Plain an simple ; I've very carefully loaded a variety of loads in various case brands ,

all prepped equally even turned necks .



Group consistency ( other than awful groups ) are alluding me . I'm kissing a couple of holes but spreads

are 1.5-3.25" at 200 meters an aggregate of # 3 ,5 round groups for a total of # 15 shots for score .

Decided to run #3 fouling shots instead of my usual # 1 , as I may have made a Huge mistake of cleaning

the Bores to well . Any suggestion of improvement would be appreciated !.


Such as loads used in your Rifles because the known accurate loads in mine are now GONE !.

I even had an Distinguished Expert shoot some of them and all things being equal , he wasn't impressed

with any of those loads either . Talk about frustration !, my case comparison which was the intended

purpose of this whole exercise ; Is NOW FOR NAUGHT !!!.

I've been recently tuning a .280 Remington.....and it actually shoots fairly well.

I free floated the barrel and glass bedded the action.....I consider this fairly important.... and if you haven't done it then I'd recommend it! At a minimum I'd glass bed the recoil lug.

I like to start a new gun on ballistic tips or Hornady SSTs.....because I've found those bullets to be among the most accurate one can buy. Hunt with something else if you like but convince yourself that the gun is clean by shooting the good stuff.....Target bullets will work too!

Until you have yourself convinced that the gun is "worthy", I'd confine myself to 100 yards or less.....5-shot groups are great IMO.

I was getting good groups with the Hornady 139 BTSP interlock but just wasn't pleased as I'd like to be so bought some Barnes 120 grain TSX.

My first five shot group was covered with a nickel.....100 yards.....Bambi beware!!!!!!

What vapodog said and a plus one for the bullets he mentioned.
My old favorite bullet, with the canelure, turned out not to be so favorite anymore.

What vapo said +2. Free float & glass bed, etc.

For a long time now, I haven't had to resort to the advice I'm about to give you, and at least one time I tried it, I basically concluded that the rifle wasn't worthy.

But that's the point. An unproven rifle, especially one that's being a challange, has to be sorted out, before it's ready to go hunting.

So, I have been known to just get rid of a rifle if it doesn't come together quickly, but when I have a hunch that I can find a remedy, I have used Sierra match bullets, or some other brand of match bullet, that I figure is well suited for the twist rate. For example, 7mm with 9" twist, I would try something near 160gr match bullet. 9.5" twist, maybe 150 gr, or thereabouts. and so forth.

Another thing, I go with the powder that I figure is most likely to succeed. I'm not going to recommend a powder, since I haven't messed with the 7 mag much, so you'll have to figure that out. Most likely slow powder - your choice - not necessarily top velocity - but as near full case without compression as can be found.

Once I prove to myself that it will shoot, then using the same powder, not necessarily same charge, same primer, same brass maybe neck sized - all trimed to proper length, just switch bullets of approximately same weight as the match bullet.

My theory is that if it won't shoot with Sierras or similar match bullets, then waste no more time with it.

My only other suggestion is that perhaps you are not holding your lips right when you squeeze the trigger. Ya gotta pucker up like you are going to kiss the target, just as the rifle fires, to get the best accuracy. Concentrate - you can do it, nobody is watching. If anyone notices and says anything, just tell them that it's something you learned from a guy aka kabluewy, on the internet. Surely they will understand.

KB

You don't say what rifle or what bullets you are using. To eliminate the bullet I would suggest trying the Berger 168 gr. VLD target bullet (they make a hunting bullet just like it). See my post on medium Bore rifles under Blaser rifles or PM me for my load. This is not magic, just an attempt to use a recognized target bullet in perhaps a different weight that you may not have tried.
Peter.

What rifle, Powder, Bullets are you shooting?? My old Savage 110 (pre accu-trigger) 7mmRM shoots every weight bullet loaded w/ IMR 4831 very well. 120..160 grain. Have you checked your scope?

My load for my Rem 700 7mm Mag is 60grs of IMR4350 and a 160gr NP. The barrel has NOT been free floated.
It shoots sub MOA consistantly. After a two year "rest" in the gun safe, I took it out, ran a dry patch thru the bore and, using reloads that were 10 years old, I shot 3 5 shot groups of .3/4", 7/8" and a 11/8". Velocity was @ 2950.

