I am thinking of a new project rifle, something with a heavier bullet than anything I am currently shooting. In medium bores I have a .260, .270, 7x57, .308, and 30-06. I am wanting a rifle with some heavier punch at short to medium range on hogs and whitetails in the brush. I am looking at these two cartridges as the .308 may become the donor rifle for this project.

What say you fellows on the merits of the two, one verses the other?

I would chose the 358 though I have never shot a 338F. With either you are going to have issues with long bullets in short actions. My 358 was great using 200 grain Hornady spire points, Remington 200 grain RNSP's and 250 grain Speer bullets. Another good bullet is the 225 grain Nosler Partition. I never found a box of the 225 grain Sierra bullets but feel they would be good also.

I'd say that you would be fine with either, but I have never seen a 358 Win in action but I have seen a 338 Federal take a Zebra with the 210 TSX bullet and the damage to the Zebra heart was massive to say the least. Impact distance was about 100 yards and hera are the results

Exit in the off shoulder



Damage to the Heart



I'd say that you would be pleased with a 338 Federal and it appears to have decent following

Get a .358 in either a Ruger Hawkeye or Browning blr with a steel reciever. shells are easier to find, and if you reload the .358 gives more options and heavier bullets. I've hunted with a BLR .358 for 30 yrs it is usually bang - flop on anything I shoot up to moose. try TAC powder with a .250 speer for 2370 in the blr.

358 Win, there is no substitute! It's a classic cartridge that simply works like magic. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by hard luck:
shells are easier to find, and if you reload the .358 gives more options and heavier bullets.

Here on the east coast I have been seeing more .338 Federal ammo than .358 Winchester. But the pickings are still slim for both calibers.

There are a lot more .338 bullets available to reloaders than .358. Sierra, Barnes and Hornady probably offer twice the selection in .338 than .358.

Dogface, the so called more extensive bullet selection for the 338F argument is unsubstantiated. Many of those bullets will not work in the 338F as they were not disigned for it's velocities. A lot of them a way too long to seat in the 338F especially in a short action. Many if not most of the 35 caliber bullets will work in the 358, even some of the 250 grain bullets.

I have a 338Fed, and you can load up to 215gr Sierra gamekings or 210gr Swift Scirrocco II's and I'm getting 2600 fps with a 24" Lilja barrel. Last year I had some 185gr TSX's and I believe I was getting 2750 fps but I would have to double check my notes on that one.

I would say the results are spectacular but so far the largest animal I've harvested with it is a doe. Accuracy is excellent as well. If you want heavier bullets then 358 is the way to go or 338-06. In my opinion, for shots under 300 yards it's not necessary to go heavier.

For what it's worth, in our area I have never seen 358 Winchester ammo, but there is a fair supply of 338 Federal if you don't reload. The most popular box to be seen is the 200gr Fusion loads.

If you want to use, 200-210 grs bullets, the Federal is the logic choise. If you want 225-250 grs, go .358.

quote:

What say you fellows on the merits of the two, one verses the other?

quote:

Bent Fossdal
If you want to use, 200-210 grs bullets, the Federal is the logic choise. If you want 225-250 grs, go .358.

I think Bent pretty much nailed it.

Of the two, I'd opt for the .338.....but that's not the point here.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
Dogface, the so called more extensive bullet selection for the 338F argument is unsubstantiated. Many of those bullets will not work in the 338F as they were not disigned for it's velocities.

Do some research you may change your mind. The .338 will handle everything up the 225 gr. bullet just fine. There is a guy in Australia who has been using a 250 gr. bullet and getting decent accuracy and velocity.

The .338 is a very versatile caliber. Much more so than the .358 Winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
If you want to use, 200-210 grs bullets, the Federal is the logic choise. If you want 225-250 grs, go .358.

Also a good point.

.

I just don't see any room between the
30-06 and the 35 Whelen.

If I feel a need to throw more than 180 grains,
then I would go to the Whelen.

But of course both the 338 Fed and 358 Win
are good cartridges. I just think the '06
and the 35 Whelen are great cartridges and
offer more versatility.

just my 2 cents, dxr

.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogface:
\There are a lot more .338 bullets available to reloaders than .358. Sierra, Barnes and Hornady probably offer twice the selection in .338 than .358.

Only if one ignores all the pistol bullets as 358 bullets range from 90 to 300gr.

