Lately I've been thinking it would be nice to have a rifle that is capable of shooting accurately enough to confidently take 300 yard shots under the right conditions. I picked 300 yards arbitrarily, so the distance could be 250-350 yards. It's not necessarily the distance, but the accuracy I'm interested in. Of course the cartridge of choice must be flat shooting and have enough energy left to be effective.

I'm sure many of you have far more experience with specific rifles and set-ups than I have. To some of you this may not be a bid deal, but odd thing is that I can't remember ever shooting a rifle for accuracy at the range at 300 yards. Mostly all this time I have been careful to limit my shots to 150 yards or so, or less, so I haven't worried about accuracy beyond 150 yards. I figure it's about time, and why not set a goal of having a rifle capable of great accuracy at 300 or so yards, load development, etc. Something I haven't done before. Should be fun and a challange worth doing.

So, I would like to read your experience and opinions on rifles likely to achieve my goal, whether custom or factory. Bear in mind, this is a hunting rifle that I'm asking about, so it has to be a carry rifle. A little heavy may be ok, if it will make a difference, but not too heavy.

KB

What are you hunting?

three or four trips to the range with about any rifle will do that. A good shooter will stay under 3" at that 300yd range. I try and zero at the longest range I would shoot, and just shoot a target at 100/200/250 (3 shots is enough) to know where it hits. Heck, the CZ 450 Dakota I took to Africa in December was zeroed at 200.

Rich
Buff Killer

Remington Model 700 in .338 RUM will easily meet your requirements. I know, I've got one and it is supremely accurate. It will also knock the snot out of pretty much anything at 300 yds. and beyond. My 2 cents.

Any decent 300WM will do the same.
Peter.

SJ,
I figured that might be a question. Although I have a natural and cautions tendency to limit my range, if I had a rifle that has demonstrated the capability at the range and on other practice outings, about the only exclusion that I can think of is brown bear. I just wouldn't feel right about that, mostly because if I shoot one, I don't even want to follow it up after it runs off, so that's a different scenerio.

So, the answer is deer anywhere, especially in Texas off a stand, and hogs of course. I saw two really nice big black bear boars yesterday at about 300 yards, so that situation is included. Moose maybe, but the cartridge would probably have to be at least a 300. I can't think of others, but you get the idea.
KB

If I was shooting deer and hogs at 300 yards a 308 would do the job no problem.

If I was shooting bigger game I would pick a 300 Win Mag.

Of all the hunting bolt rifles I have shot, overall, the Blaser R 93's have been the most accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
three or four trips to the range with about any rifle will do that. A good shooter will stay under 3" at that 300yd range. I try and zero at the longest range I would shoot, and just shoot a target at 100/200/250 (3 shots is enough) to know where it hits. Heck, the CZ 450 Dakota I took to Africa in December was zeroed at 200.

Rich
Buff Killer

Maybe it is just that simple, and I'm making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

I've just been thinking about it lately, and realized that I've been lazy about it or mayby just in a hurry. For much of the time I haven't had access to a formal range that I could shoot out to 300 yards, so I've been shooting wherever I could find a safe place, such as an old rock pits and such. Lots of times i set the target out at about 100 yards or so, throw the sand bags on the hood of the truck, and if I can get 1 1/2 inch group, I go hunting.

Recently I moved, took a new job, and had to put much of my stuff that I didn't get rid of outright in storage. So the batch of rifles I have available right now aren't measuring up to 300 yard shots. Maybe it's just me.

Over the years, as I remember, I have never seen or shot a three inch group at 300 yards. As I said, I haven't really tried for it myself, but I haven't had any hunting buddies that showed me it could be done. That doesn't mean I haven't heard about it, but it means I have never seen it personally.

Not only do I want to witness it, but I want to do it myself.

Since moving here, heck I've had difficulty getting 3 inch groups at 100 yards, so that's gotta improve before I can move out to 300.

Goals are good, eh?

KB

If you have a flat shooting cartridge and a GOOD zero you should have no problems with most any cartridge to 300. You don't say what you want to shoot with it, but if it is deer and below I would say the less recoil the better so you can get more practice in. A 260 or 7mm-08 would be plenty at 300 or even 500 yards and not kick overly hard.

I own 270s, 30.06, 7mm Rem Mag, 6.5x284, 308, 300 RUM. All are capable with my handloads of achieving your criterion. Pick one.

I'd opt for the 7mm if I had to single one out.

