Ok, I know factory ammo ballistics aren't always accurate and velocities from reloading manuals vary ALOT. So I'm wondering what velocities people are actually getting out of a standard .270 with 130 and 140 gr bullets.

3100 with 130gr.
3000 with 140gr.
This is about all you can do +/- (._.)

quote:

This is about all you can do +/- (._.)

Might be all I need

The original factory ballistics called for 3140 fps with a 130 grain bullet (from a 26" barrel). This is about right for a load with an optimum powder, generating pressures that will not wear out the brass in just a shot or two.

My .270 happens to have a "fast" barrel and produces an honest 3200 fps with a 130 grain bullet and about a grain and a half less powder than most use (24.5" barrel), with fully sustainable pressures. This is unusual, of course, but with the proper powder most 24 inch barrels will do something better than 3100 fps.

At equal pressures, the difference in the 80 year-old .270 Winchester and the slightly more capacious .270 WSM is only about 50-75 fps. When you step up to the longer bullets like a 150 grain Partition, the limitation on overall length for the WSM makes the two cartridges virtually ballistically identical.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

At equal pressures, the difference in the 80 year-old .270 Winchester and the slightly more capacious .270 WSM is only about 50-75 fps. When you step up to the longer bullets like a 150 grain Partition, the limitation on overall length for the WSM makes the two cartridges virtually ballistically identical.

BTW what barrel are you shooting?
Which is why I asked. I'm having a rifle built, and chances are I won't have the $$ for another one anytime soon. I'm a fan of the 270 WSM, but I've already begun to wear a barrel out and can't stand the thought of that on a $2000 rifle, so I'm considering a regular .270. If most people are able to get 3000 fps out of a 140 gr bullet from astandard .270, I'll probably go with that cause there ain't anything I'll ever hunt I couldn't kill with that bullet.

I don't have a chronograph but my .270 likes everything I shoot in 130 grain at max loads. So by the book I should be running at 3100 fps maybe a little faster. IMR and H4831 are the best powders in my rifle. I'm not showing any signs of pressure at max loads in my rifle either, but it is shooting good enough I don't need to push it any harder.

I'm getting ready to try some 160 grain Nosler Partitions. I've got them loaded up I just haven't made the range trip yet. I'll let you know how they do, should be a great elk round if they shoot.

BTW my .270 is a old beat up Parker Hale 1200.

I have 2, 270 Winchesters, a 26" Remington Sendero, and a Model 70 winchester with a 24" barrel. I use 130 Nosler Ballistic tips in both, the 26" gun gives 3275fps, and the 24" gun gives 3050 to 3100 fps. I have had them leave the Sendero @ over 3400fps, in the heat here in Arizona. Never have had a pressure problem. I shoot IMR4831 in the Sendero, and IMR 4350 in The Model 70. Thats enough velocity to deal with any critter. As the various elk, deer, coyotes, and other critters I have shot over the years, will attest.

Jerry

My barrel is an old factory Bofors Steel Sako, 24.4" long. I can't say that a similar barrel would perform the same, but I have always been delighted at the efficiency and velocity from this barrel (not to mention outstanding accuracy).

Another advantage of the standard .270 is magazine capacity. Some WSM magazines will only hold two cartridges -- three at the most. My Sako holds five cartridges, giving me about double the number of shots available. You don't typically have need of that many shots in a single magazine, but when you do you'll be glad to have them.

The typical WSM with its shorter action is only about 3/4" shorter and 3-4 oz lighter than a full length action. Doesn't seem worth the trade-offs to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

The typical WSM with its shorter action is only about 3/4" shorter and 3-4 oz lighter than a full length action. Doesn't seem worth the trade-offs to me.

The problem with my current WSM is that its too light. The thing weighs 7 lbs fully loaded. It kicks harder than it should and is hard to shoot off hand. I'm not looking to shave any weight off my next rifle - I'm thinking 9-10 lbs fully loaded.

Plus a WSM doesn't beat the regular old 270 much in velocity if at all in some rifles...

a 270/08 makes sense.. a 279 WsM doesn't in my book...

The WSM case is only makes sense with bullet weights of 30 cal or better to me...

a 375, 416 or 458 WSM are pretty neat cartridges.. a local gunsmith was making rifles chambered in those that I thought had a place.. lightweight and short heavy contoured barrels with 1.5 x 5 Leupolds mounted on them...

My M77 gets just under published velocities for factory ammo. It has a 22" barrel, and usually lands around:

3050-3060fps - 130gr
2920-2950fps - 140gr
2830-2865fps - 150gr

Those are plenty fast and flat to take care of anything for which you'd need a 270 in the first place.

