Thinking about a new rifle. I have narrowed it down to the 350 Rem Mag or the 35 Whelen. I am leaning towards the 350 because it is a short action. What do you guys think? Also how does the recoil compare between the two?
Thanks

If you're looking for a more compact rifle, then the 350 rem mag would be the winner. Case capacities and hence velocities are about the same for either case.

Recoil will be the same in rifles of equal weight, but the 350 will likely be built as a lighter rifle, hence will have more recoil.

Two other considerations are the 358 win and 358 WSM. Remington is notorious for dropping chamberings that don't sell in huge quantities, so you have to figure 350 rem mag brass will be hard to come by in the future. So if you weigh in that inevitability, you can consider the 358 win and give up 150 or so fps, or go to the larger 358 WSM and gain about 150 fps.

There are no bad 35's, IMHO, so pick which one tickles your fancy. I had to be esoteric and go with a 350 Rigby for my 35, and despite the brass dificulty, it is an outstanding round.

Ballistically they're a wash, dead equal, no difference. The .350 will fit into a shorter action saving you, oh, 6 oz. The .35 Whelen will give you more rounds in the magazine because it doesn't have a cosmetic belt. You can make a Whelen cartridge with one pass through a 30/06. The Rem will require that you cut down mag brass, then anneal and reform. From the sake of practicality, get a Whelen.

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve4102:
Thinking about a new rifle. I have narrowed it down to the 350 Rem Mag or the 35 Whelen. I am leaning towards the 350 because it is a short action. What do you guys think? Also how does the recoil compare between the two?
Thanks

---

Not much difference Steve, I already have a Whelen in the 7600. Now I'm trying to talk myself into a new Model 673 in the 350.

I have a 350 Rem Mag in the Rem Classic. What are the differances between it and the 35 Wheelen? Here is my opinion:

- 350 is just a tad faster with light - middle weight bullets (not enough to make any difference)

- Once you get above 225g bullets the Wheelen may be faster since the bullets are seated deep into the 350 case (again, not enough to make any difference)

- I had no problems getting 350 RM cases even before the 350 was re-released. Will this be a problem someday? Maybe, but not for a long time

- I have had no feeding problems with my 350 but speaking in broad generalities, the long, skinny Whelen case may feed better

- I can only fit two 350 cases in the magazine......I would guess you could get 3 if you worked at it. Whelen probably holds 4.

Basically, it's a wash. Might give a slight edge to the Whelen for a DGR for Alaska. I picked the 350 as I like the short action.

Have often thought the Rem SAUM case would make a nice 33 or 35 cal rifle. Keep the short action and eliminate some of the seating depth issues. I would guess the RSAUM case would feed fine through a 350 Rem Mag action.

Same ballistics for all practical purposes. I'd skip the 350 and get TWO rifles: a SA 358 and a LA Whelen. Belted cases - yawn...

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve4102:
Thinking about a new rifle. I have narrowed it down to the 350 Rem Mag or the 35 Whelen. I am leaning towards the 350 because it is a short action. What do you guys think?
Thanks

---

I use a Rem model seven MS in 350 RM. Great little thumper. 6.5 lbs and all you need inside of 250yds for all large game in NA.
bigbull

Well, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. Ballistically they're about like two peas in a pod. So much for the cliches.
My choice would be the .35 Whelen. I do have somw gripes about decisions that were made by Remington and Ruger to use 1 in 16" twist rates in their barrels. In discussing this with two custom gunsmiths, they both felt that it was too slow, and that the proper twist should have been a 1 in 12" twist, on which I heartily concur.
The .350 Rem. Mag. is, for all practical purposes, loaded balls to the wall by Remington, so there's little chance if increasing power by handloading.
The .35 Whelen, on the other hand, is deliberately downloaded as is the .257 Robt., 7x57, and 30-06 due to older weaker rifles being chambered to the round. I once turned down a really good deal on an 1895 Winchester that had been rebored to .35 Whelen. Can't blame remington for being cautious, but I do feel that the .35 Whelen can be improved by judicious and careful handloading.
My personal choice in bullets for the Whelen is the 250 gr. Speer Hot-core. Friends of mine living in Canada use it regularly for moose and say it will shoot clean through both shoulders of a moose with no problem. It has proven to be more than accurate enough in my three rifles chambered to the Whelen.
The 1 in 16" twist is adequate for bullets up to 250 gr., but IMHO, marginal for heavier bullets, should one choose to use them. My next Whelen will have a 1 in 12" twist rate barrel.
I also find it interesting that when Winchester brought out the .358 Win., they used a 1 in 12" twist. When Ruger made a run of M77's in .358, they used a in 16" twist. I wonder why?
I have Remington 700 Classic and a Ruger 77 chambered to the Whelen. I also have a custom Mauser that has a 1 in 14" twist. It outshoots both the Remington and Ruger with the 250 gr. bullets. I also have two Ruger 77's in .358 Win., plus a Browning BLR and Savage 99, also .358s. The Browning and Savage both will outshoot the Ruger bolt guns. They have the faster 1 in 12" twist rates, while the Rugers are 1 in 16". Seems to me there is some kind of a a message here. The .350 Rem. Mag. uses a 1 in 16" twist if I understand it correctly.
Paul B.

