Get him a bolt action 270 Win. with a 24" barrel. Start him on the Remington Manage-Recoil ammo:

Remington Managed-Recoil Ammo

While your at it "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

After nearly 3 decades of use, and a hell of a lot more game shot than most people will ever see, I can say that the 270Win works, Period.

If the extra 100+ fps does it for you, great, just don't try to tell me it makes a whit of difference. If you can shoot MOA groups from "field positions" IN THE FIELD, then lets talk. My bet is that there isn't but a hand full of guys that can do that and they're probably busy in Afganistan right now.

If paying more for ammo and brass increases your pleasure, great. Hell I also shoot a 9.3x62, nothing a 375H&H or even 30-06 won't handle 99.99% of the time.I LIKE it, nothing more.

Weight of rifle? Oh please, if 6 oz. makes that much difference to you you don't need a lighter rifle you need a gym membership. My sheep rifle weighs in at a shade over 9 pounds and I've been dragging it up over 9000 ft for years with no ill effects.

Yes, it's also my antelope and mule deer rifle. My lifetime combined total on these two species is well into triple digits. Why does that matter at all? Well, all I can tell you is that the rifle has never failed me, however; I have on occation, failed the rifle.

270 Win training loads for new shooters: 24.0gr of SR-4759 with a 130gr or 26.0gr. R-7 with a 130gr. I think they're about 2000pfs, recoil is almost nill, accuracy is acceptable and they will actually kill small deer dead as dirt at 100yds or less with soft bullets.

I may have a good one but my semi custom model 70 featherweight in 270wsm with a 25" krieger 1 in 11 twist 4 groove barrel shoots 130 gr barnes tsx's at 3425 fps with 70.5 gr of norma MRP. Easy extraction and excellent brass life. If you hand load and have a barrel 24" or longer the 270wsm wins hands down. I am building another one with a Rock 26" 1 in 11 twist 5R barrel to see what happens.

I can't really see the point of the WSM. An extra few hundred fps...but does the deer know the difference? And in all probability one less round in the magazine. That's for starters!

But there may be a case if your lad is using a heavy bull barrel type rifle - say eleven pounds weight plus the 'scope - firing from a bipod.

If he isn't then recovery after the first shot will be poor and he will lose his sight picture to absolutely be certain what has happened to his deer immediately after he fired.

Also he is only thirteen. He's got young ears! The blast on a full house factory 270 Win is fierce enough with a 22" barrel. I can only image what it would be with a 270 WSM. You will be starting him on the route to a hearing aid at sixty!

I would halve the range he is shooting at to 200 yards and start him with Remington Lite 270. It's a good load - for kids or grown ups period.

Over the years there is one great truth that I have come to conclude and that is the .270 WCF is too good to be true...I can't imagine a better light caliber hunting rifle unless it would be the 30-06 and that would be a tie...

The ballistic advantages of the WSM's are mostly imaginary. The .270 Win. is the best deer cartridge ever plus it feeds better, ammunition cost less and is easier to find.

The kid is now fifteen and a half, they have probably already figured out what gun to get

quote:

900 SS Said
The kid is now fifteen and a half, they have probably already figured out what gun to get

Hee hee hee. After 2 1/2 years is the .270 WSM any better?

Gentlemen ----- I have six grandsons and a great grandson. I hope each and everyone is a shooter and hunter. I never owned or shot a .270 Winchester rifle although I always had a great respect for the round and had many buddies who shot it successfully at Deer and Elk. When the .270 WSM came out I simply could not resist and after reading about the fact it had approx. 200 fps on the .270 I purchased a Model 70 Win Ultimate Shadow and mounted a Ziess 4.5 X 14 Conquest on it. After many rounds and reloading I can attest that it is a fine round indeed and exceeded that 200 fps per bullet with good loading and bullet selection. The old .270 was awesome, but this WSM is double Awesome. A 130 grain bullet at 3400 plus fps, a 140 bullet at 3300 plus and a 150 grain bullet at 3225 fps and all with excellent accuracy. My son and two of my grandsons that are hunting now are fighting to use it for Deer but they have a tough fight on their hands and have come in second so far. who is the culpret that is hoarding the rifle, I have to admit it is me, old grandad. I have come to the conclusion that at least one more .270 WSM rifle is the only answer to the problem and I am on the market. I gave the grandsons the option of the old .270 Win or the WSM or anything else (they also have .243 WSSM and 25 WSSM and .257 Wby to shoot) and it was not even close, the .270 WSM wins hands down. This is our .270 WSM story for what it is worth. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I can't really see the point of the WSM. An extra few hundred fps...but does the deer know the difference? And in all probability one less round in the magazine. That's for starters!