I get 2923 f.p.s. with 58 grs. of rl-22 and a 150 gr. bullet in my old 700 remington.

quote:

Originally posted by 270 bdl:
I get 2923 f.p.s. with 58 grs. of rl-22 and a 150 gr. bullet in my old 700 remington.

That would be a very stiff load in my .270, but it just goes to illustrate that every rifle/barrel is different. I haven't tried the combination of RL-22 and a 150, but I would guess that my rifle would top out around 56 grains and yield a few more fps. A friend's 22" M70 needed three more grains of powder for a few less fps.

As always, "your mileage may vary". I have a great .308 that is always 50-75 fps short of what most other guns yield. However, it is accurate and a very nice gun, so I'm happy to move a little slower. If I want to go faster, I pick up a .30-06 or .300 Win.

I run about 3100 with Nosler 130 pt in one .270 and in the other I run 160 partitions around 2850. I use H4831 in both.

I don't own a 270 WSM so cann't comment on pressure or loading but I do own a custom 270 24" Hart barrel with 53.2gr/IMR4350 140gr bullets 3022fps using 150gr bullet and 52gr/H-4350 2927fps and 55gr/H4831sc 150gr bullet 3077fps. I've got a factory 23yr old 270 BAR with a 22" barrel and it get 2885fps and 2847fps with reloads using 130gr bullets and that was a middle of the road load we used. Well good luck

My .270 WSM must be real fast compared to the WSM velocities listed by some here. Mine gets 3450 fps with a 130 grain bullet, 3300 with a 140 grain bullet and 3250 with a 150 grain bullet. These are cronographed over an Oehler 35-P and are averages not spike speeds. Now if you guys want to think that the WSM is only 50 to 75 fps faster than the old .270, which I have great respect for and always will, go out and reload for the WSM and just see what this baby will do. I really could not give a rats rear end if the mag want hold 5 cartridges, it is that first one that I am interested in. How many will the TC contenders hold. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
My .270 WSM must be real fast compared to the WSM velocities listed by some here. Mine gets 3450 fps with a 130 grain bullet, 3300 with a 140 grain bullet and 3250 with a 150 grain bullet. These are cronographed over an Oehler 35-P and are averages not spike speeds. Now if you guys want to think that the WSM is only 50 to 75 fps faster than the old .270, which I have great respect for and always will, go out and reload for the WSM and just see what this baby will do. I really could not give a rats rear end if the mag want hold 5 cartridges, it is that first one that I am interested in. How many will the TC contenders hold. Good shooting.

The velocities you quote are substantially faster than the same weight bullets from a 7mm Remington Magnum -- a case that is about 12% larger and a bore that is several one-thousandths larger. In fact, 3300 fps with a 140 grain bullet is pretty typical performance from a 7mm STW. Wow! Those WSM cases really are magic!

I shoot a real nice old FN 270. I get about 3050 with a 130 grain Hornady. I could probably load a little hotter but don't know why I would.
The 270 WSM is an interesting round, But i really don't have a huge interest in aquiering one.
the .270 will kill dear just fine, and if I am going after elk I would prefer a bigger bullet.
I know the 270 kills elk prety well, but I like a big bullet for a big animal.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The velocities you quote are substantially faster than the same weight bullets from a 7mm Remington Magnum -- a case that is about 12% larger and a bore that is several one-thousandths larger. In fact, 3300 fps with a 140 grain bullet is pretty typical performance from a 7mm STW. Wow! Those WSM cases really are magic!

Stonecreek,
Likewise I'm starting to wonder whether bloody good quality brass masks some of the traditional pressure signs. Mate's built an improved 458WSM and the velocities he's getting using Norma brass are real eye-poppers. He tells me that brass is holding up well too ... but without pressure data, who is to know what's going on. As an indication ... 300gr loads where hot at a chronographed 2800+fps and brass life good at high 2600's. From an improved WSM case and 22" barrel, that's pretty astounding.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek: Wow! Those WSM cases really are magic!

LOL!

+1

Would add, I've never, ever seen a case pushed harder by handloaders than the short/fats... seems blokes really did believe the marketing hype that they're the SA equivelant of their larger brothers and therefore make them so, pressure be darned!

Back to the subject at hand, my 22" bbl'd 270's go 3,075 - 3,100 w/ 130's and 2,975 - 3,000 w/ 140's.

H4831sc or RL22 are the powder's of choice. H4350 isn't bad either.