358 winchester... if you want to shoot 200gr bullets, go ahead... i shoot 225 sierra game kings as my prefered 358 bullet...

the first rifle i built myself (wow, its ugly) is a heavy barreled 358

versitility? you are talking about the 708 at that point...

the 338 is a 50 years later"too late comeback" for marketing...

however, we don't "need" anything other than an 8x57 ..323 vs .338, and it will flat leave the 338 fed in the dirt, loaded to the same pressure

Also if you ignore all the good round nose designs made for the 35 Remington. Even some of the 225 grain designs with points on em will give problems in a short action 338F. I suggest rather than scanning reloading manuals you ought to buy one and start reloading for it. Then check out all the good cast bullet designs available in 35 caliber that the 358 can easily use. Or better yet buy a short action 358 and see for yourself that there are a few available bullets that are too long to easily use there also, Like the 225 Accubond. However no matter how you look at it there are way more bullets available for the 358 suitable for short actions and it's velocity range than what is around for the 338 Federal. Happily there are enough bullets in both diameters to make them useful as deer and elk rounds.

I've just begun with a .358 WCF, after watching my old copilot shooting a .358 BLR for the last 34 years. He has always gotten "bang-flop" performance on deer, with factory ammo too. I can't see going to the .338 Fed when the .358 already works, and the bullet selection for the handloader just seems to be better too.
My two cents worth.
LLS

On paper...the 338 would have the edge with higher BC and SD in similar weight bullets. However like stated, you have a better selection of heavier bullets that are shorter and more blunt that would function in a .358 magazine. 338 Bullets tend to be long, especially in the 225+ range. However, in actual performance I don't think you're going to see very much difference. Similar calibers going similar speeds. Also don't forget, the 338 federal ain't all that new, its been around for over 50 years as the 338-08 wildcat. Its just a new NAME and factory support. With the way bullets are getting better and better each year it seems, you also don't NEED to go with super heavy for caliber bullets anymore. This may have been what pushed Federal to come out with the 338, knowing stuff like the 200-210 grain bullets like the Accubond, TSX and NP are strong enough to make up for being 1 step lighter on weight.

The problem for the the .338 federal is that most of the factory loadings are using bullets for the .338 win mag. which don"t work as well at .338 federal vel. However I see the .338 federal as a fine caliber, I've just used the .358 so much You get a little more pop with it and if you use TAC powder, it really zips.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
On paper...the 338 would have the edge with higher BC and SD in similar weight bullets.

But the lower SD gives the 358 higher velocity at the same preassure.
So were is the edge?
The choise of bullet makes a lot more difference than the gap of .010".

Thats .02. I know, I know but we have to argue somethin.

If you ever get the chance just buy one of these:




Ended my delima over these two cartridges real quick. Couldn't believe the deal I got when I stumbled across this rifle, and purchasing or building a .338 Federal never crossed my mind again.

Too bad Savage doesn't start building the M99 again and chambering it for the 358 Win. I t will definitely bring the outrageous prices back in line with M99s chambered for more common rounds. It's a great rifle!!! The BLR is currently the only choice. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by hard luck:
The problem for the the .338 federal is that most of the factory loadings are using bullets for the .338 win mag. which don"t work as well at .338 federal vel. However I see the .338 federal as a fine caliber, I've just used the .358 so much You get a little more pop with it and if you use TAC powder, it really zips.

Woodleigh may soon release a 338 250gr made for the 338 Fed.

So rumour has it...

I have now used and seen used both 358 win and 338 fed on sambar deer with 200 grn loads i think i would prefer the 338 fed,just ordered some of the new woodleigh,s in 180 grn for the fed cant wait to test them also ordered some225 for the 35 to

quote:

Originally posted by sambar02:
I have now used and seen used both 358 win and 338 fed on sambar deer with 200 grn loads i think i would prefer the 338 fed,just ordered some of the new woodleigh,s in 180 grn for the fed cant wait to test them also ordered some225 for the 35 to

I would tend to agree. Neither is easy to find ammo for, so both are pretty much reloader material.
I have used both, and I think I would go for a 358, simply for the supply of inexpensive projectiles for practice and ferals, and the excellent 225gr Woodleighs for deer.
The Federal is new, and could well take off if it is well supported and the price of factory ammo becomes more reasonable.
Otherwise, it will continue to take a backseat to the 308/30-06. Which is a pity, as it is a good round.
JMHO.

If you don't reload, get into the 338Federal. Only if you reload will you appreciate what the 358Win can do and its versatility. I received a 185gr TSX from a 338Federal recovered from the off side of a scrub bull (wild cattle) and it was very impressive indeed! Almost made me want a 338Federal ... but I vowed long ago to never be without a 358Win!!
Cheers...
Con

Both rounds are good !
But please ! don't ruin a good .308 to build it !
The .308 is in my opinion the most versiatl north american big game cartridge.
I don't know what you would spend on a rebarrel, but its around 500 when I do it.
So get a hawkeye for 600 and have both. !
The blr in .358 can be had at a fair price of around 650.00 I think, and when you consider the range limitations of either cartridge, is almost a cinch to shoot plenty strait.
The .338 federal is quite a good round , but if you don't want to shoot bullets that weight much over 180 grains, stay with the .308 !
To me with bullets in the 150 to 165 , the .308 is good for game up to about 400# to 350 yards , and with 165 and 180s, game up to 850 or so# out to 250 yds.
The bigger bore changes the equation in animal weight upwards , but the range downwards.
But opinions are like ,,,, ...tj3006

To me the views stated here appear very sound, indeed!

