What is the largest animal you have taken personally with a 35 Whelen? For me it's elk.

Share your stories please.

I think with 250 or 310 gr. bullets its reliable for Alaskan Brown Bear and in Africa all but hippo, Rhino and elephant, but even then It would do in most cases..Its walking on the heels of a 9.3x62 or as one guy said the 9.3x62 is a 35 Whelen on steroids.

Scrub cattle with the 280 Swift A-Frame.

2200# American bison, 250 Speer, one shot-one kill.

Elk with .225 grain Barnes "X" Flat Base bullets.

Everything I ever shot with a 35 whelen caved in before it was out of sight, even in the thick stuff, the longest run was a Moose and he went maybe 20 yards. I like the 225 gr. Noslers, but will be trying one of Gerards GS customs bullets with it next year..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I think with 250 or 310 gr. bullets its reliable for Alaskan Brown Bear and in Africa all but hippo, Rhino and elephant, but even then It would do in most cases..Its walking on the heels of a 9.3x62 or as one guy said the 9.3x62 is a 35 Whelen on steroids.

I used 300 Barnes until they stopped making them and then went to the 280 Swift in my 358 Norma with a 20" barrel. The Swifts all ended up looking the same from 25yds to a bill bull I killed at 300yds. The Norma got traded off and I had JES rebore my 30Gibbs to 35 Gibbs and will continue with the 280 Swifts. Possible down to 225 NP if the caribou ever show-up here again.

All you have to do is look at the popularity of the 350 Rigby in Africa. They used it as an all around cartridge, even elephant in the open. The 35 whelen is a ballistic twin.

quote:

. . . or as one guy said the 9.3x62 is a 35 Whelen on steroids.

It's just a metric Whelen.

My Whelen build will hopefully be done by the end of the month. I will focus on the 200 TTSX and 250 partition for starters.

Eland. Several. Without incident.
250 grain Northfork and others.

Large kudu in Zimbabwe. Took 4 of us to drag it to the Land Cruiser. 250 grain Nosler Partition (2586 fps) at about 100 yards. penetration about 50" diagonally from point of right hip to center of left lung. The kudu was stretched out at the start of a spring when I shot. Kudu went less than 10 yards and piled up. No drama, no tracking.

250 gr Speer hot core for everything I hunted from 1978 to 1993.

Killed anything from coyotes, to a 8 1/2 foot Brownie.

The Brownie, was right shoulder thru body and thru the left hip, and we recovered the bullet under the skin in far side of hip.

J Wisner

One fair sized elk in Colorado.....225 grain partitions did the trick and even at 301 yards the elk dropped in it's tracks.

135 lb. Whitetail doe, at 12 yards.

My father has taken moose and bison with his.

He has also taken them with a 30-06, and taken moose with a 243.

225 Accubond has worked well on moose for me.

I wouldnt go higher than giraffe.

so, the 35 is a .358 bullet, and .366 is the smallest LEGAL african dangerous game bore .. and a 9,3x62 is the smallest case capacity that makes the energy cut ...

there is VERY little different in a .358x63 and a .366x62 .. less difference, in fact, than a 243 vs 257 .. but slightly more than a .277 vs .284 ..

what does all that mean? with good bullets, it could be an elephant gun!!

I generally shoot .358 win in 35 caliber, i prefer 225 GK at about 2500 .. i think i've shot "every" 35 cal bullet for .358, and some that wherent intended for rifle speeds.. largest *I* have shot with it is an over 300# boar ... how much over? who knows, it bottomed out the scale

I will quote Pierre van der Walt from African Dangerous Game Cartridges. "The 9.3x62 compared to the 35 Whelen is like dammit is to cuss'en" In other words the 9.3x62 should be compared to a 375 H&H not a 35 Whelen.

I shoot both and have to agree with that quote, at least in my case, in that I can get 2400 FPS with a 300 gr. Swift in my 26" 9.3x62 if I push it and near that with a 320 gr. Woodleigh. I normally shoot my 375 H&H at 2500 FPS with a 300 gr. bullet. Pretty close comparison under my circumstances.

I shoot my Whelen with a 280 gr. bullet at 2250 to a hot load of 2300 FPS,

I really am a fan of both calibers and they are about all I can handle these days as old man time takes it toll on felt recoil, but either would suit me for hunting any animal on this planet.

I have never owned a 358 Norma or even shot one, but I have often wondered if its not the ultimate all around caliber? Some years ago I had a 35 Brown Whelen and it was a hog stomper, but a pain to maintain..The 358 Norma would be a better choice and the full equal.