My 270 Win gets 3140 FPS with 140 grain TSX and a case full of H-1000..Before anyone gets high blood pressure my 270 sports a 29 inch Krieger barrel

Stonecreek ----- You are absolutely correct with your numbers. I own and shoot the 7mm Rem and 7mm STW and have for many years, I know exactly what they will do and this .270 WSM is a revelation to me everytime I shoot it. My rifle is a Model 70 Winchester Ultimate Shadow and I love it and plan to use it on Elk next week in Colorado. I have Elk hunted for years with nothing smaller than a .300 Winny and consider my .358 STA ideal Elk medicine, but I just can't resist finding out how this WSM with the 140 grain bullet (the best part is I bought 6 boxes of the old Nosler Combined Tech uncoated Failsafe and got them for a song and they are my best shooters) will do. This year I have a cow tag. My numbers on the WSM are not conjecture after many months of shooting and I would invite you are anyone else to shoot with me to see for yourself. Once again I consider the old .270 Win to be a classic, but this WSM is something to behold. I plan to own another soon and then will compare barrels, etc. Making my mind up about what to build or buy is the hard part. Good shooting.

PHurley5:

I have absolutely no experience with the WSM case. I do have 40+ years of experience with reloading over 40 different metallic cartridges and five gauges of shotgun, and have owned a chronograph for 37 of those years.

There is no way to change the ratios of pressure and velocity to to the size of the combustion chamber. In order to acheive the velocities you are experiencing from your WSM, your pressures have to be far in excess of what conventional brass cases will contain. I have seen no data to indicate that WSM cases are significantly more pressure resistant than belted magnum cases; and it is certain that the primer, which is the weakest link in the pressure containment vessel, is the same with both types of cases.

In short, something doesn't add up about your velocities. I won't speculate about what it might be.

Ahem...
I'm not really interested in the WSM debate. I like my 270 WSM, but I Don't like the the barrel wear I'm getting so soon. The purpose of this thread was to see what people are really getting from their standard 270's so I can decide between that or a .280 or a 280 AI for my custom rifle.

I plan to use the rifle mostly for mulies, whitetail, sheep, goat, speedgoat and occasionally elk. Me and my wife have killed a few cow elk at moderate ranges with my WSM, and the way I figure, if people are getting 3000 fps out of a standard 270 thats close enough to my WSM, close enough to what works for me.

But there's something tantalizing about that AI...

Wayfaring:
I wasn't going to comment on your question since it was regarding 140 gr. bullets. However, since 270 bdl made comments on 150 gr. bullets, I thought I'd add my 2 cents.
I only use 150 gr. Partitions in my pre-64 Mod. 70. The load I use is 57 grs. of Rldr-22 and I get 2930 fps. From my load info, 58 grs. is max. so I'd agree that 270 bdl is pushing it a bit. BTW, with this load, I consistantly get under 1" groups and my velocities were chronoed. My impression is most guys use either a 130 or 140 gr. bullet in a .270 but I've used the 150 here in Ak. for many years and it's a great sheep/caribou round. I think you'd like the 150 on your elk. Hope this helps some.
Good luck. Bear in Fairbanks

Wayfaring Stranger ----- Sorry for the WSM tangent, but I had to offer my information to those who have not shot it and reloaded for it. Until you actually shoot a chambering there is no way to assume what it will do from just manual reading. Good luck with your project. Stonecreek ----- Shoot the WSM for a few months and we will compare notes. My load is 68 grains of RL-25 for the 140 grain bullet with a Federal 210M primer. I shoot two .358 STA's and with identical loads one is 50-150 fps faster than the other, go figure. I owned two .340 Wby's and they were very close. I get within 150 fps of my .338 Lapua with a .340 Wby with 12 less grains of powder using the same bullet, once again seems out of kelter doesn't it, but true. I certainly don't have all the answers, but I know the .270 WSM is something special. Good shooting.

If you need more than 2800 fps shooting a 130-150 grain pointed bullet for deer your needs are pretty specialized. Just because you can doesn't mean the deer will be any deader and you barrel will last a lot longer.

rick300 ----- If Deer in the woods is all you want to hunt, my old original 30-30 is perfect. For the bean field variety, the old .270 is fine. If you want to step up to the longer stuff in Africa-Colorado-Alaska-Canada the WSM is exceptional. I love speed from all my rifles (except the 30-30) and don't mind a $250 barrel now and again. Golfers buy new clubs, I don't golf, I shoot to the tune of 3000 plus rounds a year, and love every minute of it. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
If you need more than 2800 fps shooting a 130-150 grain pointed bullet for deer your needs are pretty specialized. Just because you can doesn't mean the deer will be any deader and you barrel will last a lot longer.

Its not the deer I'm worried about, its the elk and moose. I'd be a little more comfortable shooting one with a little more KE than those bullets offer at 2800 fps. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, I don't know. I gues O'Conner killed alot of big game (including grizz) w/ the .270 (at what ranges I don't know).