No s--t, I should have asked this question long time ago. Obviously I haven't set my standards high enough. You guys make it seem so simple.

One thing for sure, it will weed out inaccurate rifles, and focus my skill or lack of it.

I was at the range Saturday, testing my most likely prospect, a Ruger 77 MkII in 338, and the darn thing is shooting all over the place, which is part of what got me thinking in this direction.

What I need right now is to shoot a rifle that demonstrates the kind of accuracy needed, to assure me it's not just me. I have a freshly assembled 8x57 that shows some promise, but only slightly tested. I'm gonna work with that I think.

KB

I have two of them in the safe at the moment, but have had about a dozen over the past 5 years.

300 yard accuracy isn't that hard to find.

Deer and smaller, 6.5mm

Unless your barrel sucks, the rifle is always more accurate than the shooter-human error. Most people, not neccesarily you, can't shoot a 338 WM real well AT 100 YARDS. As others have stated, 6.5,270,280, etc. will all do the job. What ever you shoot best at 100 yards will be best at 300 yards. Zero about 2" high at 100, be about 7" low at 300.

quote:

the answer is deer anywhere, especially in Texas off a stand, and hogs of course. I saw two really nice big black bear boars yesterday at about 300 yards, so that situation is included. Moose maybe

.338 Federal will handle all of those. Recoil is less than .30 cal magnums, good ballistics to 400 yards, accurate.

Right now you can buy a Sako 85 for under $800; that is a $1400 rifle on sale.

www.eurooptic.com, call Alex
http://www.eurooptic.com/Sako/...dor=SA00&parent=SA00

I appreciate the replys.

It's encouraging to read that the 308 win and 338 federal are good choices for deer and hogs at that range. Those two are certainly easy to work with and flexable cartridges.

Actually a friend is making a 308 for me, on a L57 Sako action he sold me, with a medium heavy Shilen barrel that I already had, but that probably won't be finished until next year.

I would really like to try a 338 Federal, but I have so many rifles now, either in storage, partially finished or needing testing that I can't take on another caliber right now. Besides, I think of the 338 fed as a short 8x57 but not with the solid long time acceptance world wide. I've gotten on the 8x57 wagon lately, and want to work with that cartridge a while if I'm going to work with anything in the non-magnum medium bore. If the 308 and 338 Fed will do the job at 300, surely the 8x57 is in the same class.

I have one, mayby two rifles that I'm relatively sure will shoot MOA at 300 yards, but both are in storage right now. I'll be able to get them in July hopefully when I go fishing there. One of them is a 338 WM on a Winchester action. The barrel is 12" twist Lilja, and I have been shooting 225 gr bullets in it. I believe it is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot, but still I have never shot it for accuracy beyond about 150 yards. I did shoot a deer with it at something over 250 yards, but that's not the same as testing for actual accuracy.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I can't recall a factory rifle that I have ever owned, except my little CZ 527 in 7.62x39, that would shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. I hear again and again of guys with factory rifles that shoot that good. I think it's pitiful that hasn't been my experience. However, that may change since I have some CZ 550s that are yet to be tested, if I could just get them here. Now that I think about it, I once tested a friend's CZ in 9.3x62 that was factory fresh and darn accurate.

Frankly, I was expecting the responses to specify some kind of custom rifle rather than apparantly good accuracy from factory rifles.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by SIR MAUSER:
Unless your barrel sucks, the rifle is always more accurate than the shooter-human error. Most people, not neccesarily you, can't shoot a 338 WM real well AT 100 YARDS. As others have stated, 6.5,270,280, etc. will all do the job. What ever you shoot best at 100 yards will be best at 300 yards. Zero about 2" high at 100, be about 7" low at 300.

I thoroughly agree. So, my first goal is to reduce my human error, with a better rifle rest. So, I have a secondary question. I would think a really good steady rest and good technique are needed to shoot a 3" group at three hundred yards, even if the rifle is capable of it. So what rest do you use? I have mostly used sand bags and a little leather v shaped sand bag sometimes. lately I have been thinking of getting a shooters rest brand unit.

Tomorrow I'm gonna confirm what the 8x57 told me last time I shot it, then take it after one of the blackies.

KB

I would say first you need a scope that you can read different distences. Blistic Plex is what its called. Burris scopes have this Leopold has it also. Leopold wants an arm and leg for theirs
Burris is within reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Any decent 300WM will do the same.
Peter.