OK ; My Mauser 3000L has been tricked already for nearly 25 years , Tikka is new and I didn't expect it to jump

out and send bullets into a single holes ( not until I develop the load it prefers ) .

Mauser has always shot S MOA ; Leupold glass VX111 3.5 X 10 and all is well with security issues .

Tikka wears Nikon gold monarch 5.5 X 20 . This Tikka I didn't polish the Bore as I've done with all the rest

of my Rifles I've bought . I just fired cleaned fired cleaned on and on ; My major concern is my Mauser

as it's never failed to put # 5 S MOA with nearly any load . H870 , IMR4831 . Everything is tight and DBL

checked . Vapodog ; I did run at 100 and 200 meters and results are similar group sizes didn't close

by more than .125" .187" Which is what has me temporarily discouraged .

So I'm breaking out the Crony after the rain passes in a few days and will load down some test rounds

for verification of characteristics , as well as holding zero .

Any loads and advice appreciated and NOTED !. Thank You ...

Personally I think MAYBE the 7 m/m Mag is a little fussier than many other chamberings when it comes to which bullets it likes.

My 7x57s and .280 clones like a fair number of different bullets interchangeably. But I have owned (and still own) a number of 7 m/m Mags which seem to like bullets with longer (higher number), more pointy, ogives. A couple for instance will only shoot the Hornady 162 grain Match bullets into much less than an inch, reliably. Everything else of newer manufacture bullets I have tried through them is in the up to 1.5+ MOA class of capability.

I don't know whether the powders are changing (read: "less consistent") or what, but bullets I used to be able to count on years ago just don't deliver like I am used to. Maybe it is the bullets themselves which are changed, whether in core alloy, jacket material, whatever. Maybe not.

Another thing, and this is NOT intended as a smart-ass comment, is eyesight. As we "fully mature" our eyesight quality tends to vary considerably more during any given day than it did when we were "young turks". If there is a "shooter's eyes" specialist in your area (like there is in Phoenix, AZ for instance), then it might be a benefit to pay him a visit.

I don't know how to do an on-line search for the info, but if you can look back through the 1990s issues of Precision Shooting, there were several very well done articles describing why and how that vision trouble occurs, and what can be done about it. What you have described sounds a lot like situations I have read about where it turned out to be "older eyes" that were the glitch.

For your sake, I hope it is just bad bullets or varying quality powders...

Best wishes,

AC

I still would check the scope. Shoulder the rifle and move your head up and down slightly(nod). If the retucule moves w/ you, you have an issue.

Have you tried new bases, rings & a different scope?

Tikka are great rifles and very accurate out of the box. Among the best factory rifles in my view.

There has got to be something else wrong. My Tikka 695 in 300WM is extremely accurate.
Peter.

quote:

Another thing, and this is NOT intended as a smart-ass comment, is eyesight. As we "fully mature" our eyesight quality tends to vary considerably more during any given day than it did when we were "young turks". If there is a "shooter's eyes" specialist in your area (like there is in Phoenix, AZ for instance), then it might be a benefit to pay him a visit.

I hear that AC !, Last month I went in for a " Full Eye Exam " the most through I've ever had .

Nothing has changed as of the last 6 years I've needed reading glasses . I use a special pair of

transitional lens for Iron sights , as I can't really focus the rear aperture and front post well .

Target NO PROBLEM ! ,as I can still see 20/10 20/20 respectively with my shooting eye at distance .

While the rains continues I'm checking everything . I use quality optics bases and rings .

Never made sense to me to use one and not the others .

I'm giving in too AC's thought of this Rifle not liking these bullets and what a shame .

I've got nearly 6K left !!!.Long story I acquired them for nearly nothing .I believe there Old Sierra's

Match King BT 153 grain ,full jacket lead core base exposed ?.

Every bullet is 153 grain + or - a tenth of a grain .


Thankfully I only have 90 of them loaded .

I'll use them for fouling and Bore break in . So much for the " Best Case " in 7 mm test !!!.