The Higher V is also desirable for long range shooting and a longer MPBR.

Never have I read more BS than on this posting.Do any of you know anyone whose pet deer rifle isnt the great exception to all rules???? Some of you guys need a new chronograph and a range finder. The 270 win is a great round but holy shit! my poor old 270 must really suck! I get 2840 fps with 56 grains IMR 4350 and a 150 grain Nosler partition. My 21 year old son can put 5 into an inch at 100. I cant. I must live on a different planet than some of you. Funny thing is that at the range I shoot at I am generally helping some poor soul try to do a little better. Im calling BS on some of this stuff!

bwest, when I used the old H-4831 with any 150 gr. bullet it was all I could do to get 2800 f.p.s. I can do a little better with the newer H-4831 sc. Reloader 22 is a whole other ball game. I've gotten good results in an '06 with 180 gr. bullets with it. Also, I have a chronograph too.

Howdy,

LOL or whatever, BUT

74 grs Magpro and 140 TSX in my 270 WSM M70 chrono's over my Pact Pro at 3275.

I also load for numerous pre 64 M70's in 270 Win - the load listed in the new Hornady reloading manual - 62 H4831 for 130 grainers is a real screamer - 3100 fps in a 22 inch FW barrel.

Adios

Sport

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
Wayfaring Stranger ----- Sorry for the WSM tangent, but I had to offer my information to those who have not shot it and reloaded for it. Until you actually shoot a chambering there is no way to assume what it will do from just manual reading. Good luck with your project. Stonecreek ----- Shoot the WSM for a few months and we will compare notes. My load is 68 grains of RL-25 for the 140 grain bullet with a Federal 210M primer. .270 WSM is something special. Good shooting.

I own acouple rifles in the same caliber and for the most part they are pretty close in velocity shooting the same load, in custom barrels it can vary according to type of barrel use.

I'm having a custom 270 WSM build and the last few months I've been looking at alot of reloading data for the 270 WSM. realguns.com has alot for the 270 WSM using a factory win super shadow and they list some most loads pretty close to 3200fps with a 140gr bullet and only two listed at 3210/3200fps none list at 3300fps for a 140gr bullet. I have pulled up Alliant reloading data using 140 gr bullets with R-25 they show 65gr to 69 gr and max velocity at 3179fps and that pretty close to what data I have gotten so far. With 150gr bullets they show some loads at 3100fps and 3000fps seems like their data for the 130gr bullet velocity is spread out from 3100fps to mid 3300fps. I guess I'm the unlucky one in 40 plus years of reloading I've never had a factory rifle give over 200fps more than published data.

Since my wife has claimed my 280AI I figure a 270 WSM would be a good caliber to go along with the 270. I plan on shooting 150gr bullets in the 270 WSM and I should be in the mid 3100fps with a 26" barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
Plus a WSM doesn't beat the regular old 270 much in velocity if at all in some rifles...

It sure as hell does in my experience !!! My Model 700 with 22" barrel would only give me a chronographed 2850 fps with a 140 ballistic tip. My Savage .270 WSM gives me .25 MOA @3150 fps with a 140 Accubond.. At least to me 300 fps is a significant increase in velocity and trajectory.

Great round the .270, don't come any better IMO...A 130 at 2900 to 3200 is great, and I can't tell any difference in 2900 or 3200 and neither can anyone else, in fact 2900 might give you better bullet performance, end of story.

I used two bullets for years in the .270, a 130 gr. pointed corelokt at 3000 FPS and a 160 gr. Nosler at 2900 FPS, never had a failure with either of them..

Howdy,

Published velocity and load data - these data compare very well with my observations.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rif...%20Jul%202004%20.pdf

Adios

Sport

I've chronied a bunch of factory loads and .270 handloads over the years in several different .270s. I own 3 right now. Given 22" barrel, most "standard" 130 gr factory loads have run between 2900 to just over 3000 fps. I have seen some lots of 130 gr factory ammo run 3100 fps in 22" barrel despite advertising 3050 fps in a 24" barrel and others run as low as 2850 fps. I haven't ran near as many 140 gr factory loads, but the 140 Hornady Light Mags have been right at 3100 fps out of 24" barrel. It's no trick to get 2950 with 140s and 3050 fps with 130s given a 22" barrel and handloads. I've never had any problem getting 3000 fps w/140s and 3100 fps w/ 130s in a 24" barrel. I have had slow .270s that did not reach these velocities and fast .270s that I had to back off several grains from book max to stay in this range, but for the most part this is where I like to run mine.

Lou

I load my present 270 to 2850 fps with 150 grain Hornady's or Nosler partitions. If I need more than this I get a bigger gun.