Ditto - same for .270 and .280

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I can't recall a factory rifle that I have ever owned, except my little CZ 527 in 7.62x39, that would shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. I hear again and again of guys with factory rifles that shoot that good. I think it's pitiful that hasn't been my experience. However, that may change since I have some CZ 550s that are yet to be tested, if I could just get them here. Now that I think about it, I once tested a friend's CZ in 9.3x62 that was factory fresh and darn accurate.

Frankly, I was expecting the responses to specify some kind of custom rifle rather than apparantly good accuracy from factory rifles.

KB[/QUOTE]

I just got a new Model 70, made by FN in South Carolina. It is a lot better made than what was built in Connectitutt. It shot MOA right out of the box with the new trigger. You may want to try that before getting a custom.

I'm into 7mm Rifles, and in addition to the 7mm Rem Mag Doc mentions, I would add the 284 Winchester.

Don

I would be a fan of the 300 Win with your criteria. Yes, some of the non-magnum will also fit the bill but I like the extra power. For my long distance rig I have a 338-378 Wby. It has no problem with accuracy at those distances and beyond. It has more then enough energy at much further distances then my shooting capabilities as well. Whichever you choose, practice regularly at that distance while in field positions so you become comfortable with your capabilities at longer ranges.

Ken....

Once you settle on a rifle, practice substantially farther than you think you will shoot. It is a confidence builder when you KNOW you can make the shot another 100 yds out, even if your hunting ethics require a pass on game that far.

just because a rifle won't groop so well at 100 yds., doesn't necessarilly mean it won't group out further. the loaded cartridge/ bullet design has allot to do with it. some loads/bullets just aren't done stabilizing at 100 yds. and group better far out. some of the ideas about boattails vrs. flatbase bullets are developed around this thought.
i have a load for my 6.5x270 ackley that doesn't look much more than average( good enough for hunting, but not really up to the gun's capabilities) at 100. but shoots into about 1-1/2- 2 inches at 200 yds all the time. i was about to discard the load, thinking it was, "just another ok load, but there's got to be a better one" then i shot it at 200 just to use up the few i loaded and get some longer range practice and was pleasently suprised.
i don't have the load info close at hand right now, but IIRC, it used a hornady 129 gr. SPBT bullet at right around 2800 fps... no slouch, but not very hot for that cartridge.
for 300 yds., just about modern "deer cartridge" should do well enough to have decent confidence in, given good shooting discipline.

I am of a little different school of thought on this subject.

I am a big fan if M.O.C. accuracy, Minute Of Critter.

Just from my personal hunting experiences, I have seen too many folks worry about shooting groups, and not concern themselves with being able to put the first shot fired, exactly where they want it every time.

Too many folks, to me, seem to blank out the fact that a small group made on a paper target, regardless the range, is not the same as making a critter dead with the first shot under actual field conditions.

As for choice of caliber, depending on the game being hunted at the time, the confidence of the shooter in regards to placing the first shot correctly, and ranges of 300 yards or less, with proper bullets, I feel that anything from the 243-257 Roberts on the small end of the scale up thru a 458 Win Mag will cover it.

just by going and shooting rocks at unknown but eyeball ranged distances will let you know how far you can shoot well.
pick out ones about 8" or so across,sit down and shoot them.
with even a 44 mag or a 30-30 you might be surprised how far away you can hit a 24" sized rock.
bench technique and hunting are different situations and you need to practice how you are going to shoot.
if you want to hit a deer at 300 set a milk jug at that distance and shoot at it in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Once you settle on a rifle, practice substantially farther than you think you will shoot. It is a confidence builder when you KNOW you can make the shot another 100 yds out, even if your hunting ethics require a pass on game that far.

That's what I'm talking about too.

Lamar, we had a conversation on this forum about shooting rocks. Since then I've restrained myself. I remember doing that in Colorado where there are plenty of cross canyon rocks, and it was fun.

I like the milk jug idea. That's about M.O.C. I like to see them explode when filled with water. Hitting them regularly at 300 yds, using field techniques would work for me.

But my first step is finding out what the rifle will do on the bench, using as steady of rest as I can get to reduce my human error. Then use field conditions practice with a rifle I know will shoot.

KB

First of all the 8 X 57 , if accurate , will get the job done if you do your part. If a lighter rifle with less recoil would be of some advantage the 6.5X55 using a 140 grain bullet at 2800 fps.might be a good choice if you are a handloader. roger

I'm with ya Roger. It's another beautiful day here, no wind and plenty of sunshine. After work today, I heading to the range with my newly assembled 8x57 Mark X. There's light to shoot untill almost 10:00 pm, maybe later.