I have both and like both. Whether an extra 150 or 200 or so fps is "worth" it is a personal decision. (7Mag vs 280, 300Mag vs 30/06), etc.)

But I really don't understand the one-more-round-in-the magazine argument. I killed my first deer in '55, and have hunted every year since. There has never been a time when having more than three rounds available would have made a difference in deer hunting.

Hog hunting, yes! Deer hunting, no.

I would chose the 270 Win for the extra capacity and because I am a purist that never bought of on the WSM, SAUM, etc. Not that they aren't good, they just don't float my boat. The 270 Win shoots plenty flat and delivers it's load with enough authority to take just about anything in NA provided the right bullets are used. Lou

I'm sure phurley5 is as right as me, but I'm with Dr.Lou on this one. Its a purist thing and I dont need the extra speed, I dont need the extra round in the magazine either.
And of course, my first big game gun was a .270 win.

Give me the 270 WSM. All around better cartridge.

The funny thing with this debate is that there is always something a bit flatter with a bit more energy. I think the WSM brought a new rifle to a new generation of hunters. Its slightly better than the old, but with that there is a cost. For a new shooter, 1st rifle its a good choice. Personally, I love the 300WSM, but when it comes to the .270 I dont know. The .270 is long, lean, and sexy (sorry this is a quote and I cannot place the author).

The 270WSM is Short, fat and ah er... short(TM)

Too bad there isn't more shooter who actually own a 270/270WSM that would add their experience with both. I've got a real nice Hart barrel 270 and it's a fine shooter when we moved to Co in the 70's took my first muley with a 270 and I first started shooting one in the 60's.

Last week gunsmith finished rebarreling job on a 270WSM and I accidental took some 270 ammo instead of the 270WSM for barrel break-in for some unknown reason the 270 ammo wouldn't chamber drove back home tried to chamber some 270WSM in 270 same problem. I did get to break-in the barrel and heading back to range today for some testing and it look like the new 270WSM is going to be a nice addition.

dgr416:
Well I'm gonna chime in with my opinion on your question. I have both a .270 Win and a .270 WSM. I freely admit to being biased towards the 27 cal. rifles - guess Jack O'Conner did too good of a job on me as a snot nosed kid.
Anyway, I've only had my WSM about a year & haven't shot anything with it but have used my .270 Win. on sheep and caribou. I would add that in my .27 Cal. rifles, I always use a 150 gr. bullet. My last caribou was taken at an estimated 250-275 yds. with that .270 Win. and I've NEVER had a problem with it to put animals down.
Having said all that, I think I'd recommend a .270 Win over the WSM for the boy. The main reason is the cost of the ammo. I know that you mentioned that you'd reload for him but I think that in reality, that will get kinda "old" after a while. Cheap ammo at around $12 a box is readily available for the .270 Win.
Regarding velocity differences between the 2 cartridges, I haven't as yet, been able to get velocities near the Federal Vital-Shok ammo for the 150 gr. Partition. I noted that Phurley5 mentioned that he has gone to about 3225 fps and I don't doubt his word but as for me, I can only get to about 3100 fps (if memory serves). I can easily load my .270 Win. with a 150 gr. Partition and get 2930 fps. I don't see where a guy needs more.
I bought my WSM for several reasons.
1. wanting a lighter weight sheep/caribou rifle for backpack hunting trips and...
2. To see what all the "hoopla" was about regarding the WSM's.
I think they have their place but for a first time owner/shooter who doesn't reload there are better choices. In a nutshell, just my 2 cents. Bear in Fairbanks

I have a few friends with 270WSM's and myself with the 270win, in the field, ZERO DIFFERENCE

I know I'm coming in late but I'll say my bit. I have a 270 WSM in a Tikka hunter. It's great very accurate however the recoil is high. I have a 300 wm doesn't bother me a bit but this rifle I'm adding a recoil pad. Not for 13 yr olds unless they weigh 200+ pounds.

No, it is not worth the difference.

Go with at least the 7mm WSM if you are going to get a WSM. That will give you the choice to use the 175 gr. bullet.