Thank you everyone, so far, for your thoughts, contributions, and hunting stories. Please keep them coming. I am enjoying and learning from it all.

I own quite a few 35 Whelens, but also a 358STA, 9.3x62s, 338-06, 338WMs, 375 H&Hs and 375 Rugers. I really love them all. (That 375 Ruger, round and rifle in the African Hawkeye, has a lot going for it.)

For some inexplicable reason, I seem to be drawn to 35 calibers the most. I cannot logically defend it as the best of the bunch, but rather a liking instead.

Currently, I am hunting the most with my Ruger SS/syn Hawkeye 35 Whelen. With Nosler Custom 250 gr. NP, it groups 1" at 100yds. It groups the same with my Ruger MK II. Both are 1:16 twist barrels. With the same load in my Dakota Classic Deluxe, it groups 1/2" at 100 yds. It has a 1:12 twist. Because of the twist in my Dakota, I have loads using 280 gr. SAFs & 275 gr. Barnes solids, and also 310 Woodleigh softs & solids. What a great safari rifle this one will make (I have yet to take it to Africa).

Ray, first let me say how much I appreciate your responses. Secondly, I too have never owned or shot a 358 Norma, but I have had the same thoughts as you have.

Taylor wrote that he thought he'd actually prefer the 350 G&H over his beloved 375 H&H.

Leslie Simpson wrote around 1920 that his idea of what Americans needed for Africa was a 35 caliber bullet of 275 grs. going 2500fps. As I understand from my reading, this suggestion from him to Col. Whelen was what got the 35 Whelen ball rolling. It didn't quite make Simpson's mark, but Howe corrected that when he partnered with Griffin, and he invented the 350 G&H.

I've written to Ward at Dakota about making me a 350 G&H on a Safari blank that I have. He said they have made one for a gentleman recently that was shooting a 250 gr. bullet at 2900fps. I suspect this cartridge could run a 280gr. SAF about the speed Simpson was suggesting. But I suspect the 358 Norma could as well.

I am presently debating with myself on which cartridge to go with. The Norma would be possible to get factory ammo (250gr.) and have 280s custom loaded. The 350 G&H ammo would be custom loaded all the way of course, but it has a very appealing history attached to it, and would go a little bit faster than the Norma.

Ray, if you had to choose between these two, which would you pick?

Sorry for the aside conversation ladies and gents. Please keep the hunting stories coming with your 35 Whelens!!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I will quote Pierre van der Walt from African Dangerous Game Cartridges. "The 9.3x62 compared to the 35 Whelen is like dammit is to cuss'en" In other words the 9.3x62 should be compared to a 375 H&H not a 35 Whelen.
.

ah, Ray -- x62 -- NOT x64 -- the whelen is a WHOOPING 2 grains smaller than the 9,3x62 -- that is, at the same pressure, 18 .. EIGHTEEN feet per second difference .. SAAMI and CIP loading have them are roughly IDENTICAL vels.. 250gr 9,3x62 is listed at 2559 ft/s the whelen a 250gr at 2523 .. 36 FPS - 56.5K psi for the 9,3.


I present that "long throated and long barreled" exceptions aside, anyone else attempting these loads is WAY above pressure...

since you can make BOTH from the same case, or make one from the other, and there's 2% greater bearing surface, idiomatic loads resulting in FAR higher vels aren't, well, lawyer proof.

just saying, that loaded to IDENTICAL pressures, it's pretty durn hard to tell the difference...

I think Pierre was discuss'in the x64

The biggest is this young moose bull.
But also truckloads of red deer.
Very efficent cartridge, mine is loaded with the 250 grs Woodleigh PP.

My rifle is a Ruger M77 MK II with 22" Shilen barrel, 1-14 twist.
A rifle for hard and rough hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


just saying, that loaded to IDENTICAL pressures, it's pretty durn hard to tell the difference...

+1

It's nice to know that these are around if I get tired of carrying a flat-shooting 416.

Arild,

Nice photo of your moose. Thanks for posting!

Nice rifle too! As I mentioned, I am hunting the most (in the US) with my Ruger 35 Whelen as well. Great cartridge.

