The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Boddington picks. 35 Whelen best!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Indeed that would be a great pairing. I once saw a Browning Grade 5 Winchester 1895 set up as a switch barrel with 280 and 35 Whelen barrels. Thought that would be a great combination. I think I like the 25/35 pairing even better. I have long opined I could be entirely happy with a 35 Whelen as my only centerfire big game rifle. I truly love my 400 Whelen but have to be honest, the 35 is a bit more versatile. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Surefire7, Your probably correct, I said that with tongue in cheek more or less and Boddington has a very high level of experience by comparison.. As to the 9.3x62, and my handloads I can shoot a 300 gr. Swift at 2533 FPS and my pet load for my 375 is a 300 gr. bullet at 2512 FPS and both kill DG quite well..I realize I can reach 2600 FPS in the .375..So they are both close enough for "Guvment" work..and I find bullet performance better at 2500 FPS in both calibers.. Ive never loaded the 35 Whelen with the 310 gr. Woodleigh but I would bet it would knock the socks off a buffalo at 2400 FPS (guess) I know and have never owned a 358 Norma Magnum but it should work wonders on DG. Im more into bullet performance than caliber for that matter.. As to the 338-06 vs. 35 whelen, its a push, one has SD and the other has cross section of bullet, and that is the ONLY difference..so take your pick, you can't go wrong. But the bottom line on paper and in the field the 9.3x62 is by far the superior DG caliber and legal in most of Africa BUT ONLY WITH A HANDLOAD AND WITH A LIMIT ON THE ENERGY AND VELOCITY..FACTORY 9.3X62 AMMO FAILS TO MEET THOSE GOALS, BUT WHO'S COUNTING..After all it is Africa.. Additionally: As per this thread I borrowed my original 35 Whelen to test with 310 bullets, and the best I got with a max max load was 2312 FPS average with the borrowed handloads and primers were almost loose but seated.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Surefire, I get close to 2850 out of a Hornady 200 Interlock, but haven't killed anything with it yet. I pretty much use the 250 Partition for everything from goats to wild cattle. | |||
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Doc Great logic and argument. On the spot. But then I have to disagree with you as usual  and that is only because I have a 9.3X62 in a Simson Mauser 98 built before 1912 AND I also have a 280 AI. That pedigree of 7mm'06 / 280 Rem sits well with your 22-250, 25'06 and 257 Roberts. It probably trumps the last two by a fair margin.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Now, THERE's a rifle you don't see every day! LHeym500, congrats on that snag. Quite an interesting story that accompanies your rifle as well. Of all the calibers he could have chosen for his Moose hunt in that Winchester Custom Shop where he worked, he made a 35 Whelen. Hmmmm... | |||
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Sure fire send me an email or iPhone number I will send you a one center hole 4 shot group with that rifle. I almost did not buy this rifle bc it was a 35 Whelen and not a 338 WM or 338/06. | |||
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The gods smiled on you that day. That would have been a big blunder to have let it pass. I'm sure you're happy you 'overlooked' the caliber and went for it. What did you say the barrel twist rate was? | |||
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1:12 according to Winchester and my gunsmith. | |||
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Perfect! Life is good, eh? | |||
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A 4 shot group that small is a 5 shot group that the shooter couldn't bring himself to fire, done that many a time! who would ruin a dime size group in any caliber!!   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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You are exactly right. I could not being myself to risk that 5th shot. It is the size of a nickel. I am happy to send it to anyone. | |||
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For me at least, there's no need to see the pic. It's a 35 Whelen, after all... | |||
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Well at the risk of being gilflurted and stringhaulterd I have to admit that Ive shot some very large animals with the 9.3x62, 338/06, 338 win. and the 35 Whelen, and they worked...but I finally said to hell with it and went to the 375 HH or Ruger, presently the ruger...It sure leaves good blood trails, and short too...it beats the socks off the rest, if the recoil doesn't bother one, mine is a 7.5 lb. gun, points like a boss 20 ga. and doesn't push me around much..I can shoot a elk in the thick stuff in the keyster and stand him on his nose... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I will take a 338-06 over a Whelen any and every day.....  Love the 404 Jeffery. Never been much of a Boddington fan, something about all of his 7 mag writings. | |||
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Boddington is like every other gun writer and he writes whatever he is paid to. I guess .35 Whelen sales are down. | |||
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He doesn't really like the 7mm's. He's more a .270 guy. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Compared to the 277, 284, 308 and 338 caliber rifles, 35 Whelen sales are ALWAYS down. Which leaves lots of ammo for me...  If one can appreciate large caliber bullets, with plenty of knock down power velocity, with little recoil, as I do, the 35 Whelen could be your huckleberry. It is for me! Unless you want to shoot Elk & Moose at 400+ yds. I guess. But you will have to put up with much more recoil. YMMV | |||