Bent made an excellent point about the bullet weights, and I also agree with Thomas.
Why the heck go up from the .308 if you intend not to shoot heavier bullets than 180grs?

Where the .338 and .358 step in is increased bullet weight without eating too much into the powder capacity of the case. Due to their larger diameter also the velocities are very useful.

It's is broadly speaking interesting to compare these two bullet-wise. As has been pointed out, the .338 bullets tend to be made for the high velocities of the magnums. I'd have a bit of a concern with that aspect, myself. Especially when shooting lighter game whose hide/muscle/bone resistance is so small that decent expansion of the bullet would not be certain.
You see, on the same hunt I may shoot Scandinavian elk (up to 1000lbs, and a really large bull even above that), wild boar (up to 350lbs for a big hog), and roe deer (usually less than 80lbs), so I require a versatile bullet. The shooting distances typically tend to be below 50yds, but just one month ago I shot a roe calf @ a measured 200yds.
In these instances a larger bullet diameter is of benefit, as even if the bullet does not necessarily open up very well, it leaves a big hole nevertheless.

Then, again, the .358 bullets seem to have a reputation of not really holding well together if the velocities are upped; this seems to have been the concern of many who shoot the .358 Norma Magnum. But in the .358 Win no problemo.
I quite understand this, as historically the .358 velocities have been moderate. Even the old .350 Rigby Magnum actually operates in the 9,3x62 velocity field, as does the .35 Whelen which is a tad behind the 9,3. So as far as I can see, the bullet development has been done for lowish velocities quite contrary to the .338's development.

I don't take a standpoint as to the betterness of one over the other, as I regard both calibers very good, and especially the .358 very much underrated.
Their good sides are that they fit the short action and can be built in a short, light and handy gun; they have little recoil; lots of bullets to choose from; good case availability as the .308 can be utilized if the correct caliber cases are not immediately available; and good performance on game.

For my money, though, I'd bet on the .338 as it today is a "more official" factory cartridge with ammo both from Federal who is a large manufacturer, and Sako who also makes rifles. Honestly, I don't think it'll be overtaken by the .338-06, as we really have not seen much any factory rifles nor ammo.
As a sidenote I think that Sako's current factory .338F loadings are not sensible: they utilize too light bullets, and are essentially build for speed, thus making the caliber little if any better than the .308. Federal's offering is better in this regard.

I do see why some people would tend to believe that 338 bullets are built for mags, but I tend to disagree especially after my last hunt.

If one is fearful of this, then there is the Sierra Gameking, Hornady SP, and Speer HC which are all cup/core bullets which will work especially well in the 338 Federal.

If you like bonded, there's Accubond, Interbond and my favorite Scirrocco II's.

If the animal can bite back, then I would use a TSX bullet and plant it on the shoulder blade for life insurance (mine).

The Scirrocco is the toughest bullet I'll use and as previously mentioned in an above post, worked absolutely perfect for me on an average size doe.

JTPinTX,

I have used the .358 Win. with superb results on whitetails since 1966. It stops them. I shoot the 180 Speer now and used the 200 gr Silvertip when it was sold as a component.

Over on 24HR Campfire there is a hunter who wants to rebarrel his 338 Fed. to .358 Win as his bullets didn't expand much on deer.

Get the .358 Win. I have four of them!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Savage_99:
JTPinTX,

Over on 24HR Campfire there is a hunter who wants to rebarrel his 338 Fed. to .358 Win as his bullets didn't expand much on deer./QUOTE]

How would he know the .338 bullets are not expanding unless he has bagged his game and had a chance to examine his bullet? If that is the case then the .338 worked fine because the critter is dead.

BTW there are not too many guys able to examine .338 bullets because most folks are experiencing pass throughs.

quote:

However no matter how you look at it there are way more bullets available for the 358 suitable for short actions and it's velocity range than what is around for the 338 Federal.

My sentiments exactly. I have nothing against the 338 Federal, but I do believe the 358 Winchester does a better job covering the same game.

Make the jump from .30cal worthwhile, go .358win.

my lineup would be .260rem,30-06,358win.