Trouble is there's no 8x57 ammo in town, except some 170 gr Rem stuff, and I have only a partial box of the Hornady 195 gr factory loads. I'll have to get the assurance I need with just a few shots, to have enough left over to go hunting.

KB

IMO, just about any cartridge 25-06 & up is a good 300yd deer getter. You need a rifle that can be 1moa & then practice. Your field shooting will limit you more than a decent rifle & cartridge. For AK, because of the likelyhood you could run into a good size bear, a 30-06 would be my min. Although I might stretch to a .280/7rm w/ 160gr premium bullets.

Kabluewy, I will take a different tack here. I will recommend a sako 85 in a hunter class or the syn/stainless version in 30-06.

This round is so readily available, and offers plenty flat shooting and power at 300 yards, and beyond. Top it with your choice of optics, but I like the Conquest line from Zeiss as a base, and something at least 9X at that distance. 12x is my personal choice. Top it with good rings, I really like Talley's, the Optiloks from Sako are good, but expensive and heavy, and lastly, I like the Leupold QD bases/rings.

You will have a super wide range of bullets in 30 cal to choose from, I really like the 165/168 gr TSX or TTSX, as well as the Nosler Accubond. This bullet weight gives you great flatness of trajectory, and is plenty medicine up to and including elk or moose IMO.

This rig will be a fluke if it won't shoot good quality factory ammo, or of course your handloads into MOA or better. It will be a really versatile rig.

I truly agree with those who say practice at your max range, I really developed my confidence in shooting longer ranges a few years back by shooting at paper plates at widely spaced yardages, starting at mid 200 yards, and on up to 480ish yards. A fellow who posts/posted here as Lawndart, and another guy by the handle of DJPaintless, put me onto this type of shooting to develop my skills. I used field positions on our 600 yeard range (with special permission) and shot prone, sitting, off of bi-pods and my pack, as well as standing. It is very hard to hold MOC past about 200 for me standing offhand--I am not skilled with using a sling properly for this style, I need to learn, but really, I never shoot this way. I will sit down, prop on a tree or something first. I was able to hit the plates at all the various yardages, and didn't even laser them until the third or fourth pass of shooting at them. I did NOT have a ballistic type reticle scope on my rig, but have since done it with one, and it is very much easier to hit more accurately with this type of reticle for me.

good luck to you, I am sure you can achieve fine accuracy out to 300 yards and beyond if you stay committed to it!

While any good "deer rifle" will fit your bill, if you plan on doing a fair amount of sniping at longer ranges, a cartridge with reliable power and point blank range near where you want to shoot suggests a 300 or 338RUM. A Rem 700 with syn stock in stainless is available off the shelf. Mate up a 3.5-10X Leupold and for about $1200 you are good to go. Just hold dead on at anything out to 300 yards and it will be dead

Balcktailer,
I have an unreasonable mindset against the RUM and the Rem 700. I admit that I'm not practical enough to make the leap. I don't want to argue, so that's why I'm not being specific as to why. It's just me.

I do appreciate your opinions and reply.

KB

270WSM with 140gr Accubonds or TTSX's, 300WM with 180gr AB's or TTSX's get my vote.

My Sako m75ss 300WM with reloads of 180gr AB's is zeroed @ 225 metres (3.5" high @ 100metres) .

My 270WSM sure has impressed me at various distances on elk, moose, bears, deer, coyotes.

Kabluey, you mentioned having an accurate .338 wm in storage. I would suggest that you put a good scope on it, maybe a 4 1/2-14 luepy or a 3 1/2-10 and tweak your handloads by load testing. This should get the job done and the .338 wm is a fabulous cartridge for large game. It hits game real hard. If legal i would gladly hunt the world with it, except for elephant. Warren Page wrote of having real good luck on cape buffalo with his. On animals weighing between 500 and 800 lbs. I've been very impressed with mine. I can't tell any difference between it and a .375 H&H on game. Recoil bothered me a little until i had it mag-na ported and had a good sorbathane recoil pad installed, now it's a pussy cat. I normally shoot a 225 Nosler partition and a max. load of RL-19, but would go to a heavier bonded-core bullet for potentially dangerous game. Mine is an older Ruger #77 and shoots slightly over 1 moa. About 3 1/2 or 4" at 300 yards out of my hands rested on sand bags. This has been sufficient accuracy for game out to 400 yards. After all, it's not my prairie dog rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I appreciate the replys.