Jeffeoso,
NOpe the quote was out of the book. His reference was a comparison of the 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62, and he further stated Americans have been underloading the 9.3x62 forever..I agree with him, having both and a chronograph has made a believer out of me, all the hoopla stats aside..Been playing with both for a long time..The 9.3x62 can safely be loaded with the right powders to within 75 to a 100 FPS of the 9.3x62..My standard hunt about anything with is the 286 Woodleigh PP, at 2554 FPS, in order to make it legal in Zimbabwe..Africans have been doing that for ages. I can't get that with a Whelen, meaning no disgrace for the Whelen, its a great round and I own a Jack Haugh that's simply awesome. Just my take.

Surefire,
To address your post question to me on my choice of a 35 caliber would take me a month of sleepless nights and agonizing days but here goes for March 13, 2015 at least..

I tend to think a 338 win. necked up to 35 caliber would suit me on todays political atmosphere with a lack of component availability that seems to be permanent perhaps..I believe .338 brass will always be around, many other rounds are on discontinued lists at the manufacturers I fear..

Aside from that, I would take a look at the 35 Whelen Ackley Imp, its a winner, and can be used with 30-06 cases, 270 cases, and 280 cases for starters and you can pick up 5 to 8% velocity over the Whelen, and that's substantial with those heavy bullets..

I still have an ache for a 358 Norma, but I have always had a .338 Win, so who knows where I would go..Also the Mauser action is designed around such rounds as the 30-06 (actually 7x57 and 8x57 but the 06 happened to work as well) so line up an rail work is necessary and never quite as slick IMO, but I'm picky.

You also have the awesome Brown Whelen and its the real deal and will duplicate the 358 Norma in a 30-06 case, as would a 35 Gibbs I suppose. but they are a pain to make cases for, but once made they last forever if you anneal and take care of them..

Bottom line is I am as confused as you! If you ask the experts you will find out they are also confused or prejudice to the hilt and because they own a pet caliber it must be the best!!

Thank you Ray for the response.

Yes, with the many medium bore calibers out there, it's easy for me to be confused as well. So, I just buy one of each and go shooting. I eventually find something I like, and for whatever reason, I seem to fancy the 35s.

I understand your comment on necking up 338 brass to 35 for longevity of available brass. I suppose the same could be said for the 350 G&H, as it is just 375 H&H brass necked down. But as I don't reload, I guess both points are moot for me.

It sounds like your love of your 338WM has you wondering sometimes 'why a 35'? I've given that much thought myself. Leslie Simpson's idea of a 275 gr.@ 2500fps 35 cal. is pretty close to a 275 gr. SAF launched from a 338WM. My wife took her Zebra in Zambia last summer with that exact 338WM load. She shot it in the chest with a full exit out the backside. It's hard to argue with such results in my mind.

Of course, for gun loonies, the word "need" is not in our vocabulary. In fact, I find it an objectionable term. So, I will continue to pursue my "358 caliber dreams".

Thanks for all of your ideas and opinions Ray.

Bluster doesn't change facts. The friggin specs declare the loads are essentially the same. Hot loading one a declaring the other to be lesser is disingenuous at best.

Get over it ray. You can't shout me down When it is a factual discussion. If it is just "your idiomatic hearsay" against facts, that 2% DIFFERENCE in case can only be hotter loaded with more pressure

Bluster doesn't work on facts

RAy Atkinson,
Pondoro Taylor had great praise for the .350 Rigby as an African cartridge,
the Kynoch ammunition he used has clocked considerably slower that todays 35Whelens.
I don't know what it is with so many of todays hunters who are velocity obsessed,
the greats successfully killed a pile more game at considerably slower velocities, than many people on AR put together.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bluster doesn't change facts. The friggin specs declare the loads are essentially the same. Hot loading one a declaring the other to be lesser is disingenuous at best.

Get over it ray. You can't shout me down When it is a factual discussion. If it is just "your idiomatic hearsay" against facts, that 2% DIFFERENCE in case can only be hotter loaded with more pressure

Bluster doesn't work on facts[/QUOTE)

That's 7% difference, Jeff, not 2% -- 72grs H2o vs 77 grs H20 for the 9.3 X 62 using true 9.3 X 62 brass, not .35 or .30-06 brass necked to .366.

Those are facts.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

quote:

That's 7% difference, Jeff, not 2% -- 72grs H2o vs 77 grs H20 for the 9.3 X 62 using true 9.3 X 62 brass, not .35 or .30-06 brass necked to .366.

Those are facts.

I'm with Jeffeoso on this one.

Ammoguide lists a 1.9grain difference between the 35WHelen and the 9.3x62.