OK, Next question, Who makes the 35 Whelen and or the 350 Rem. Mag besides Remington?

if you want to shoot factory stuff buy the whelen. if you reload it is a toss up. either will do anything. brass goes to the 35. if your building one then the 35 gets the nod as donor material is cheaper.
the whelen will afford you all the magazine room you want for 225's and up. the 350 gets crowded with the bigger bullets but still a 225 nosler in a 350 will drop anything in NA...........
woofer

I believe Ruger did a run of 35 whelens a year or so back.

Other then that, it's pretty much a custom proposition.

Steven - I think you have gotten all the information you probably need from the looks of things (and good advise too). I own both, a .350RemMag and two .35 Whelens. Assuming you are a reloader, or you probably would not be on this forum, I will add my two cents. I think the Whelen is a better designed case for reloading, ie. no belt, longer neck, smaller case diameter (but longer). Brass is more availabe, whether you make your own or buy it, and is more popular which should keep it around longer. Case capacity may favor the .350 with short 225gr and less weight bullets, but when you put 250gr bullets in the case you end up with less to maybe the same capacity as the Whelen. The magazines are shorter on all the .350's and I do not think the rifle firing them are as smooth operating as the Whelens. It's true that you can have a .350 made into a lighter rifle than a .35 Whelen, but that was probably the "mistake" Remington made when they brought it out, since most people that shot the "little" rifles complained of too much recoil. With a proper recoil pad neither gun is difficult to manage if you regulary shoot '06's. An 8 to 8 1/2 pound Whelen is a pleasure, a 6 1/2 pound in either gun will get your attention off the bench, but is OK in other positions. Considering the possibilty that the .350Mag may not be around very long unless the Rem. 673 becomes popular, makes factory ammo pretty "iffiy" to obtain. At present, only the 200gr factory load in the "green" box is offered. Not a good prospect if that baggage handler sends your ammo to Hawaii when you land in Montreal. Good luck; I don't think you can make a bad choice, since either will give you surprising performance. Mags

When I built my custom medium bore, I got a 35 Whelen. Two more in the mag than the 350 and it feeds like a dream in an unmodified pre-64 M-70. With factory ammo, the 35 Whelen may kick less because it's underloaded but I doubt you could tell. Full-power handloads should recoil identically in rifles of the same weight.

I had a Ruger but sold it because of the 1:16 twist. It shot Nosler and Hornady 250's well, but only if you loaded them hot. Other than the twist, I liked it a lot. If you can live with 225-gr. bullets and/or don't mind the recoil of a hot-loaded 250, the Ruger is a keeper. If they made it in stainless, I'd overlook the twist, buy a case of 225-gr. Nosler Partitions and order another one. Hope this helps, Okie John.

The Remington's are 1/16 twist as well, is that BAD. I don't know jack about twist rates.

My tang safety Ruger was rechambered to 350 Norma Mag. I enjoy the rifle, but kinda wish the previous owner had left it alone.

Didn't Ruger just re-introduce the 350 RM in their 77 Stainless MKII!

bigbull

bigbull, you're quite right... BUT, Ruger has a histroy of introducing things then, etiher NOT building them or taking a couple of year's to do so.

Ruger's 350 is not in the 2005 cat.. i have a 700ks in whelen & love it..

if it matters my pard/ffl guy has a rem 673 that is like new. the guy had the fin and rib removed and the holes filled/barrel reblued. less than a box of ammo through it. might even have leupy r/b on it still.
he wants $550 for it. i kow the guy paid $650 when new and $150 for the work. has an excellent trigger also...
FWIW
woofer

I have a Rem 700 Classic in .35 Whelen and I love it. I use primarily 225 grain bullets, either Nosler Partition, TBBC in Federal ammo or the Sierra BT. All have been extremely accurate. Used the TBBC for most of my hunting and have only had one animal that was not a clean pass through on the shot.

If the ruger 350 rem mag becomes a reality, I think I'll have to get one of those! Is is supposed to come with the iron sights as well? Topped with a leuply 2.5x compact, it would be ideal IMHO. Here's hoping this is one of their proposed new guns that actually hits the shelf.

I have been watching this topic with intrest. I had decided to purchase a Rem 673 in 350 Mg. I just could not get past that stock. It wasn't the color but the shape. It didn't feel good anywhere. Now it will have to be a Remington model 7 or 700 or Ruger M77. It just depends on which one I find first between the 350 and 35 Whelen.