Peter ; I have a few other Tikka's and they shoot Excellently as when I finish my testing I'll post targets

for confirmation . I got into a habit of Polishing the Bore's of my New Rifle acquisition's before firing

them . This particular one I didn't . I don't know if it makes any real difference in this case but I

KNOW for a FACT it has in other Rifles ; They foul less and clean far easier and stay on targets much

better!.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
For example, 7mm with 9" twist, I would try something near 160gr match bullet. 9.5" twist, maybe 150 gr, or thereabouts. and so forth.

Once I prove to myself that it will shoot, then using the same powder, not necessarily same charge, same primer, same brass maybe neck sized - all trimed to proper length, just switch bullets of approximately same weight as the match bullet.

KB

Heck! Just develop the load with a GOOD BULLET! Why go to switching? What I mean is that the Sierra BTHPMK at 160 grains is plenty tough enough for the 7mm Rem and, as you know, Sierras shoot!

I just developed with that bullet in my 7 RUM. It shoots well and I have confidence that it will do the job on game!

With all the really good hunting bullets out there, it always surprises me that someone says they have to resort to match bullets to hunt with.
Exactly how much accuracy are you giving away by using a proper bullet??

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
With all the really good hunting bullets out there, it always surprises me that someone says they have to resort to match bullets to hunt with.
Exactly how much accuracy are you giving away by using a proper bullet??

I hope you don't think I said that. If that's what you think I said, then read my post again. I don't recommend hunting with bullets designed for target shooting.

My recommendation was to try some match bullets and see how they shot on targets. In my case, I usually have some match bullets on the shelf, and a finiky rifle is just an excuse to load up some for the range. Might as well since they will just sit there in inventory otherwise, and that way I don't burn up good hunting bullets on targets. By switching to hunting bullets after testing for accuracy with match bullets, my confidence is up, and the adjustment to the scope is very little.

It's certainly not necessary, and I haven't done it for a long time, but it's part of the fun, and I get to shoot some match bullets for a change. Sierras are rather cheap to shoot anyway.

KB

take your bullet of choice, under 170gr .. set it .030 off the lands, unless its a barnes, then set it .065 off, and use a medium load of rel 22, federal 215m primers, and wait 5 mins between shots ..

anything that is finicky gets SOLD .. if it will only shoot one load, unless a double, it goes down the road .. with the secret receipe

you fail to mention what caliber you are shooting and what rifle you shoot. those 2 combos do make a differance.
if it is a bolt action, try imr4831 or 4350. pick 1 or 2 bulletts and start your oal just shy of the rifelling. make 3 loads then back it down .02 and load 3 more.
i did this and used a begining, medium and max load untill i got the best group. then i went longer and shorter along with adjusting the powder a half grain in both directions.

yes its alot of work but it paid off with 3 over lapping shots

I've never worked with anything 7mm but....
When I begin load development, I usually start with the "accurate" load of the bullet weight I want that's listed in the Sierra manual. If Sierra doesn't have the weight I want, then it's usually to the Hornady book. If I get the accuracy results I want, I'll then go to the hunting bullet of my choice and go from there.
BTW, my Kimber .270 WSM has given me fits over the years trying to get it to consistantly group 150 gr. bullets and it's cost a lot to try & tune it. That @#&XX*! rifle just plain will NOT group a 150 gr. bullet consistantly regardless of what I do. I've finally gone to 130's and it looks as if it will perform just fine. It could be that your rifle just does not like the weight you've selected.
Bear in Fairbanks

Edited to add:
I really don't think that turning the necks will improve your performance that much. You're not shooting bench rest.
B.I.F.

Some rifles just won't shoot. Some will shoot with several bullets. Some shoot just a few bullets. Some shoot just one bullet. NO one can tell you where your rifle fits into that picture.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
Some rifles just won't shoot. Some will shoot with several bullets. Some shoot just a few bullets. Some shoot just one bullet. NO one can tell you where your rifle fits into that picture.

This is so true. The 7rm can be finicky. The two I have owned were not though. I would certainly give a match bullet a try w/ a couple of powders to see if it will shoot. Try a box of premium factory for a benchmark. I would want at least 1 1/2moa w/ at least one load. Are you full length sizing or neck? Off the lands or just kissing? Light 140gr bullets or heavier 160gr? I have found best luck w/ 150-175gr bullets & slower powders like IMR7828.