The 3% increase in diameter, of course, is usually good for a 3% increase in muzzle energy, other things being equal.

ammo guide, with SAAMI verified cases, is 1.9 gr .. bertram vs nato MIGHT result is 7 grains ..

however, i used ammoguide spec vs ammoguide spec.. not largest i could find vs smallest, from dissimilar sources...

its 2gr ...

here's the rule of wild cating .. you get .25*delta Volume in velocity -- if you gain 10% in case capacity, you get 2.5% increase in velocity, at the same pressure...

the pressure part being the driver - even PO Ackley states as much, as his best improvements, 7x57 ai or 30-30 ai are running at higher pressure than stock...


if you take the bearing surface AND the increased capacity, you get 4.45% total gain, of which you get 1.1% increase in vel ...
you get 28 fps, at the same pressure .. SAAMI to SAAMI, not idiomatic loads to underloaded factory...

ya'll are free not to LIKE the facts, but trying to bluster me down, with wild extremes possible, takes the extremes to norm ...

just doesn't work.. and bertram brass at high pressure is a pretty bad idea

Jeffeoso,
Shout you down, what the hell are you talking about, your delusional or can't read..

All I said essentially is I have never been able to make up my mind which one I would pick as I was asked the question in a post by surfire and my reply was to him..

I have a 35 Whelen, and a 9.3x62 and I perfectly content with both..I said I always had an ache for a 358 Norma, and suggested a 35 Whelen IMP was an option..

Now I could have said that the same bullets at lesser velocity would work, however I consider that a given, but I also know that several hundred FPS will flatten trajectory and that may or may not be important to some, it's not to me as I don't shoot much past 300 yards. But like it or not the 338 Win is MY favorite caliber..

Now, those who were so astounded where did I chink anyones armour?.

3 AK moose 2 caribou many black bear a few whitetail mostly with 225 gr swift also 200 gr barnes tsx I have bigger ones and smaller ones but the 35AI is the one that goes out of the cabinet when its hunting time. I always wanted a 358 norma but figured the 35AI was almost the same velocity plus i can get 5 rounds in my mod 70 thats a lot of fire power.Kevin

Its odd that I've never had a 35 Whelan. Very odd indeed. I'de really like one but its hard to justify when my 9.3×64 does everything and more. Thing I really miss and the reason I may get one is redily available brass.

The MOST accurate big rifle I've ever owned was a 358STA.

Killed Eland, Zebra, Wildebeast, Kudu and Nyala with it on my first safari in 1995.

Black bear

Well..I took a Waterbuck, Kudu, and Zebra with a 358 Win...which is less than a Whelen.

regarding whelen's and 9,3x62s, see rule number two...

Does anybody think a cape buffalo can tell the difference between .008 of an inch and 36 grains of mass punched thru both it's lungs?

I would be content to hunt buffalo with a 35 Whelen with 310 gr. Woodleighs at their 2233 FPS with my Whelen..Bluster? I think not, just opinion.

I would however prefer my 9.3x62 with 320 gr. Woodleighs at 2392 FPS. or a 286 gr. bullet at 2525 FPS in my 9.3x62, these are all real world max loads in my guns. I am not loading one hot and the other mild for comparison as suggested. that is the real comparison between the two. I see the difference in the 9.3x62 and the 35 Whelen as comparablel as the 308 Win. and the 30-06, the 06 has the edge as does the 9.3x62. If someone thinks otherwise then so be it, I have no problem with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I would be content to hunt buffalo with a 35 Whelen with 310 gr. Woodleighs at their 2233 FPS with my Whelen..Bluster? I think not, just opinion.

I would however prefer my 9.3x62 with 320 gr. Woodleighs at 2392 FPS. or a 286 gr. bullet at 2525 FPS in my 9.3x62, these are all real world max loads in my guns. I am not loading one hot and the other mild for comparison as suggested. that is the real comparison between the two. I see the difference in the 9.3x62 and the 35 Whelen as comparablel as the 308 Win. and the 30-06, the 06 has the edge as does the 9.3x62. If someone thinks otherwise then so be it, I have no problem with that.

That's a realy good analogy - and one that I would agree with!

Well, someone needs to disagree, too.

I would say that the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are actually more like
the 270Win and 280Rem.

the capacities of each pair are about the same and not even a full calibre (.01") separates the diameters of the pairs.
.277 to .284 is .007" while .358 to .366 is .008.
Two pairs of Twin sisters, in my book.