It's encouraging to read that the 308 win and 338 federal are good choices for deer and hogs at that range. Those two are certainly easy to work with and flexable cartridges.

Actually a friend is making a 308 for me, on a L57 Sako action he sold me, with a medium heavy Shilen barrel that I already had, but that probably won't be finished until next year.

I would really like to try a 338 Federal, but I have so many rifles now, either in storage, partially finished or needing testing that I can't take on another caliber right now. Besides, I think of the 338 fed as a short 8x57 but not with the solid long time acceptance world wide. I've gotten on the 8x57 wagon lately, and want to work with that cartridge a while if I'm going to work with anything in the non-magnum medium bore. If the 308 and 338 Fed will do the job at 300, surely the 8x57 is in the same class.

I have one, mayby two rifles that I'm relatively sure will shoot MOA at 300 yards, but both are in storage right now. I'll be able to get them in July hopefully when I go fishing there. One of them is a 338 WM on a Winchester action. The barrel is 12" twist Lilja, and I have been shooting 225 gr bullets in it. I believe it is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot, but still I have never shot it for accuracy beyond about 150 yards. I did shoot a deer with it at something over 250 yards, but that's not the same as testing for actual accuracy.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I can't recall a factory rifle that I have ever owned, except my little CZ 527 in 7.62x39, that would shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. I hear again and again of guys with factory rifles that shoot that good. I think it's pitiful that hasn't been my experience. However, that may change since I have some CZ 550s that are yet to be tested, if I could just get them here. Now that I think about it, I once tested a friend's CZ in 9.3x62 that was factory fresh and darn accurate.

Frankly, I was expecting the responses to specify some kind of custom rifle rather than apparantly good accuracy from factory rifles.

KB

I don't know what kind of budget you are on, but if it is limited and you go out and buy a Savage medium heavy barrel in .308 or .300 WM and it won't shoot SUBSTANTIALLY better than MOA you've got a lemon. Taken with the accutrigger it most likely is BY FAR the cheapest way to get a really accurate rifle for less than $1000 including scope and bipod (if you use one) costs. Friend of mine has one in .300WM that after firing first shot for scope adjustment put next 3 factory rounds in 3/16 inch, which was probably a bit of a fluke but it will still shoot 3/8s as long as you let barrel cool a bit.

As posted, practice, practice, practice. I like the idea (if your locale permits) of wondering around shooting at rocks ast unknown distances)
As far as factory verus custom is concerned, if you've got a Rem 700 that will not shoot into 1.5" or less (probably much less) at 100yds, you've got a real dog. That's right out of the box with no tweaking beyond the obligatory trigger job.
That extrapolates to 4.5" at 300yds.

First off, 300 yds is not what I would call long range. If all you are shooting is deer and hogs, unless they wear kevlar in Texas, lots of what I am reading is WAY over kill! I like a 7mm mag,of any maker and name, cause it shoots flat and bucks the wind. Use a good bullet and many, many less potent rounds will work fine. If you can hit a paper plate, you will kill any thing you say you are hunting. The biggest factor you will face at 300 yds is the wind. That is why I like the 7mm mags. They take me more out of the equation. Hornady has a great ballistics section on their web sight that will tell you how much the wind moves what ever you intend to shoot.

Most of the suggestions listed above are very good. There are a lot of decent quality rifles and calibers that will do MOA at 300 and put down 150 lb game. However, my suspicion is that you already have at least one rifle that will do this.
You could very easily determine the capability of any of your rifles/load combos by renting a mechanical rest and a little range time (if there is one close by).
If I was you, I would spend a few hundred dollars on a 2-3 day course from a quality instructor and a few hundred rounds of ammo. Take a vacation day or two if you have to. It will be worth it. You may find that your accuracy problems hinge on one or two easily corrected aspects of your technique that an instructor could help you spot.
Sometimes the answer is not more rifles (don't tell my wife that ), the answer is in learning to get more from the rifles you have.
Chet

One of the easiest and cheapest things you can do to make your current weapons more accurate is to lighten the trigger pull to about 2 3/4 lbs. You will be amazed at the difference it makes. Based on my experience, 300 yards is no big deal. After that it can get more interesting mostly due to wind.