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Maybe now, but when I started reading a lot back in the 80's and 90's he was touting the 7 mag hard. | |||
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SD, Not from I've read. I have both old and new copies of his Safari rifles and American Hunting rifles books. The most he ever said that was good about any 7mm was one of his favorite rifles that he killed a bunch of stuff with was chambered in 7RM. Nice rifle but wrong cartridge! He much preferred .270's and .30 calibers to any 7mm. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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One thing to remember gun writers write about what will sell an article. They often whore themselves out. | |||
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35 Whelen sales have never been anything to Marvel over. Writers do make their rounds (no pun intended) writing about different cartridges. I’m solidly in the 9.3x62 camp, but I’ll never say a bad word about the 35 Whelen. There is nothing bad to say about it. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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I too, am in the 9.3x62 camp, especially for my Africa hunting. I've taken both the 35 Whelen & 9.3x62 to Africa on different safaris to be my medium bore. I think in the future, I'll take my 9.3s to Africa, and use my 35 Whelen in NA, mainly for ammo availability in Africa. I really like the 250 gr. in the Whelen and the 286 gr. in the 9.3, so I think that lends the 9.3 more to Africa, where one may run into Buffalo, Elephant, etc. while hunting PG with my medium bore. I am using my Whelen for Elk & Moose here in CO, so I have no worries of bumping Grizzlies. | |||
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I don’t understand the love for the whelan when I can shoot the 338 Winchester magnum with a muzzle brake to 400 yards easily Atkinson, I would like to see you build a 358 Norma one day with brake and Lothar Walther barrel. Others, I agree, the 25/06 should be in every mule deer Arsenal if not wanting to shoot a 7mm Remington magnum, especially if shooting the TTSX by Barnes. | |||
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The Whelan is too slow for 400. A braked 338 Winchester Magnum shooting 1/2”; can sling a 185 TTSX to over 3000 for confident 400 yard hunting. Just gotta wear shooting protection at the bench. Recoil in the 338 is less with a brake than full bore Whelan loads unbraced. Boddington is wasting his time writing about the Whelan unless you prefer to shoot an unbelted standard .473 cartridge of which I would pick the 338-06 with the same 185 TTSX that I shoot in my braked 338 Winchester Mag.!! Cor | |||
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358 Norma has lighter bullet selection than the 375 Ruger. 338 Winchester is the logical choice for moose, elk, deer(185 grain) and less recoil | |||
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While I have both a 338-06 and a 35 Whelen in pre-64 Winchester Model 70s-with their original barrels-indicating accurately re-chamber and re-rifling... the truth is I have killed more moose with a Model 71 in 348 Ackley Improved. In Alaskan bear country, either caliber will work well and both are excellent. BUT, grizzlies are fast animals and a recent fatality in the Wrangell Natl Park, AK. by a grizzly was a hunter skinning out a moose. In the northern dark forests I will take a Model 71 or even an 1886 over any bolt gun because they are faster proven on accurate repeat shots.If a charging grizzly in the twilight is nothing but hair in your scope, good luck. As Elmer Keith stated, dangerous game becomes dangerous at close quarters. The .348 AK Imp is basically a lever- actioned 35 Whelen. Not a bad comparison but rarer than white buffalo. Best to use Swift, Kodiak, or Woodleigh bonded core bullets in any of the above for best results. If you know a bear has taken over your caribou or moose, then a 450 Alaskan is the way to return. The ravens sitting in nearby trees will tell you excitement is on its way. Avatar | |||
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I shot a cow elk this week through the heart with a 35 Whelen and 225 grain Accubond. She was dead within 25 yards, good blood trail, the heart went like a hand grenade. The stats were 2700 fps and 3600 plus foot pounds at the muzzle. I am a believer in the 35 Whelen. I almost did not buy the rifle which is a custom shop USRA Model 70 because it is a 35 Whelen and not a 3338 WM. I am most satisfied. It is my second most accurate rifles. Maybe the most. | |||
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It’s not a matter of bore size but bullet selection. The 338-06 will allow the rugged, accurate and deadly 185 TTSX to 400 yards. | |||
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Another reason to go with a good start at the vx2 by Leupold | |||
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It is both caliber and premium bullet selection. As you get closer to BC and Alberta, one might have change of mind. Large predators abound. Most of my hunting has been successful with deer, elk and moose under 150 yards. The idea of shooting an animal beyond 250 yards is not acceptable. It may be done, but not by me. At over 375 yards, you may hit an elk and never recover the wounded animal. Still or stalk hunting is the classic method alive in the 19th century. Even the Sharps buffalo hunters preferred shots less than 250 yards with their powerful large bore rifles. Opinions on rifle calibers tend to change in grizzly country over open plains with nothing but deer and antelope for many square hundreds of miles. Avatar | |||