The Remington 700 CDL is available this year in .35 Whelen

I'm not a 35 cal. fan but I would opt for the Whelen inasmuch as it is sans the belt and on 06 brass..can be blow out to Ackley and holds more ammo in the box...If I am going to use a belted case then I want a 350 Norma mag or 338. The 338 being one of my all time favorite rounds.

Short actions? hey that extra 1/4 inch at best does not mean squat to me, if that 14 inch of stroke is a bother then the shooter probably can't chew gun and walk!

Any current .25-06, .270, .280, .30-06 or most '98 mausers as well as Springfield rifles can be rebarreled to .35 Whelen

I agree with the .35 Whelen over the .350 mag like most others here.

Having said that I'd far prefer the .338-06 over the .35 Whelen.

The factor Remington loading is a pussycat. After fiddling with some hand loads I chose a 180 grain max load out of Remington model 673 this fall for white tail deer. Pretty sure that is a 35 Remington bullet. I am impatient and tend to shoot small deer. My wife makes fun of me, but I get deer. Needless to say the 100 lb. spike I shot at 30 yards dropped like he was hit by a Chrysler. Recovered the projectile after it travled through one side, plenty of spine and into the opposite shoulder. Expanded to 0.81" and with mushrooming down past the cannelure. Never fooled with the Wheelen, but the 350 is hell on skinny deer.

Great topic guys,

My 2nd MRC Short Action has a Mag. boltface.
Is it feasable to have the 350 Rem. Mag. throated longer to take advantage of the longer
magazine box(3.125")? If so, how does this affect the
powder capacity as related to the Whelen? This will be my 1st rifle larger than 30 caliber so I figured 35 cal. is as good as any & being
a short action will the 350 RM feed better than
a WSM of some variety? The issue of the belt really doesn't sway me away as the other belted mags in the safe are not giving any problems
with feeding or reloading.
Another issue is barrel length. Will the 350
with a 22" barrel be tolerable in the muzzle blast department? The horror stories of 20" barrels and tooth rattlin' concussion do have my attention. Thanks, Bruce

I just bought a 21" custom shop 350 Rem Mag Encore barrel on ebay. Put together a few hanloads and trudged throught the snow at the range to shoot a few.

Very comfortable to shoot. Now for some decent weather for some real range work with it.

Jimmy Mac,

What is the OAL on your loads & what bullet are ya using? It seems like T/C barrels have longer throats than most factory bolt guns. I also have an Encore with 7-08 rifle&454 Casull pistol barrels.

Anyway, If you do have a little longer OAL than the normal 2.8ish I'd sure be interested in your results. Good Shooting, Bruce

We have a couple of feet of snow on the ground so I just threw together some safe loads to try the barrel out.

The barrel looks like a nice one.
If your interested, I will keep you posted.

i built a 35 whelen on a mauser action a few years ago, shoots great, plan on hunting with it when and if i get a chance to go up north. ruger cataloged a 350rem mag in last years catalog. i ordered one and was told that they have completed the run and mine is on the way, however they are not going to make any more.its a m77 mark 2

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atkinson:
...the shooter probably can't chew gun and walk! ...

---

Seems there is always something of interest to learn on this Board. I've never heard that colloquialism before, but it is indeed interesting.

Hey Steve, I must have missed "what" you plan to be hunting with your rifle. And where you plan to do that hunting. How about filling me in?

I've been a 35cal fan for many years. Had to drag a lot of Deer for people that used them in my youth and then drug a bunch of them for myself while using various 35cal rifles over the years.

My current one is a 350RemMag M7KS with the 20" barrel. BIG MISTAKE with the 20" barrel because it is REALLY LOUD. You absolutely must wear some form of hearing protection while hunting with it. I use the Sonic Ear Valves and that eliminates that concern. But, it really needs as a minimum a 22" barrel.

Concerning "The Belt", it seems to be fashionable to slam on Belted cases. Granted the Belt does take a bit more room in a magazine than a non-Belted case, but I don't see it as that big of an issue as others do. Perhaps it is because of the specific game I hunt, or perhaps those folks "need" the extra shot for their "field of fire" rather than just placing an accurate shot to begin with.

Otherwise, the Belt is right nice to have. If you check Case Head Expansion(as all reloaders should) it allows you to do so with a regular Micrometer instead of needing the Thin Anvil design models necessary for the non-Belted cases.

If you for some wierd reason you choose to chamber a Belted case in one of the rifles known to have pitiful gas handling characteristics, then the Belted cases actually extend the inner web a bit farther forward, so there is less chance of you being blinded. Of course, just sticking with the Remington rifle design eliminates this concern anyhow.

I can agree the 35Whe has the potential to work better with the 250gr bullets. It would be a trade off between the handiness of the 350RemMag Short Action(which is real not imagined) compared to a bit less performance with those 250gr-ers. But, that is really splitting hairs.

