.

Oh Doc, I seem to recall, a Tikka Continental in 6.5x55 set a record at 1000 yds

Finnish rifle with flair: Tikka's M595 Continental Varminter
Guns Magazine, Feb, 2003 by David M. Fortier, Emily K. Fortier<< Page 1 Continued from page 3. Previous | Next

I have to admit I took a liking to the Tikka M595 Continental. It's a handsome and well-made rifle with a slick action. Accuracy was very good, as seems to be a trait of Tikka rifles. This can be seen in the fact the 1999 British Long-Range Benchrest Championship was won by a Tikka Continental in 6.5x55. Group size was an almost unbelievable 10 rounds into 4.4 inches at 1,000 yards. Anyone looking for an accurate out-of-the-box varmint rifle would do well to consider a Tikka.

Hey Doc, Tikka is SAKO's entry level rifle. I think they do pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
if remington were to fix the "problems" that most folks seem to go on about,...

They did fix their problems! They went to a Zastava Mark X CRF action, on the new mod 798

Three Model 700s and one Ruger Tang Safety Model 77, and all four of them into one hole with the proper handloads.

I am a lefty, and that severely limits the availability of LH rifles without it costing significantly more, but I will say this: there are Monday rifles from every manufacturer. I have never had a bolt handle come off, and don't expect to. The Model 77 my son shoots is accurate, and that is all that matters. I like the tang safety, don't care for the Remingtons that open on safe, but I can't change that design. Other than that, I am happy with my 700s...

It is easy to upgrade a lever that allows the 700 to be on safe mode and operate bolt. Safeties are also prone to Murphy's law as many people have learned. Muzzle safe direction is best safety.

FWIW, I've only owned two Rems's, a 788 (very accurate but very 'clunky' to operate, and a 700 that was reasonably accurate, but nothing to write home about. I have a pre '64 Win (very accurate - crappy trigger and all) and I've owned several Ruger 77's, both tang safety (my preference) and MkII - my current favourite... Once I had adjusted the bedding screws to be 'right', my Rugers have always grouped better, and more consistently than the Rem's I've owned.

The above is not the really the point of this post, other than to illustrate that I don't have an agenda either way...

I see frequent references to the issues concerning the operation of the safety on a rifle, and how the safety is supposed to lock the bolt down when in the 'on' position.

Personally, I never rely on the safety, I use the 'bolt up' as the safety indicator - I can see if others are 'safe' adn they can see that I am 'safe' - the bolt goes down only when actually 'on the game'...

I would have thought that having the safety 'on' with the bolt closed would be nice, but when the moment passes, being able to flick the bolt handle up would be a good thing? After all, if the safety is on, and the bolt closed, there is a chambered round in a cocked rifle - if the safety fails for whatever reason, you have a potentially dangerous situation - bolt up, rifle cannot fire...

Am I missing something?

Oh, and in case you're wondering, where I hunt, the hunting/shooting action can shift from fast and furious to nothing, then back to fast and furious in a matter of minutes, if not seconds... feral pest eradication...

The Bolt handle arguement always makes me laugh.

The bolt handle debate and extractor debate have always seemed silly to me.

I've never even heard of one coming off, never even heard a gunsmith talk about them coming off. Then you get on the net and hear all sorts of bs. I've beat on 700 bolt handles w/ a rubber mallet and you guessed it, none of them went flying off .

The extractor gripes are just that, gripes from folks that prefer other type of extractors. I've noticed that almost everyone that gripes about 700 extractors has never had one fail it's just something they heard from someone who heard from someone that they might fail...

Again, never seen or heard of a 700 extractor failing until I read it on the net...

Do 700s have the best Bolt handles available? No. Did anyone here say they were?

Do they have the "Best" extractor? No. Did anyone here say they did?

Do the extractors and bolt handles work perfectly well for 99.999% of there owners?

When you have the single most popular bolt rifle on the market in such mass numbers, there's bound to be a defect w/ a few of them. That's the way it is w/ every product on the market period.

Reloader,

Great you never had problems with your 700's. I have personall, and because of that, will not trust them. Just because you have not talked to enough people in the know and/or just doubt what you yourself cannot see, does not mean it did not and does not happen. WHY would people put Sako extractors in Rem guns if the Rem were good enough and failsafe?