I have been shooting a Tikka M-65 since 78.
Mine is also a 7mm Rem mag.
I found pretty quick that it luved IMR 4350 powder.
The other thing I found with it is Fed mag primers shrunk my groups considerably.
I have shot 150 and 160 gr Partitions thru it mostly and it drives tacks as they say sub 1" is not a problem.
The only load I ever put thru it that it really didn't like were Remmy 150 CLKT...man that was 3"! LOL
Two of my local buddies also have them one swears my H 1000 powder. The other one really likes IMR 7828.
Never bothered to try either as the IMR 4350 is fantastic for me.
You could try the mag primer tho if you haven't already I tried it in my 243 also and it worked the trick there too.
I just switched all my loads to the Fed mag primer after that..its all I use for large rifle now.

Thanks too ALL for the replies ; I consulted an AR reloading expert and have determined where I Made two

mistakes , one by assumption the other by not knowing any better !. Never to old to be ignorant !.

Waiting for a tool and then will resume shooting the 7 Rem mags in approximately two weeks .

Once I make those adjustments I'll try the same load of IMR4831 and those 153 grain BT's .

I don't believe powder or bullet are the problem , however I will change those also for verification .

The reason I want those 153 grain BT's to work is for paper punching / Not hunting rounds !.I have 6K of

them . I have more than accurate enough hunting loads for my Mauser . Once I establish a favorable diet for

the Tikka using those paper punchers , I'll then use my Hunting bullets to finalize that part of the recipe .

FYI ; My old loads of H 870 drive Game kings , Nosler 160 grain consistently under MOA . All good things

diminish over time even my H 870 !!!!!!!!!.

I have played w/ my Savage 7mmRem Mag for years. My main hunting bullets are 140 and 160gr Barnes flat base, Hornady 162gr interlock. The 129gr flavors shoot well also.

Doc, I only load for two 7RMs. but both of them absolutely love AA 8700 (which I believe is the same as the H870 you talk about...) behind a Nosler 162 SB, lit with a Federal 215. I push the bullet up close (off the lands about .010") and things just get right... Both a tang safety Ruger 77 and my BDL give me one hole groups at 100 with this load.

If this one won't shoot with either a Nosler Solid Base or a Hornady Interlock, there is something major amiss with your rifle, in my estimation.

Don't give up!

My 7mm RM loves RL22 for light bullets and Retumbo for the heavier stuff w/CCI mag primers. In the 150 class bullets I'd use RL22.

I traded a bunch of safe queens for a Dakota 76 in good wood. 7mm Remmy. Damned thing wouldm't shoot anything, and at the time, they guaranteed MOA from any factory load.

I had a $400.00 used A Bolt Medallion I bought at a gun show that shot half inch with 160 A Frames. We all do stupid things from time to time, I guess, but I just had to have a Dakota.

They rebarreled it and I tried about a dozen loads to no avail. 1 1/2" was the best I could do.
So I had some Federal factory 160 grain TSX's. Tried them. Three round, one hole group at 100 yds. Repeated it twice. One ragged hole.
So I said the hell with reloads and just buy that round and never looked back. It'll kill anything from white tail to eland.

Took me two years to sort that sucker out.

Try some hornady bullets, maybe the 154 round nose loaded mid range. If it won't shoot those tight, then you will likely have some problems getting anything else to do as well. That weight and style bullet seem to very well.

Like vapodog above, I am going to suggest that it's not the load, it is the bedding of the barrel. I am not familiar with the Tikka but would respectfully suggest you check for contact between the barrel and stock with a dollar bill. If there is contact, remove the barrel from the stock and relieve the stock to free float it.

While bedding the action and recoil lug is never a bad idea, I would first put a shim of some type between the barrel and stock at the very front to provide some upward pressure on the barrel.

I learned the shim lesson after tearing my hair out for months trying to get a Winchester Model 70 in 7mm WSM to shoot. Worked like a charm!

Good luck.

The rifle, though not a tack driver is still plenty accurate for shooting pretty far out there. That said I might rebarrel if it does not tighten it's groups by round 200.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc224/375:
FYI ; My old loads of H 870 drive Game kings , Nosler 160 grain consistently under MOA . All good things

diminish over time even my H 870 !!!!!!!!!.

Call Thunderbird Cartridge Co. in Arizona. They have T-870 (surplus H-870) !