I've used a bunch of 180gr Speer Hot-Cor bullets on Deer and found they perform exactly as the other poster mentioned. I really prefer the good old 200gr Hornady Interlock, but it must be put through a shoulder in order for it to work well on Deer. For Hogs and Black Bears, there may not be a better bullet than the 35cal 200gr Hornady in existance.

I've less experience with the 225gr bullets, simply because I didn't need them. But I can see where the Elk, Moose and Brown Bear folks would lean in that direction.

Bottom line is, you can't really go wrong with either the 350RemMag(with it's excellent Belted case) or the 35Whe.

oulufinn,

You were asking about the throat on my Encore barrel. I was fooing around tonight, and I could close the action with the boat tail of a 225 Sierra sitting on top of the case.

Should give me some room in that case to shoot 250's.

JM,

250's should be no problem there... I guess my next step should be to work up some dummy rounds to figure out the best way to take advantage of the 3.125 mag box of the MRC, SA.

Thanks for the info, Bruce

Should be good. I found some 250 partitions, and they seat about 2/3 of the way down the neck.

Hot Core,

I've also had good luck with the 200g Hornady SP. First deer I shot with it was a whitetail doe that was running directly away from me. Entered the stomach just in front of the pelvis (while rear end was in the air) and exited out her mouth.

I've wondered about the Speer 180g but haven't tried it. How fast can you push that bullet and still work well for whitetail?

Have you ever tried the 150g Rem Core Loc on whitetail? How did it hold up and what velocity did you use?

Jimmy Mac,

I believe the 350 RM was designed with freebore to get the best velocity from teh short barrels it was originally chambered for. I know I can't get near the lands on my Rem Classic in 350 RM.

Also, wasn't the twist on the 350 chosen so the user had the option of shooting lead bullets?

I have both a 35 whelen and a 350 Rem Mag, my 350 (actually my third) is built on a mAuser, mag allows 3.25" col, I get 2615 fps with 250 gr Speers. That's a little faster then the same bullet in my whelen, but not much. - Dan

I shoot alot of lead from a 1-14" twist in my 350 Rigby, and it does just fine. I don't think a 1-12" would cause any problems either.

quote:

---

Originally posted by HogWild:
Hot Core,

I've also had good luck with the 200g Hornady SP. First deer I shot with it was a whitetail doe that was running directly away from me. Entered the stomach just in front of the pelvis (while rear end was in the air) and exited out her mouth.

---

The 35cal 200gr PSP Hornady is one of those bullets that just works great. I saw 66 straight 1-shot kills using them in 358Win M99s, 30 some odd years ago by a group of guys I hunted with near Cherry Point, NC.

I do find them at their best when at least one shoulder is included in the shot. They seem to be a good tough bullet and if you just run them through the lungs, they simply don't open as well. I do not ever remember seeing one of them used in a shot like you described, but the penetration does not surprise me.

quote:

---

I've wondered about the Speer 180g but haven't tried it. How fast can you push that bullet and still work well for whitetail?

---

I "believe" the last time I bothered running them across a chronograph that they were clicking along somewhere in the 2850-2900fps velocity range in my 20" barrel. These work GREAT when run through the lungs. Lots of MASSIVE trauma and quick "feet in the air".

quote:

---

Have you ever tried the 150g Rem Core Loc on whitetail? How did it hold up and what velocity did you use?

---

No, never got to try one - yet. And I really don't like to recommend a bullet that I've not killed at least 24 Deer with.

That said, the 150gr Rem PSP Seated to the cannelure sets 0.268" Off-the-Lands in my rifle. Yes, over 1/4" and yet it is one of the most accurate bullets I've ever fired in that rifle. I use a whole lot of H322 to get it going. Had to develop the load from the ground up since I could not locate any load data on it(as well as I can remember). I know you guys get tired of hearing about CHE/PRE, but that is what I used to know when to STOP.

I was at the Range about 12 hours one day and decided to shot the 150gr Rem PSPs just to see how well they would do. I'd shoot one and set the rifle aside. At the end of the day I had 9 shots totally inside a 1" square. I never bothered to see how small the group actually is, and I really should do that. Not saying any of this as a "Brag", just mentioning it because they are so absolutely accurate in "my" rifle.

But, if they shoot as accurately for you as they do for me, I'd suggest sticking one just behind an on-side shoulder so the bullet angles into the off-side shoulder. Once you do that a few times, and see the results, it should be easy to determine if they need to stay in the Lungs or if good old Shoulder-to-Shoulder shots can be taken.

Best of luck to you.

Oulufinn,
Here's another choice for ya! My MRC SA is chambered for .35-.300 WSM, and throated to take advantage of the magazine length. Getting 2700 fps with Speer 250's.
Jerry/AK