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Like most scribes Boddington tripped on his privates when he called the 404 a non magnum, thats just wrong!  Big bores start at the 375 in my book, all else is BS..Why? cuz cousin, its legal for the big 5 is good enough for me, and also because its all BS and don't count for horse apples. The 9.3x62 with maximum hand loads is the equal of of a proper handload in the .375s if you consider a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS proper as both will do that..the PHs prefer the slower bullet as it just works better internally and I agree with that and after seeing the 375 Wby perform, now a monolithic might or might not change my mind on that, don't know,and really don't care, as Im satisfied with the 300 gr. at 2500 FPS.. So IMO the 9.3x62 compares more to the 375 than the 35 whelen, and not calling it oranges to apples, its just more gun IMO..not saying both aren't great calibers, just think were going overboard comparing the 35 W to the 9.3x62, the 9.3 is a step up however.. I base my opinnion mostly on the fact that the best handload I got in my 35 Whelen with the 310 gr. bullet at max was 2300 plus just a tad and that was at max max!... Not downgrading the 35 whelen, its a absolutly great caliber, and I like it for elk, Moose, but feel is a tad light for brown bear, but I wouldn't hesitate to take on a brown bear with it loaded with 250 gr.Noslers or TTSX bullets, and push come to shove I even shoot Cape buffalo with it.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I agree with not trying to make the 35 Whelen a dangerous game magnum. I tried it with 275 grain loads, and only got 2200fps However, I consider it better than the 30/06 and 270 win. My load produces 3642 FPS at the muzzle and drops 17.8 at 400 and 39.2 at 500. The load carries 2229 and 1955 fpe at 400 and 500. I zero 3 inches high at 100 and took the heart of an elk out at 75 yards, so the zero works for me. Caliber relationship to lethality mat not be quantifiable. However, 358 is a substantial step up in caliber from 270 and 30/06. All these factors being increased diameter, increased energy, increased bullet weight, increased momentum, same trajectory as the 30/06, I am ecstatic with the 35 Whelen as a general purpose rifle/cartridge. I named her Devon. | |||
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Heym, Not a bad analogy at all. but I'll take the 9.3x62 over the 35 or 338/06 under most circumstances.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The 35 Whelen is a no brainer. Inside reasonable hunting ranges (400 yards), the 225 grain load from Nosler has the same basic trajectory as a 180 grain 30-06 load and a 143 grain 6.5 Creedmoor load. | |||
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I imagine that every one of us has a favorite or two, but one can't ignore ballistics relating to where and what one hunts. For example, saying that one cartridge is perfect for anything within a certain distance (100-1,000 yards) depends, again, on the statements above. While a certain cartridge is perfect for one person, it does not mean that is perfect to another person. To me at least, all cartridges that are designed around one case (the .30-06), are relatively similar. One may shoot a bigger or faster bullet than the other, but such things don't mean much in real life. | |||
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Now that is funny. 6.5 Creedmore fans will tell you how flat shooting it is. Those same folks will tell you how slow and inefficient the 358 bullets are. Yet, those same folks do not know that relatively stubby 358/225 Accubond from a 35,Whelen shoots just as flat as the 6.5 Creedmore with its high bc 143 grain bullet. | |||
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Agree. I can’t figure out the hysteria with the Creedmoor and the folks that say the Whelen drops like a rock. To illustrate my above point: 6.5 Creedmoor 143 grain eldx factory load: 1.9” high at 100 yards, 7.9” low at 300 yards, and 22.4” low at 400 yards 35 Whelen 225 grain Accubond factory load: 1.9” high at 100 yards, 8.1” low at 300 yards, and 23.3” low at 400 yards 30-06 180 grain Accubond factory load: 1.9” high at 100 yards, 7.9” low at 300 yards, and 22.8” low at 400 yards At 300 yards, the Whelen has 2,421 ft/lbs of energy, the 30-06 has 1,998 ft/lbs, and the Creedmoor has 1,658 ft/lbs | |||
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Congrats on your great shot on your cow Elk with your 35 Whelen! You can look forward to some mighty fine dining. | |||
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Ray, Sure can't argue with your choice of a 375 Ruger cartridge in a 7.5 lb. rifle. I have an African (no muzzle brake) that weighs the same in 375 ruger caliber and it shoots under an inch at 100 yds. with my Leu. 2.5-8 scope. It is indeed a big step up in killing power IMHO: 300 gr. @ 2,660 fps. Really a nice light, powerful cartridge/rifle combo. Only draw backs of course are increased recoil and one less round in the magazine. That is worth it to me if hunting Buffalo, but for my Elk & Moose hunting, I prefer the more 'civilized' recoil of my 35 Whelen, 338-06, and 9.3x62, and don't feel the need for the extra power of the 375ruger. I really love the 375ruger and own (3) rifles in this round, two walnut/blue Africans, and one SS/Lam. African. Kudos to Ruger for making both the round and the rifles. | |||
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