Why do people 'pin' the bolt handles on Rem rifles? Oh, I guess you have not heard of that either. Contact some reputable gunsmith, and other people in the industry in the know, and ask. If you call bs to my experience, then your head is in the sand. Are you the Remington Rep?

99% is not good enough when yours fails. Odds and statistics are relevant, to who it does and does not affect.

We agree to disagree.

Reloader,

Unfortunately, Remington M700 WAS DESIGNED AND CONSTRUCTED to be CHEAP orin another words TO GENERATE A GOOD MARGIN PROFIT.

Of course, there is nothing wrong in trying to make a dollar that way...however you must recognize the very fact that the M700 replaced the Model 54, a fantastic Mauser 98 derivative which costed much more to produce.

And yes, when you want a chepa product for the masses, you must accept certain shortcuts, like the broken bolt handles, the extractors, etc, etc

It's a fact and just take a look, a good closer look at the design and for sure you will notice the issues we were talking about.

Again, not a bad rifle, but a very cheap one.

It's not a surprise that Tikkas are selling so well. Design, quality and price.

quote:

Just because you have not talked to enough people in the know and/or just doubt what you yourself cannot see, does not mean it did not and does not happen.

Give me a Break.

First of all you don't know me so don't think you know absolutely anything about how many shooters I know and how many 700s I've been around. I shoot w/ a alot of folks at our local range and at private areas as well and most of the fellas I shoot w/ have a pile of 700s, we shoot w/ gun builders, smiths, hobbiest, and the like so I can assure you I know a good many 700 owners and shooters and I'll tell ya again all of this bs about bolt handles and extractors never gets talked about and I never heard it until hearing it on the net. Do I think it has happened to 1 in a million 700 owners? Yes, I don't doubt some of you have seen these failures.

The model 700 is the king in it's class on the majority of all ranges. It's a fact that they are very popular and will continue to be very popular in their class for many years. If anyone doesn't believe that, they need to get out more.

Does that mean they are the best? No, but in their class they are right at the top of the heap and their shear numbers back it up.

Any rifle made in that price range has it's on cons. If you truley want a rifle that's near perfect, you'll have to go custom and fork out some big $.

Noone here is saying they are the best by any means but, for the price, they can't be beat.

Matter of fact the cheapest 700s I own are 3 that I spent less than $400.00 on just for hunting rifles. All three of those rifles are sub MOA shooters and two of them will shoot 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups w/ handloads. I've never shot another rifle that would print groups that well and only cost less than 400. Even the Savages I've worked w/ weren't as accurate. In their price range a 700 is hard to beat.

Reloader

The funny thing to me about 700 debates online is it's always a very small minute group of shooters that don't like em'.



Ya'll have a good one

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
The funny thing to me about 700 debates online is it's always a very small minute group of shooters that don't like em'.



Ya'll have a good one

Reloader

Amen!

The people that like their Remingtons are out shooting and smart enough to stay away from this cesspool of a thread.

ZM

I am sure Gunsmiths bread and butter rebarelling guns are on 700's, you Reloader yourself said you NEVER heard of Rem problems until you read it on the net, so you implied it was BS. It may not happen often, but ONCE is too much for me to rely on one. That is my choice to never trust a Rem. again, and to buy other brands.

Do many shoot accurate, sure, and there have been many that do not, I have owned and shot both.

As I said, I am happy you yourself have had zero problems with your Rem's. Don't challenge my integrity as to MY experience just because you never seen it, experienced it, or heard of it. I never beat my bolt with a mallet, why did you have to do that to yours?

I guess you come to AR to read 100% BS since that is what your take is on the info posted on the board. I am happy AR provides entertainment. Personally I come here to share experience so others can benefit if they choose to do so.

As I have said, I own/shoot Rems, but I have owned and sold many times over what I have kept, that had problems. I really don't care if someone else buys only Rem, but as George Bush said lately, " we see things a little differently"

Hmmmm, you never did reply to my comment about you being a Remington Rep. I know there was one in the area in the past, perhaps you have a vested stake in the company. Either way, I think you rather argue about how good YOUR rem's are and how YOU never seen or heard except on the net, that Rems have problems.
I can believe that is true, but also know for a fact what I have said. As said before, we agree to disagree.

If one's take on my comments is 'buyer beware' fine, if they want to put their head in the sand and choose not to believe, that is fine also. My misfortune will prevent ME in the future from repeating what has happened by choosing a product that has a better design for reliability.

Future posts by me on this subject are pointless.